Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Weddell

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Wow, fide, sounds like the person you were having the discussion with was on the defense. I’ve read the book, as well as, Becoming a Parish of Intentional Disciples and Fruitful Discipleship. I don’t remember which one(s) recommended, among other things, starting a Rosary group, so that disciples would have various opportunities available. The books certainly are not focused on the Blessed Mother, but I just assumed that anyone following Jesus would certainly be devoted to His mother. Now that you’ve brought it to my attention, I’ll be on the lookout for anything that might marginalize Our Lady. That simply won’t do.
 
Hi goout, You made a good point. But piety, as I understand it, is a devotion or reverence to God. Isn’t that what the books are all about, to become an intentional disciple of Christ, to become active and on fire, to change lives, to evangelize, and bring people home? I didn’t get the impression that the author was attempting to make anyone feel obligated to do anything they didn’t want to do, but rather to ask God what He wanted them to do. She wrote about discovering our own charisms and using those gifts to glorify the Lord. I believe her point was that many of us hide our Master’s talent in the ground rather than invest it and return it to Him with interest. (Matthew 25:14-30) One could invest the talents by the service of administration, intercessory prayer, volunteering at a soup kitchen, joining a Rosary or prayer group. etc. There are many quiet ways to become an intentional disciple. If one isn’t comfortable with sharing their experience perhaps they can write or be a good role model for others. You’re right, everyone is gifted in different ways. Thats what I loved most about the books. Weddell encourages each of us to discover our own gifts and to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us. The Holy Spirit has something for everyone! 😃 It’s exciting to me. My group wants me to speak at church and tell everyone about whats going on. 😳 I suggested a newsletter, instead. 😁
 
“On the defense” seemed an understatement, to me. It seemed “offensive” in both senses of the word! Especially when the whole thread disappeared in seconds. I was afraid that that might happen, so I carefully kept saving to a file the conversation, for future reference. I perceive a hostility to Marian devotion (as well as other staples of Catholic tradition), as I said, especially among the many new programs presently “on the market” to help parishes awaken the membership to an authentic zeal and fervor. I appreciate the JPII insight posted by MariaChristi above:
MariaChristi said:
I would also quote the following words from St. John Paul II, given in an address, Oct. 30 1982:
… For its birth and growth, apostolic work looks to her who gave birth to Christ, conceived by the Holy Spirit. Where the Mother is, there too is the Son. When one moves away from the Mother, sooner or later he ends up keeping distant from the Son as well. It is no wonder that today, in various sectors of secularised society, we note a widespread crisis of faith in God, preceded by a drop in devotion to the Virgin Mother…
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I would trust this saint’s wisdom on the matter, more than any of these new “experts” presently being paid to guide parishes allegedly into the New Evangelization. So much traditional Catholic wisdom is being left on the shelf, and parish decisions are tending toward “new” programs and packages. That seems presumptuous and foolish, IMHO, but it is frankly easier. Church documents and guidance on the matter (renewal) are plentiful, but call for work and commitment of - and authentic renewal within - parish leadership first, from the pastor on down. And that calls for authentic transformation within, by grace from above.

May God help us! The Church needs authentic renewal and reform - transformation! - how could it be more obvious, as the inner corruption becomes increasingly and painfully visible. Parishes have been trying one “latest” renewal program du jour after another, kicking the can - the problem - down the road each time for another few years, acting as if maybe this latest program will work. We don’t need another program - we need to live in the wisdom of the saints, true to the Lord and attentive, and obedient, to His Spirit. I am afraid too many of us want to hold on to both God and Mammon, hoping maybe the latest “program” won’t interfere with that implicit requirement too much.
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I know what you mean, and the minute I hear anyone dissing on Mary or being nervous of her, I’m off the bus. Had enough of that in the 70s. No Mary, no me.
If this Sherry Weddell person wants to shove Mary in the corner, I’ll never read anything she writes. Stuff like this is why I have a distrust of laypeople pushing movements in general.
 
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Fide, were you having this discussion with Sherry Weddell, herself, or someone who works with her? Just curious.
 
This whole subject is painful enough - I’m sorry, but I don’t want to bring persons into the issue if avoidable; the subject matter is the important thing.
 
In order to give this a fair chance, I tried reading the study guide link.

I read about 10 pages.

It seemed rather Protestant, in that it assumes that Catholics don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus and are just going through some motions that they are taught. This hasn’t been my experience, at least among the Catholics who are still going to church and practicing the sacraments.

Second, it sure uses “Sherry’s” name a lot. Who is this Sherry and why do I care about Sherry’s method for this or that? She’s not a priest or religious person, and it seemed self-promoting, which was a turnoff when the focus is supposed to be on improving our relationship with Jesus, not on putting money in the pocket of this Sherry person.

Can those of you on this thread who are raving about this book explain exactly why you think it is so great? I have to be honest, if somebody at my parish was pushing this book at me, I wouldn’t want to read it either. It seems somewhere between Protestant, patronizing, and promotional of Sherry.

If my parish was making everybody read this, it would just push me farther away from that parish.
 
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I’m not raving about the book, but it is a useful tool. I/we are not using it in a vacuum or as an independent lay movement. I pretty much distrust that type of approach, whatever the focus might be. It gives a good overview and outlines steps that can be taken. I don’t particularly see the strong emphasis on the personal relationship aspect of faith over other aspects. However, that might may be because we are undertaking it with the guidance of a few devout priests. We are also focusing more on those not regularly attending church.
 
That makes sense, especially if the priests are guiding you towards using it for a specific purpose, such as getting a particular group of people to return to active practice.

When there’s no specific focus and these types of things are presented as a “hey let’s all do this and rejuvenate our parish”, it just makes me want to distance myself from anything parish-y.
 
I’ve read her work, been part of online group for a long time.

There is never any “shove Mary in the corner”.

The issue is, there are certain Catholics who feel that a Rosary group at the parish is all that there should be. Rosary and Mass and anyone who wants more is Protestant.
 
If you have never been in a stagnant dying parish, you are blessed.

This topic has been discussed by many people for a long time.

This book is out of print, but, I read it shortly after entering the Church:


Years later I came across this article and it lit a fire under me

www.catholicherald.com

Evangelization before catechesis - Arlington Catholic Herald

Why do you suppose Blessed John Paul II talked about the "new evangelization" and not the "new catechesis"?
www.catholicherald.com www.catholicherald.com

The USCCB has been talking Discipleship for a few years:

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/how-we-teach/new-evangelization/index.cfm

In 2017 this was the focus (the documents that came out of that synod were very good)

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-te...atechetical-sunday/living-disciples/index.cfm
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Can those of you on this thread who are raving about this book explain exactly why you think it is so great?
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I think it does a good job of painting a picture of where ministry and evangelization is currently at in the U.S. Catholic Church today. There are many that assume that those fallen away Catholics who leave in young adulthood will eventually make their way back to the Church once they get married and start having children. The statistics paint a very different picture, though. While some do come back, most leave and never come back.

That fact alone should give us pause. Why are so many that are going through our Catholic schools and religious ed programs leaving and never coming back? I know it weighs heavily on me. I look at the 200 kids in my parish’s religious ed program and realize that, statistically, only 10 of them are likely to continue to practice their faith into adulthood. It’s a very sobering thought.

She goes on at lengths about the 5 “thresholds”. These are sort of the different stages that people might be at in their faith journey. Now, of course, there’s an inherent limitation in trying to categorize something like this, but I do find it useful. Not everyone in the pews (or those who are not there anymore) are in the same place. And it’s going to take different approaches to reach them depending on where they are at.

Sherry is not a priest or religious, but she has a lot of experience going to parishes all over and trying to help them assess their gifts and how to use them. This book is sort of the fruit of those 15 years of experience (in addition to the research done). So, certainly, she’s not an infallible mouthpiece for the magisterium. But I found her experience to be very valuable and it resonated a lot with my experience working in and around the Church.

I never got any sort of “anti-Mary” impression from any of it. I can’t really comment on Fide’s experience.
 
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Part of the problem is a “from one extreme to the other” solution, which only changes the problem to a new problem.
“Rosary and Mass and anyone who wants more is a protestant” is certainly a problem, not the solution.

Thinking that “Rosary and Mass and anyone who wants more is a protestant is THE problem”, is also a problem, and not the solution.

THE problem - IMHO - is a lack of right catechesis and formation in the supernatural life that they [lukewarm Catholics] have already received!

NOT “Converting the Baptized” - The baptized have received the life of Christ! They are not pagans, they do not “need” conversion to Christ! They need to learn how to access the New Life, the supernatural life, that they have in fact received, infused into their souls, at Baptism.

To try to lead Catholics into a [protestant] “born again” experience is a misguided effort from a misunderstood theology and/or erroneous spirituality.
 
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fide said:
“need” conversion to Christ! They need to learn how to access the New Life, the supernatural life, that they have in fact received, infused into their souls, at Baptism.
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Have you been involved as a catechist or leader of adult faith formation? You would be shocked how many are sentimentalized yet have no relationship with Christ or his Church. This is often seen in Confirmation Prep.
 
I began my work in the Church as a DRE, then focused on adult catechesis and formation, including leading RCIA, directing lay ministry formation and deacon formation. I’m now “retired”, leading a Listening to Scripture and Catechism group, and praying. The Church is in a very dangerous place, in her history - very dangerous place. As is the whole world. I hope many are very deeply in prayer for the guidance of the Holy Spirit - our most fundamental need is HIM - we need Him. We need to hear Him, and do all that He tells us, in our Lord Jesus Christ.

As Mary did!
 
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fide said:
I hope many are very deeply in prayer for the guidance of the Holy Spirit - our most fundamental need is HIM - we need Him. We need to hear Him, and do all that He tells us, in our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Amen to that!
 
Well, people have all kinds of extreme opinions (we see that all day on CAF), but I have never in my entire life seen a parish where all they had was a Rosary group and Mass and nothing else. If anything, I’ve had the opposite experience, where the bulletin each week is full of Bible Study this and Stewardship that and you have to hunt around to find where anyone is saying the Rosary at all. Even now I generally have to “find” the Rosary or Mary novena group by showing up at various daily Masses until I happen to hit the one that has the Rosary or Novena happening before or after it. They seem to be publicized by little old ladies’ word of mouth while the parish information page has about 6 adverts for social justice stuff, Sherry Weddell-type programs, and get-togethers.

Yet whenever I look on CAF, I see people all complaining how we don’t do enough fellowship and we don’t do enough Sherry Weddell stewardship stuff and we do too much rosary. If that’s the case, then I shouldn’t be having to play Where’s Waldo through all the fellowship and stewardship stuff to find the people saying the rosary.

And I will be honest with you: I was away from active practice for almost 2 decades and I am motivated to come back by the rosary groups, the Marian devotions, the little old ladies. Not by this stuff which to me does sound Protestant, and kind of weird. I have nothing against Protestants, but I prefer devotions, not “What do you think of Sherry’s idea?” Unless she’s Sister Sherry or Saint Sherry, I couldn’t care less about Sherry Layperson’s idea. I know that sounds harsh, but that’s how I feel.
 
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Thank you for sharing those thoughts. I always appreciate your perspective on things.
 
Everyone is at different places in their spirituality, in their journey and we have different forms of spirituality. It is wonderful that Marian devotions are what touch you and others. We have the annual Divine Mercy service. The same 20 - 30 people will show up for it every year.

Stations of the Cross is another devotion, we used to have 200 people ish on Fridays of Lent. Now, if there are 40 it is a great turn out. I don’t think that means that people no longer think that Christ’s passion is important, they simply do not hold that specific devotion.

I’d rather chew off my arm than to go to hospitality mixer, but, some people need that level fellowship.

St. Pope John Paul II called us to the New Evangelization. Ms Weddell has written some books, many others have written books. We are called to evangelize and to make disciples. Disciples come in every stripe. Some know Scripture backwards and forwards, some can quote the CCC, others will never open a Catechism but pray 5 Rosaries each day, others are enrolled in a Scapular, others are Charismatic. We are not limited to only one, nor are we required to be all of them.
 
Right, and I’m not saying, don’t have a variety.

it’s just that I’ve yet to see parishes where Rosary and stations is all they ever do. Having grown up during an era where many churches were throwing these and other devotions aside as old-fashioned, I’m pleased to be able to find them again. I feel like it’s a special part of Catholicism. I don’t necessarily expect somebody who wasn’t a cradle Catholic to appreciate them, but neither do I like it when they are dismissed or shoved to one side.

If other people are going to actually come back to church based on this stewardship stuff, then fine, whatever works. Just don’t throw away the things that made ME actually come back to church.
 
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