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upant
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Is what the pope said infallible? Can a pope not be wrong in his personal opinion? It isn’t being anti-pope to disagree with the pope on his personal opinion
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Maximian
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Actually it’s a pro-Pope rant. Your best friend is always the one who has the courage to tell you when you got it wrong.
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FrankFletcher
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Who is this priest’s bishop?
Even if Pope Francis “got it wrong” (which I don’t believe at all), correction require prudence and humility because woe betide you are in fact the one in the wrong and have led ‘little ones’ to lose faith.
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StudentMI
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Liberal approaches to faith have caused more to lose the faith.
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FrankFletcher
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Are you able to cite a source that proves Pope Francis is driving Catholics away from the faith?
The Gospels speak most critically about Pharisee-ism on that count. That’s where Jesus charged them with ‘woe betide’ as a very strong admonishment. That seems to be lost on modern Catholics though.Motherwit:
Liberal approaches to faith have caused more to lose the faith.
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StudentMI
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Nice try. I said liberal approaches. And I don’t need to cite any source. You know as well as anyone that I’m right. Look at 65 years of liberalism in Protestant and Catholic communities, and watch the numbers dwindle.
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StudentMI
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Unfortunately people are quick to dismiss someone actually citing Christ’s words as promoting pharisaical views. Lest we forget Christ also spoke of the many who choose the wide road.
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MagdalenaRita
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Catholicism and Pharisee-ism are not the same thing. Saying that Catholics who follow the faith given to us by Divine Revelation are the same as Pharisees, who were creating extra laws and doing things just for show and holding back money, not obeying the law themselves, is uncharitable and an incorrect perspective. Jesus followed the laws and told the disciples to obey the laws.
Matthew 23: All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do:
I am not sure I have ever read where Jesus told the apostles to not obey the law.
The Apostle Paul also told Timothy to follow the Traditions handed down to him.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter
Modernism or liberalism is trying to encourage faithful Catholics to ignore what Christ and the Apostles have given us.
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MagdalenaRita
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Father forgot a group: Catholic parents and grandparents who have been working very hard and will be working hard trying to teach their children God’s desire and purpose for marriage and relationships.
They are all falling on their knees in deep prayer.
They are all falling on their knees in deep prayer.
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27lw
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Can a pope be wrong in his personal opinion? Like “the Seahawks always seem to lose when they wear those lime green jerseys”. Yup.
Can the pope openly contradict previous Vatican documents and Catholic teaching? That’s where it’s a bit sticky, right?
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FrankFletcher
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This thread is about this priest’s view of Pope Francis, not simply “liberal approaches.” So either you’re off topic or you should provide evidence. I’ve heard the claim you’re making for years and the truth is the Church was losing members before 1960. So no, I don’t know that it’s the fault of liberalism.FrankFletcher:
Nice try. I said liberal approaches. And I don’t need to cite any source. You know as well as anyone that I’m right. Look at 65 years of liberalism in Protestant and Catholic communities, and watch the numbers dwindle.
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MagdalenaRita
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You’re partly right. Problems did start before 1960.
but yes, liberalism, modernism or progressivism, whichever name you want to use, has created many of the issues we see in the Church, as Our Lady warned us
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FrankFletcher
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You’ve offered a conclusion without evidence.
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MagdalenaRita
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yes
It depends on the teaching, if it is doctrine, dogma or discipline. What we are talking about here is the issue of marriage and no it can not be changed by a pope. It is an infallibly declared dogma in the Catholic church and clearly spoken by Christ in the Scriptures.
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MagdalenaRita
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I’ll let you look into Pope Pius X’s encyclical on modernism where he warns:
Still it must be confessed that the number of the enemies of the Cross of Christ has in this days increased exceedingly, who are striving, by arts, entirely new and full of subtlety, to destroy the vital energy of the Church, and, if they can, to overthrow utterly Christ’s kingdom itself.
and
Moreover they lay the axe not to the branches and shoots, but to the very root, that is, to the faith and its deepest fires. And having struck at this root of immortality, they proceed to disseminate poison through the whole tree, so that there is no part of Catholic Truth from which they hold their hand, none that they do not strive to corrupt.
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FrankFletcher
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And how does Pope Francis connect to modernism in your mind?
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MagdalenaRita
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So, while yes this thread is about something Pope Francis said, when speaking of modernism, one is speaking of something that has been attacking the Church long before Pope Francis.
I believe also when hearing what the pope said, you also have to take into consideration certain bishops in certain countries that are encouraging or pushing this liberal thought
Finally, while I realize you want to push my comments into an attack on Pope Francis, sorry, I am not taking the bait. I am a Catholic and I like Pope Francis very much. I don’t agree with every thing he says, such as this recent statement, but in my comments, I was only explaining that modernism has been around and attacking the Church for more than 60 years.
God bless.
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