Forming Intentional Disciples by Sherry Weddell

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Tis_Bearself said:
If other people are going to actually come back to church based on this stewardship stuff, then fine, whatever works. Just don’t throw away the things that made ME actually come back to church.
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That’s certainly fair. 🙂 I don’t think that this book is trying to do that. It’s been a few years since I read it last, but I recall it being more about diagnosing the problems. And the main problem she observed was that there are many Catholics who are not intentional about their relationship with Jesus, and we want to help them reach that point.

I didn’t get the impression that she was discounting or being dismissive of traditional forms of piety. If I did, I likely would have noticed because that would have rubbed me the wrong way, too.
 
Thank you @Tis_Bearself and @fide for your continued comments. It helps me understand your and others thinking. The concern of swinging from one extreme to another is real. It is somewhat like saying faith without reason or reason without faith, when both are essential.
 
Hi Fide, I understand. I was just wondering if someone with authority was speaking on behave of the author or not. I’m sorry the conversation was so upsetting.
 
I don’t think the study guide was written by the same author or at least the one I have isn’t.
 
Our book club found it very enlightening as it encouraged us become more active in our spiritual life. We enjoyed it so much we decided to read her other books and continue with the “Called and Gifted” workshop. You can read more about it at the Catherine of Siena Institute’s website. https://siena.org/
Her book challenges Catholics to be more aware of their parish and more concerned about the parishioners. I think it was the wake up many needed. It was good spiritual food for a parish hungry for spiritual growth. No one forced us to read it. In fact, we started reading it about 2 weeks before the rest of the diocese heard about it. We have invited the parish to join our book club but haven’t pushed it. If someone wants to read it and join us, they are welcome.
 
I think one of the best things I like about it is that the approach isn’t to rejuvenate the parish at a parish level, but rather for each of us to understand ourselves better and what gifts God has given us to benefit His kingdom. Once we realize we are called by God to invest these gifts He gave us, we will naturally want to do just that. This, in turn, rejuvenates the parish. It takes each person to grow spiritual before the parish begins to come alive. You can’t force or beg people to join a group or participate out of obligation. This won’t make a parish flourish. But when each parish member realizes that God has something in store for each and wants us to exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit to bring more people closer to Him, they will have that desire to get out of the same old routine and spiritual growth happens.
 
SolaceSoul said:
I think one of the best things I like about it is that the approach isn’t to rejuvenate the parish at a parish level, but rather for each of us to understand ourselves better and what gifts God has given us to benefit His kingdom. Once we realize we are called by God to invest these gifts He gave us, we will naturally want to do just that. This, in turn, rejuvenates the parish.
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That’s nice, and likely some people find it helpful.

Other people, like me, would probably prefer a book by Catherine of Siena.
 
Not wanting to argue but “Born again” really isn’t protestant. Christ said it Himself.

" John 3:1-10

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
SolaceSoul said:
Not wanting to argue but “Born again” really isn’t protestant. Christ said it Himself.

" John 3:1-10

Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
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Exactly - it is not protestant, it is the Truth of Christ that has been followed and treasured since the beginning of Christian Faith and the Church. Protestants did not “discover” Scripture, but they did take it “out of context” - they took Scripture out of the context into which God placed it, namely, the context of His Church. When Scripture is taken out of the context of the whole of Apostolic Tradition - namely out of the Sacred Tradition of the Church, then misinterpretation is inevitable. And not only a loss of the fullness of revealed Truth results in the protestant world, but the inevitable insertion of error, through Scriptural misinterpretations.

When Catholics try to imitate the protestant interpretation of Gospel faith, marginalizing Catholic Sacred Tradition in the process (to protestant evangelical delight), they will not advance in Holy Truth but will deepen interior confusion. I tried to make the point above (post #32):
THE problem - IMHO - is a lack of right catechesis and formation in the supernatural life that they [lukewarm Catholics] have already received!

NOT “Converting the Baptized” - The baptized have received the life of Christ! They are not pagans, they do not “need” conversion to Christ! They need to learn how to access the New Life, the supernatural life, that they have in fact received, infused into their souls, at Baptism.

To try to lead Catholics into a [protestant] “born again” experience is a misguided effort from a misunderstood theology and/or erroneous spirituality.
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Tis_Bearself said:
That’s nice, and likely some people find it helpful.

Other people, like me, would probably prefer a book by Catherine of Siena.
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That’s a wise choice, TB. The saints are trustworthy, and authentically experienced in the life of the Spirit, and the life of prayer, the life of Truth. There are also some good non-canonized spiritual writers who present and organize the wisdom of many saints of our Tradition, showing the oneness of the Faith that they all live, and in a very helpful ( and trustworthy) way. (Examples - Fr. R. Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P., Fr. Jordan Aumann, O.P., to name two)

There can be a problem with judging things by subjective approval (“some people find it helpful”). A student (to use an example from education generally) - a student does not [always] know in advance what he needs to know, nor what is good to know, nor what is good for him to learn on the journey of knowledge. A good teacher will know those things, and will lead the student on the best path for him. A poor teacher may or may not. The student himself, left alone to judge for himself, may prefer candy to substantial nourishing food for many years before he begins to learn from his mistakes.
 
Even though the book does not seem to fully appreciate piety, it does emphasize the fact that faith is not a private matter. Piety should not be the same thing as a private faith.

Those called to quiet discipleship are also called to public witness in whatever way is appropriate to their personality. That can be a real challenge.
Challenge is good.
 
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That is exactly what the book talks about. Throughout the book, the author states that Catholics have already received the Holy Spirit through the sacraments that we need only to use the gifts to grow spiritually. Our Catholic faith is a life long journey that does not end with Confirmation. But the majority of the time, thats when we stop learning about our faith.
 
Can you tell me what gifts, or what kind of gifts, you are speaking of?
 
I did not read the entire book, but I appreciated its recommendation that people in leadership/apostolate/ministry (disciples) should be interviewed to find out their viewpoints and where they are in their personal religious journey. Often, the person least suited for a role is the one put in charge and they stay there for years. No one in entitled to certain positions, not even volunteers.

Often people are afraid to hurt someone’s feelings so they don’t have those difficult conversations - they do not interview the people serving in the roles at church to find out where they are and what they believe. It seems like a mini-inquisition.

Or maybe some just assume we all feel and believe and want the same thing regarding our faith, so there is no need to discuss it. But just look at CAF threads, for example, and you will see how divided people are.

I think people volunteering at church (disciples) can be asked to discuss where they are in their faith life, and the discussion can be fruitful if the interview is done in a kind and tactful way, seeking understanding and not seeking fault with the person (disciple). Perhaps clarity and honesty can help to foster eventual unity.

Jesus prayed we would be united and hopefully one day we will all feel and believe and want the same thing.
 
Sure Fide, I was referring to all the gifts of the Holy Spirit we receive in Baptism and Confirmation.
 
(part 1)
SolaceSoul
6h
A good summary of the book can be found here at Our Sunday Visitor 1
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I found a copy of the book on a shelf in my parish, and took some time to refresh my memory of it. Some time ago our pastor loaned the book to me, and after reading it then I returned it to him. I had pretty much put the whole concept out of my mind, especially after I received the firm negative response on their forum to my question re: Marian devotion - to hear that it is an “optional” spirituality which is best kept personal and in the background.

I found very little in her book about the most important spiritual gifts, of the Holy Spirit - namely those found in Isaiah 11:2-3, which are infused with sanctifying grace at Baptism and are crucial to our personal sanctification and salvation. Instead, I found predominant concern with those gifts called “charisms”, or “charismatic gifts”, or “Graces Gratis Datae” (which are “non-sanctifying graces”). On the Catherine of Siena Institute website, I find their explanation of the difference:
There are gifts of the Holy Spirit that we are given to keep and gifts we are given to give away. The traditional “seven gifts of the Holy Spirit” and the “fruits” of the Spirit are gifts given to us to keep. They are part of our inner transformation as Christians and provide the inner “Christlikeness” necessary for the effective use of our charisms (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1830-1832). Charisms, on the other hand, are given to us to give away, and are one of the ways God continues to enter the wolrd through our assent and cooperation. They always benefit other people.
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What is reproduced above is true, but I find curious and troubling their decision NOT to focus on what does “provide the inner ‘Christlikeness’ necessary” - namely, the graces and gifts infused at Baptism - but rather to focus on “non-sanctifying” charisms, or “Graces Gratis Datae”, which may benefit others.
(see part 2 below)
 
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(part 2, continued from part 1 above)
Listen to the comparison of the two very different kinds of grace from one of my go-to experts on spiritual theology, Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange:
If sanctifying grace is the seed of eternal life in us, what follows as a result? First of all, that sanctifying grace, called “the grace of the virtues and the gifts,” is “much more excellent,” as St. Thomas says, than the graces gratis datae, like the gift of miracles, that of tongues, or prophecy which announces a contingent event. These graces are, so to speak, exterior; they give us signs of the divine life, but they are not themselves the divine life shared in us.
Now, it is from the grace of the virtues and the gifts received by all at baptism, and not from graces gratis datae and extraordinary graces that, as we have seen, the infused contemplation of the mysteries of faith proceeds. This contemplation is an act of living faith, illumined by the gifts of understanding and wisdom. It is not, therefore, an essentially extraordinary favor like prophecy or the gift of tongues, but is found in the normal way of sanctity.
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Again,
As St. Thomas [Aquinas] shows [see the Summa - IIa, IIae, Q 111, a 4,5], sanctifying grace and charity are much more excellent than these charisms; the former unite us immediately to God, our last end, whereas these exceptional gifts are directed chiefly to the benefit of our neighbor and only prepare him to be converted, without giving him divine life.
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I would much rather see programs to help Catholics grow in sanctifying grace, and thus in holiness, rather than immediately get into ministry trying to apply charisms to others. How can we “give away” what we hardly have ourselves? A disciple is first a learner, before he is an apostle, sent to others.
 
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I read the summary.

It seems a bit…basic. Is this book meant for people who are brand new Catholics or something?

Most people I know who are serious about their Catholicism are already at Stage 4, at least.
 
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