Fornication In Todays World

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Adoni65 said:
But isn’t that what marriage is about as well? Vows are an exchange. I promise her something and she promises me something.
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No, marriage is not like that. You give the other person 100 percent of yourself. She gives you 100 percent of herself. And you just keep on giving.

It’s not a case of, “I do ABC for you and you’re expected to do ABC for me.”
 
That is true, however, I guess I forgot to mention the part where they now believe that sex is important in a relationship outside of marriage as well. How would you respond to that?

Yes. I am a confident man. I know what I want and I know what I want in my partner, but I’m starting to think my ideals are unrealistic in today’s society.
 
This is very difficult, not for just today’s generation, but for all generations.

Sexual desire is strong and unless you both have your convictions grounded and in line with each other, you(not the OP, but all humans) will probably not get through the temptation.

Catholic teaching is the ideal, but to live up to it, you both have to have the conviction that the teaching is correct.

As a priest told my bride to be and myself over 45 years ago, “use your conscience.”

Jim
 
Bishop Barron recently discussed this and said marriage is not two but three - it is two people who together demonstrate their love for God. He said “I have couples come to me who want to get married and ask them why do you want to get married? And they will tell me ‘we love each other very much’ or ‘we want to spend rest of our lives together’ etc, but I tell them that’s not sufficient. To truly want to enter sacrament of marriage you , as a couple, are entering a compact with God, where the two of you together daily demonstrate your love for God through your actions…”
 
Adoni65 said:
That is true, however, I guess I forgot to mention the part where they now believe that sex is important in a relationship outside of marriage as well. How would you respond to that?
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Avoid such women. It’s obvious that they place no value on chastity.
Adoni65 said:
Yes. I am a confident man. I know what I want and I know what I want in my partner, but I’m starting to think my ideals are unrealistic in today’s society.
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Not really unrealistic. There are no shortage of Catholic women out there.
 
Adoni65 said:
they now believe that sex is important in a relationship outside of marriage as well.
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“They” is a pretty vague term.

This forum is chock full of both men and women complaining that there are not any Catholics around for them to date. Seems that there are, folks are simply either looking in the wrong place.

Start focusing on becoming the man that will be sought by practicing Catholic women.

Also, work on the package, be well groomed, keep your hair in good shape, your skin clean. Dress well, take along someone who is a snappy dresser to help shop. Clothes clean, not rumpled, invest in good shoes. Get a manicure. Get your teeth cleaned at the dentist regularly. Manners, set up straight, practice your handshake.

All of these little things go to becoming the best version of yourself.
Adoni65 said:
Yes. I am a confident man.
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Some of the respondents here are women, some of us have lived on this earth for half a century, believe me when I say in all charity, your posts come across as insecure. You can mature and grow out of it.
 
Step back and take a look at the bigger picture. Ask God to help you see with your heart and eyes.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
You give the other person 100 percent of yourself. She gives you 100 percent of herself. And you just keep on giving.
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This expression always makes my smile. I can just visualize cutting off my right hand pinkie and present it to my spouse. Then she does the same. Now we are both crippled and have a useless extra finger… and then we both continue… the picture is gross.

By the way, if you already gave everything - 100 percent - then how can you keep on giving?

By the way, the correct phrase nowadays is not fornication, it is “friendship with benefits”. 🙂
 
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Adoni65 said:
But isn’t that what marriage is about as well? Vows are an exchange. I promise her something and she promises me something. That sounds pretty quid pro quo to me. For the most part I believe in giving without expecting anything in return, however, this is the one area I have trouble with. Just doesn’t seem right to me.
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Yeah, but you’re not promising virginity. In fact, once married that’s the first thing to go!

You promise to love each other and care for each other.

You also have to remember that you waiting for marriage is not about the other person, but simply what you should be doing. If you’re successful in resisting temptation to sexually sin, that is a very good thing. But it’s no use to anyone if you also haven’t matured enough to see that it’s your soul you are protecting by doing this.
 
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Adoni65 said:
they now believe that sex is important in a relationship outside of marriage as well. How would you respond to that?
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Tell them, "Well, I disagree. I don’t think that’s what God wants, and it’s not what I want either. If you want sex outside marriage, then I’d have to say that goes strongly against my principles as a good Catholic, and we probably should not date each other then. I hope you’d reconsider your position, as I like you and have concern for your soul. "

Honestly if I’d met a man who had been honest with me like that when I was young and single, I would have respected that. I don’t know if a relationship would have developed, but it would have gotten my attention and respect because most men are just anxious to have sex with young women, unless they find the girl unattractive, so young girls learn to respond in the way men expect.
I never met such a man when I was young, unfortunately. Maybe you could be the rare case who stands out in a crowd.
 
I already do all of the things you just mentioned. Not to toot my horn or anything, but I’m a very handsome and well educated man. I’m also into bodybuilding and sports. Pretty well rounded. Once again…not to toot my horn.

As I said. I am confident, but people make it hard to trust because not everyone has the same values as myself.
 
Adoni65 said:
Yes. I am a confident man. I know what I want and I know what I want in my partner, but I’m starting to think my ideals are unrealistic in today’s society.
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If Jesus had that attitude, we’d have no Church, right?

Isn’t there a passage in Gospel (someone help me out) that says “blessed are you who when people revile you and say all manner of things against you for my sake, for great is your place in heaven?” and another that says "woe when everyone approves of you’? These verses are screaming at us NOT to do what you’re suggesting - to have sex cause everyone else is doing it and to feel calm when people mock us because we’re waiting because we’re Catholic
 
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IQ170 said:
This expression always makes my smile. I can just visualize cutting off my right hand pinkie and present it to my spouse. Then she does the same. Now we are both crippled and have a useless extra finger… and then we both continue… the picture is gross.

By the way, if you already gave everything - 100 percent - then how can you keep on giving?
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Because 100 percent of the person you are when you say “I Do” is not 100 percent of the whole person you will over your whole life of 5 more years, 10 more years, 25 more years, 50 more years.

There are going to be new ways to give and new parts of yourself to give as time goes by.

I can understand if you think it’s a fluffy or gross simile but when you are married, this is what goes on.

Catholic teaching does not support “Friendship with Benefits”. And as someone who had a lot of “Friendship with Benefits” when I was young, it’s a bad idea. For one thing, it is a huge adjustment when you have to be friends with somebody of the opposite gender but you can’t have the “benefits” because they are married to or otherwise committed to someone else, or because they’ve decided they don’t want to be having sex with their “friends” any more. It’s a somewhat immature behavior and many if not most people grow out of it. For another thing, there are a whole lot of people out there who are only interested in the “benefits” and couldn’t care less about being your “friend” otherwise.
 
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Unless you’re in a committed relationship with another, sexual relations must be off the table

Sexual relationships within a committed relationship, ideally marriage, are for the expression of love, first. Then an openness toward life, and this of course logic must be used here.

Learn to have sex with the person, rather than with a body. It’s what God intended.

Jim
 
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I mean this in the nicest possible way - I think you’re a mixture of downhearted and immature. And truly, I don’t mean to offend you with that. Virginity is clearly a big deal to you when looking for a partner. But for yourself, you want to throw it away in case you are “gypped”? That’s just not logical.

I suggest you reassess the social circles you hang around in. I think you should also talk to your Priest about this issue. Consider for yourself why virginity is such a big deal.

And seriously, don’t have sex just because you want to in some way avenge your future partner for not waiting for you. Aside from any religious teaching, it won’t make you feel any better about the fact you can’t find a partner who, for whatever reason, has had sex before.
 
As a former 26 year old male in similar situation these are just some questions I’ll throw out, don’t answer them publicly if you don’t want but consider them
  1. who are 5 people you spend most time with? what are their values? They don’t have to be Catholic but I believe there is a law that says my values will tend to approach the average of the 5 people I spend most time with
  2. what do you expose yourself to? what kind of TV shows? IN today’s culture many TV shows would be considered soft porn decades ago (e.g. Game of Thrones). Porn sites are 3 of top 8 on internet. Be very careful what you allow into your bubble. If you’re tempted at porn, then install a porn blocker on all your devices and have a friend install a password
  3. where do you go to meet women? bars? coffee places? church? dating sites? obviously bars may not be best place. nothing wrong with other 3 but even there I had to be careful since many times I’d meet a woman I was physically attracted to, we’d go out, after a few dates I realized she was NOT Catholic nor shared any Catholic values, yet by then my physical attraction was so great it was hard to stop going out. Try to find out her values first before you go out. I think you know what I mean.
  4. Very important: do you have guy friends you can trust who will call you out, particularly Catholic ones? I didn’t for some time and because of that I had nobody really to hold me accountable. My non-Catholic guy friends really wouldn’t say “what are you doing?” when they say me dating someone that was clearly not in line with my values, since some of them didn’t share those values. But after I had some Catholic guy friends, they would and after dating one girl a couple of times, they’d say “Ok , listen up - this girl is trouble, STAY AWAY” and I honestly didn’t see it because I was so enamored with her beauty. I think you know what I mean. We need these outside objective third parties. Priests are good too but obviously don’t see us as much as friends.
 
Downhearted? Yes. Immature. I believe not. I am planning on talking to a priest this week. Thank you. It’s a big deal because it shows one has self-control. They truly believe EVERYTHING The Church teaches, and because it gives reassurance that the likelyhood of them cheating is low.
 
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