Fr. Corapi Responds to Some of His Order's Charges

[scoobydoo6v92]

What really bothers me is that the way he treated me. How many others did he offend? I can get past the fact IF he had sexual relations with that woman. sound familiar? I can get past the fact he wanted “toys” and the trappings of this world. We are human and will fall to sin. But the real fact of the matter is that he is disobedient to his order his superiors and the Church!! and he is leading others astray. I don’t know if he’s had sex misused the sacraments or did anything. My opinion is that he must have done “something” or he would not have done the black sheep dog poo that he is doing now. Also I have heard that his order wanted to rien in all the priests and bring them in comunnity and that msut have been 5 or more years ago and he wanted NO part of that. I think that is the root of the problem. He wants toys and money and all the trappings of fame. That is what I have a problem with and that is evident by his behavior on the videos and that stupid new site of his. He has imploded and hopefully his sycophants will soon realize he can care LESS for anyone BUT himself. I hope his sycophants will get real and turn to Christ. Corapi is not following Christ. He is an egotistical arrogant nasty greedy person and that is what I hate about him.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hello - this is my first post here!

Perhaps I can shed a little light on this sheepdog / wolf concept:

militarygear.com/asp/2008/02/09/sheep-wolves-sheepdogs/

This link references the original concept from Lt. Col. Grossman.

The concept is generally used by pro-gun folks to describe their affinity to protect themselves and their families.

The sheepdog protects the sheep, those who are incapable of unwilling of protecting themselves, from predators, who are described as wolves.

Given Corapi’s affinity for guns, and the fact that he lives in Montana, where this logic is readily practiced, I would logically assume that he has adopted this Second Amendment philosophy to describe himself.

It is a theory that I believe to be simple, logical, and applicable!

I am a Second Amendment supporter, and a gun owner, but I always try and keep everything in the proper perspective.

J Heath

I think you are on to something here. One of John Corapi’s blog posts on the BSD website contains similar language to the

From BSD.us

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

“Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.” This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.
Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

“Then there are the wolves,” the old war veteran said, “and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy.” Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

“Then there are sheepdogs,” he went on, “and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.”

From your link

Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident.†This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

Then there are the wolves and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy. Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

Then there are sheepdogs and I’m a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf.

 

[jwinch2]

I would also say that his superiors had no business in turning public the dirty laundry in the Church. The Church is an independent institution in itself and do not need public help to sort it out its problems. this is just more scandal for the Church. it seems to be a habit now and days for clericals to run to the ungodly world for help. Coursed is the man who seeks the council of the ungodly.

I don’t know about you all but as for me I sense that more and more leaders of the House of God acting with the mind of the ungodly world instead of seeking the council of God.

Brother JR had a very good post on this topic a while back. (bold emphasis mine)

JReducation:

…he complied with what the Church demands of him. It is the moral and legal obligation of every major superior to protect his community, whether it be a religious community or a society of apostolic life, as is the SOLT. If a person leaves the community quietly, the superior would be indiscrete and even immoral to speak about the person’s problems in a public fashion.

However, when the person illegally and publicly abandons the community and publicly charges the community with wrong-doing, the superior has a moral duty to reveal the facts, as best he knows them, in defense of his community. He must place the welfare of the community over the individual. The community has to be protected as any family has to be protected from a child who is angry and is making allegations that are damaging.

Also, his superior did not give him permission to file a civil suit. Father Corapi never said that his superior granted such permission. He said that he received the advice from the founder. The founder of the SOLT is no longer their superior. Since they are not an order of friars or monks, the founder ceases to have authority once he steps down from office. The successor become the legitimate and legal authority.

He is acting within the moral and canon laws of the Church. We can say that he could have worded things differently. Heck, all of us can always go back and soften something we’ve said or restate it so that it’s not so shocking.** But he had an obligation to his community to make a public statement. The community has the right to demand that the major superior do so. That is the right of the professed members of the society. They have a right to be protected by their superior from allegations that are damaging to them, if such allegations are unjust.** A superior’s job is not only to govern, but also to protect the community.

…That’s how seriously Catholic tradition takes the role of a superior toward his community. It is not his job to protect us. It is his job to protect his sons and daughters. It is the job of the local bishop to protect the laity. Superiors work with him to make this happen.

The superior of SOLT must feel that the allegations made by Father Corapi towards SOLT were unjust and that he had a need to respond to those allegations since they were made in a public fashion. Had the allegations been made privately then it would have been out of bounds for SOLT to respond publicly. I think it is an interesting point that Brother makes that the members of SOLT have the right to demand that the Major Superior protect the good name of their society.

Its hard to know what the members of SOLT are going through with all of this but I think it is fair to state that they have to be hurting, both at what one of their beloved brothers is going through and the damage which is being done to the good name of their order. If you check their website, you will see that they are involved in many good ministries throughout the world. How sad that some of that work could be tainted by this scandal or even that donations or vocations might go down because of it.

 

[Shoshana]

LOL … and how many times have Fr. Corapi’s (alleged) sins been brought up on these threads…?.. Can anyone count that high ?

“Untruthful” is an interesting choice of word – synonymous with “dishonest” , and close cousin of “mendacious” and “liar” .

Furthermore, “rehashing Father’s sins just to ‘relish in them’” are totally your words – not mine . My words are … which has been happening and is exceedingly obvious for anyone who knows how to read, and who has been reading these threads.

So in one sense, we are indeed asking the same question:

In large part, the repetitiveness can be attributed to the internet setting – but I believe that it should be precisely this which call us to be all the more vigilant… to not keep repeating it over and over again because of the volatitlity.

What is “truthful” is that I made no inference as to what the intentions of anyone repeating these (alleged) sins might be - you did . What I wished to point out is the corrosiveness of repeating a priest’s sins : to the soul of the one repeating, to the priest in question and to the ministerial priesthood at the heart of our Holy Catholic faith ; and this regardless of anyone’s intentions – it’s still corrosive.

It appears a little rash , in my limited opinion, to claim that certain members are in denial. I think I would’ve stopped at saying someone wasn’t totally informed instead. Claiming a fellow member is in denial presumes to have access to their inner workings ; it’s pronouncing a diagnosis. I can’t even claim to have entire access to my own inner workings personally.

In my previous post partially quoted and referred to above , there was also a request not to put labels on people – not to classify fellow members – particularly because these type of comments extend to other individuals, and are often based on erroneous concepts – on jumping to the wrong conclusions… as was demonstrated.

Here is another example from earlier in the thread:

In my opinion this is misleading … and about a fellow member . If by “reaching at straws” this person means “desperate” , then it would almost appear condescending. I’ve read Shoshana’s posts and I believe their focus is not so much on Father Corapi’s wound as it is on the wound to the ministerial priesthood and on the way some of the posts on this and previous threads have been exacerbating that wound. Shoshana isn’t defending a belief in Fr. Corapi (that is a presumptuous thing to say) … wanting to “defend the ministerial priesthood” would be a potentially clearer perception.

That being said, I really don’t have the temporal or emotional outlay to continue with this thread. Refrain from reading or commenting any further is probably the best recourse… Besides , who knows,…… maybe that will mean at least one less posting or repetition of Fr. Corapi’s (alleged) sins.

Merci. I think it is pointless to repeat but like I have said already, that my great distress is not only that we have lost another priest but also that his actions are continuously being hung out to dry. We have no right to do that. He is still a priest no matter what he has done. I am grateful for the gift of priesthood, and when we lose one…IT IS DEVASTATING! No matter if it is a diocesan priest or Corapi. No matter the sin involved…we lost a bishop who walked away from our diocese (with the pope’s approval) and that also DEVASTATED ME. But I can assure you there was a lot of tongues wagging.

The motivation applied to me was wrong…and this is the pattern of this thread. Fr Wade Menezes’s video that Catholic Fireman posted also says a lot. Gossip is that which is said that has no right be said, whether it is true or not.

Especially a priest. But if you find comfort in being so intellectually right, so be it. It certainly sounds like some of you are lawyers. In some kind of self-appointed court.

To conclude:

• I am hurting that we have lost another priest
• I am hurting that the priesthood has once again been marred for now
• I am a loving child of the Church
• My faith has never been trusted in a priest, no matter how holy. Applying to be a carmelite would certainly put this into perspective.
• I, we, have no right as a lay person to gossip about a priest. I have taken my example from saints. We will have to render an accounting to our Lord that we have intellectually continued to say all the things that have been said., even with the motivation of ‘helping’ others. I will continue to take the high way…
• I have never criticized SOLT or the bishop in question.
• Is this clear? I hope so…

 

[J_Katherine]

John Corapi acknowledged that he had lifted the sheepdog imagery from Lt Col Grossman’s article–after others noted that it was the source. He then included the entire article in one of his BSD blogposts/audio messages. (I would be interested in whether he received permission to do so, as someone who is so dedicated to preserving his own intellectual property rights through litigation.) It is one more example in a long line of Corapi’s identifying with and appropriating militaristic literature and behavior, from his original (later emended and recently scrubbed from the Internet) claims to have served as a Marine or Green Beret in Vietnam, to his rewriting of the Special Forces manual for his presentations on spiritual warfare, to his wearing unearned military regalia, such as the Special Forces badge or Army chaplain’s crosses on the lapels of a Special Forces night camo shirt, on or over his clerical garb in videos. It is a literary device that has served him well with his audiences, and apparently one that he finds personally appealing as it echoes his preferred lifestyle of sport hunting, gun collecting, etc. I do think his My Mother Wears Combat Boots line may be original, however, and it’s very clever. I hope she is applying them with loving firmness to his khaki-clad, Harley riding b*tt right now.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I do think his My Mother Wears Combat Boots line may be original, however, and it’s very clever. I hope she is applying them with loving firmness to his khaki-clad, Harley riding b*tt right now.

 

[Carolyn_Widhalm]

Judas turned from Jesus.
Peter denied Him.
I pray that Fr. Corapi will follow Peter’s example. I believe with all my heart that God is in control.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Judas turned from Jesus.
Peter denied Him.
I pray that Fr. Corapi will follow Peter’s example. I believe with all my heart that God is in control.

He also gave us free will.

 

[J_Heath]

John Corapi acknowledged that he had lifted the sheepdog imagery from Lt Col Grossman’s article–after others noted that it was the source. He then included the entire article in one of his BSD blogposts/audio messages.

Ah, my apologies, as I was unaware that he had done this.

Regarding the Combat boots analogy, it was an insult amongst children many years ago to tell someone that ‘Your mother wears combat boots’.

Thanks for correcting me! I guess that my observations were correct, but late to the party!

Salutations!

 

[duggan5]

cecelia81 it was one of mr. coropis youtube rfec ent videaos about aweek or more ago.

 

[duggan5]

Cecelia81 i came up against that satanic ritual by a teacher in a middle school who attended a satanic conference and tried to infiltrate 15 year old students who were opposing her and satan worship, i went to principal to assist the young students.

 

[sojo]

Cecelia81 i came up against that satanic ritual by a teacher in a middle school who attended a satanic conference and tried to infiltrate 15 year old students who were opposing her and satan worship, i went to principal to assist the young students.

 

[Lucky_Scrunchy]

And what happened?!!

 

[J_Heath]

qui est ce J Heath I think you are on to something here. One of John Corapi’s blog posts on the BSD website contains similar language…From BSD.us “One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me”:

Ah, very interesting!

Seems that Corapi has tried to personalize this by insinuating that the discussion actually took place with him, when it looks like the original material has been plagiarized.

Just my thoughts, but it looks quite interesting to me!

I have been on enough pro-gun boards over the years to quickly recognize the thought process.

The ‘freedom isn’t really free’ logic from his website also falls into this same train of thought.

Grace to you!

 

[J_Katherine]

Ah, my apologies, as I was unaware that he had done this.

Regarding the Combat boots analogy, it was an insult amongst children many years ago to tell someone that ‘Your mother wears combat boots’.

Thanks for correcting me! I guess that my observations were correct, but late to the party!

Salutations!

No apologies necessary; I was providing background to verify your intuition.

And yes, the powerful point of Corapi’s application of that phrase to the Blessed Mother (if indeed it was his application) is the transformation of the old insult.

 

[cecilia97]

Hello - this is my first post here!

Perhaps I can shed a little light on this sheepdog / wolf concept:

militarygear.com/asp/2008/02/09/sheep-wolves-sheepdogs/

This link references the original concept from Lt. Col. Grossman.

The concept is generally used by pro-gun folks to describe their affinity to protect themselves and their families.

The sheepdog protects the sheep, those who are incapable of unwilling of protecting themselves, from predators, who are described as wolves.

Given Corapi’s affinity for guns, and the fact that he lives in Montana, where this logic is readily practiced, I would logically assume that he has adopted this Second Amendment philosophy to describe himself.

It is a theory that I believe to be simple, logical, and applicable!

I am a Second Amendment supporter, and a gun owner, but I always try and keep everything in the proper perspective.

J Heath

The problem, though, is that Corapi hasn’t made clear who are the sheep and who are the wolves. Are we (the faithful) the sheep? Which faithful? Catholics, all Christians, only Corapi’s “fans”?? Who are the wolves? The “world”? The forces of evil? The bishops who supposedly wish for Corapi to “lay down and die”??

And why do we need a sheepdog, when we have the Triune God, His Church, and His Bishops to shepherd us?

I just don’t understand. The sheep and the shepherd are such common symbols, I can’t imagine that Corapi would use them without knowing he would raise these questions.

I don’t like it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

No apologies necessary; I was providing background to verify your intuition.

And yes, the powerful point of Corapi’s application of that phrase to the Blessed Mother (if indeed it was his application) is the transformation of the old insult.

I was only recently made aware of this statement about his “Mother” wearing combat boots. I found it troubling and rather irreverent. Unorthodox, at the very least. Cavalier and without regard for Mary’s sacredness, at the most. Maybe treading into blasphemous.

I guess the militaristic imagery is his “shtick,” but it’s funny that he wants to be the solider who goes AWOL and gets away with it. Soldiers, the ones who protect us, also have a chain of command that they answer to, and if they go AWOL they are imprisoned. Because they are stealing US property (themselves) as well as being insubordinate and disobedient. In a way, Corapi is Church “property,” since he took his vows willingly. And his life is not really his own…but that’s certainly not the way HE sees it. He is moving “onward,” ending an “era,” “drawing a line in the sand.” He’d end up in Leavenworth KS if he did this as a soldier.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Ah, very interesting!

Seems that Corapi has tried to personalize this by insinuating that the discussion actually took place with him, when it looks like the original material has been plagiarized.

Just my thoughts, but it looks quite interesting to me!

I have been on enough pro-gun boards over the years to quickly recognize the thought process.

The ‘freedom isn’t really free’ logic from his website also falls into this same train of thought.

Grace to you!

I have not been to pro-gun boards before you provided this link. This is definitely plagiarizing. He doesn’t credit the original writer, just says “One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:” Then it’s copy/paste, changing the sequence of some paragraphs.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd, there is no mention of Jesus using sheep dogs.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

as an orthodox one thing seems not to come up here in discussion is how he is effecting his previous followers and his responsibilty to set a good example for souls. he must be unaware of the dangerous vertical sign of cross he was using on an earlier youtube as that is part of a sata nic ritual so i am assuming he must be unaware of that.

When you write “vertical sign of cross” do you mean an upside down cross? And if so, where is that shown in a video, please be specific and provide a link!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have not been to pro-gun boards before you provided this link. This is definitely plagiarizing. He doesn’t credit the original writer, just says “One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:” Then it’s copy/paste, changing the sequence of some paragraphs.

Jesus is the Good Shepherd, there is no mention of Jesus using sheep dogs.

On the BSD website, Corapi does give Lt. Col. Grossman credit for the article. The line, “One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:” is actually within the article written by Lt. Col. Grossman, so he was repeating something told to HIM. For all we know, this could be an urban legend and Lt. Col. Grossman doesn’t even exist.

But the imagery only fits within a military or law enforcement context. It most certainly does NOT fit and apply to a Catholic priest. Methinks Corapi has been hanging around with the wrong sort of company…