Fr. McBrien on 60 Minutes

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I think I need to explain my opinion about Father McBrien’s comment on birth control that he made on 60 Minutes last night. First of all, the subject of this thread is Father McBrien’s comments. If you agree or disagree about the Church’s teaching on birth control, that would be more appropriately covered on another thread.

Here is a summary of what I’ve been hearing from the secular media for the past 25 years, and I have been getting pretty sick of it:

“The Pope arrived in (name of city) yesterday. It was a disappointing crowd. Only 100,000 people showed up. 150,000 were expected. The Pope has come to visit a Church in crisis. Many Catholics don’t agree with the Pope on birth control. In fact, right here in the crowd, we have a Roman Catholic who says she doesn’t agree with the Pope on birth control. Mrs. (Jones, Smith, Brown), can you explain to us your objection regarding the Pope’s teaching on birth control?”

So, anyway, I’m sitting there watching thes reports that have been going on for the last 25 years, and I’m thinking, “Excuse me! Just what did the Pope say in his homily during his visit??? Please, could you just report the news and tell us what is going on with the Pope’s visit?”

That is precisely why I thought Father McBrien’s comment on birth control was so clever. He stopped the news media in their tracks!
 
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st_ignatius:
So, I guess what you are trying to say then is that “Father” McBrien’s credentials are more and better then those of the Holy Father?
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Yup! Better than the Pope, the Cardinals, all the world’s Bishops, 2000 years of Tradition, past Popes. and ultimately Jesus Himself. :banghead: They also referred to him as the eminent theologian. :rolleyes:

Actually, theologians do not have “teaching” authority. It stops at the Bishops and he is not a Bishop.
 
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st_ignatius:
So, I guess what you are trying to say then is that “Father” McBrien’s credentials are more and better then those of the Holy Father?
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Great point. Apparently, the highly qualified McBrien is better educated than the Holy Spirit.
 
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alfredo:
I was wondering what your credential are and what are the qualifications of the other people who are criticising Father Richard McBrien?
I noticed that Father McBrien has some rather serious and heavy credentials.
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Heterodox, dissident, heretical opinions of a higher order …big deal. What is your point? This theologian priest is a blight on the Church and is long overdue for being swepted away with the rest of the chaff.
 
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felra:
What is your point? This theologian priest is a blight on the Church and is long overdue for being swepted away with the rest of the chaff.
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My point is that I don’t see that you have the qualifications to call for the removal of Father McBrien. I don;t see where Father McBrien has in any way been censured by the Catholic hierarchy. He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area. For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
 
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alfredo:
My point is that I don’t see that you have the qualifications to call for the removal of Father McBrien. I don;t see where Father McBrien has in any way been censured by the Catholic hierarchy. He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area. For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
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So then, again, what you are saying is that “Father” McBrien is smarter and more qualified then the Holy Father was? If we take your statement above to it’s logical conclusion then what you are also saying is that we as lay people CANNOT know the Truth…why? Because we are not qualified. That is a load of bull. It is very clear from the Holy Fathers teachings and from Church teachings that birth control is 100% wrong. I usually find that those who disagree with the Holy Father especially in regards to birth control are using it in their own life and are trying to find an excuse for using it.
 
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alfredo:
My point is that I don’t see that you have the qualifications to call for the removal of Father McBrien. I don;t see where Father McBrien has in any way been censured by the Catholic hierarchy. He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area. For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
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Applying your same logic, what are your qualifications for defending this dissident, heterodoxy platforming priest? (I don’t believe that anyone on this forum is pretending to have the authority to remove this priest; only pointing out the evidence for his removal/censure).
 
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alfredo:
My point is that I don’t see that you have the qualifications to call for the removal of Father McBrien. I don;t see where Father McBrien has in any way been censured by the Catholic hierarchy. He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area. For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
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I didn’t realize his award was regarding distinguished achievement rather than just outstanding. That makes all the difference. Now I will believe his heresy.
 
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alfredo:
My point is that I don’t see that you have the qualifications to call for the removal of Father McBrien. I don;t see where Father McBrien has in any way been censured by the Catholic hierarchy. He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area. For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
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My qualifications include believing in Christ and binding myself to the barque of Peter. Do you or he have the qualifications to dissent?

BTW, the fact that he even has a column in any “Catholic” paper is more eveidence of material schism in the Church in America.
 
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Brad:
I didn’t realize his award was regarding distinguished achievement rather than just outstanding. That makes all the difference. Now I will believe his heresy.
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And Judas was an apostle. I guess position trumps salvation.
 
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alfredo:
For example, of those who have been criticising Father McBrien, how many have received the John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” . And how many of you are writing a weekly column in an official Catholic diocesan newspaper?
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I hope you are joking. Take a look at the chronology of past winners of the JCM award:
jcu.edu/ctsa/RECIPIENTS_OF_JCM_AWARD.pdf
It reads like the roll call lists at America Magazine’s and National Catholic Reporter editorial staff meetings!

(Google the names of some of the winners…I am not joking. Many of them write for America.)
 
I’m not suprised. Fr. McBrien has been a notorious dissenter for many years. His views on Catholicism are about as credible as Fr. Charles Curran and Fr. Hans Kung.

See here:
cin.org/users/james/files/mcbrien.htm
**Review of Fr. McBrien’s “Catholicism” **
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**by the National Council of Catholic Bishops’s
Committee on Doctrine **
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**[released April 9, 1996]
**
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In recent letters to Father Richard McBrien, Archbishop John R. Quinn, chairman of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on Doctrine and Archbishop Daniel E. Pilarczyk, acting chairman upon Archbishop Quinn’s retirement, expressed disappointment that the new edition of Father McBrien’s book Catholicism did not sufficiently correct several deficiencies that the committee had identified in its examination of the first two editions of the book undertaken in the early '80s. This examination culminated in a 1985 statement specifying a number of deficiencies that the committee hoped would be corrected in any future editions.
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msproule:
I hope you are joking. Take a look at the chronology of past winners of the JCM award:
jcu.edu/ctsa/RECIPIENTS_OF_JCM_AWARD.pdf
It reads like the roll call lists at America Magazine’s and National Catholic Reporter editorial staff meetings!

(Google the names of some of the winners…I am not joking. Many of them write for America.)
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Good point …hmmm, lets see, so Fr. McBrien is in the same good company as Chales E. Curran the first annual recipent …need more be said.
 
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All4lifetoo:
… is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith?
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This seems to be technical terms. Does it mean that it’s a dogma?

TIA

:blessyou:
 
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alfredo:
He is being condemned by the ill-qualified people on this board who have little or no known expertise in this area.
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How many awards or degrees does one need to read the CCC and find that McBrien is wrong?

:blessyou:
 
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fix:
The cadaverous ones are still agitating for relaxing the moral law. Ever wonder why these types want so much change in areas of sexuality and gender?
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Besides serving Mammon, why else?

:blessyou:
 
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alfredo:
Father McBrien graduated S.T.D., Pontifical Gregorian University, Rome, 1967. is at Notre Dame the Crowley-O’Brien Professor of Theology. He has written several books including: Do We Need the Church? (1969), Church: the Continuing Quest (1970), The Remaking of the Church (1973); Caesar’s Coin: Religion and Politics in America (1987); and the third in his Catholicism (1980; rev. ed., 1994), Lives of the Popes (1997), and Lives of the Saints (2001), as well as The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism (1995), of which he was general editor. He has been president of the Catholic Theological Society of America (1973-74) and winner of its John Courtney Murray Award “for outstanding and distinguished achievement in Theology” (1976). And on top of this, I read his weekly column in Cardinal Mahony’s Tidings newspaper.
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Hmm. All of that and yet he still doesn’t understand that not ordaining women is a doctrine of the Church or that doctrines cannot change. Interesting.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Augustine:
This seems to be technical terms. Does it mean that it’s a dogma?
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Yes, I would think so.

[A]ccording to a long-standing usage a dogma is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church… –newadvent.org/cathen/05089a.htm
 
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