France Bans Face-Covering Islamic Veil

[karow]

foxnews.com/world/2011/04/11/france-bans-face-covering-islamic-veil-1300456722/

I’m really troubled whenever a government tries to legislate the niquab. It smacks of Islamophobia when done by Western governments and of some backlash against Bedouins when it comes up in North Africa. As far as the cries about “public safety” - I’ve seen Catholic nuns whose habits provided as much coverage as a typical hijab but no one gets jittery when Sr. Rosemarie strolls down the street.

The idea that niquabis suffer from domestic abuse is curious. Yeah, I’m sure there are niquabis and hijabis who are beaten by fathers, brothers, husbands. But there are also plenty of Christian women who are terrorized in their homes, too. And I’ve known dozens and dozens of hiajbis having lived in North Africa for yonks, and not one covered because they were forced to by their families. Not one. Heck I knew hijabis whose own mothers didn’t cover.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

I have a friend who used to say (in reference to cycling shorts) that “Spandex is a privelege, not a right.”

Modesty saves us from more than just scandal, but also embarrassment.

Ha… that cracked me up. “Spandex is a priviledge”, not a right… haha

 

[spunjalebi]

The fact of the matter, this has to do more with the intrusion on personal freedom of religious expression than privacy or security.

Let’s generalize the argument of “security” to non-Islamic women. By golly, how do we know that those women wearing coverings to Mass aren’t really sneaking in something dark and sinister? Or those NUNS with their full habits not sporting some fancy small-hand held automatic…

See how ridiculous that is?

Honestly, very few Islamic women cover their entire faces. Most women do the basic hijab-- covering their hair and wearing very modest clothing. This law is taking the instances of a few people and applying it to everyone. Face-covering Islamic veils are not the rule, but the exception.

 

[saveusfromhell]

europe is a secular society, banning the hijab is wrong, a government that decides what you can wear is dangerous. it’s only a few short steps away from any form of public religious proclamation being unlawful.

 

[SamH]

Face-covering Islamic veils are not the rule, but the exception.

That’s because the veil has nothing to do with the Islamic religon.

 

[spunjalebi]

It should not matter if it has to do with the faith. If a woman chooses to express herself and her religious convictions by wearing one, it should be allowed for her to do so. This is going to be a segue into other laws that will over time, slowly erode people’s freedoms of religious expression.

Why is it the government’s business if a woman wants to wear a face veil, hijab, wear a “burkini,” etc.? Who is she hurting? Why does the government think it necessary to ban that, but it’s okay to implant large pieces of metal underneath one’s face, thus deforming it, and no one thinks to consider the health ramifications?

 

[JHow]

…it’s okay to implant large pieces of metal underneath one’s face, thus deforming it, and no one thinks to consider the health ramifications?

I was going great until I got to this bit. Uh, what? Are you talking about orthodontics? Plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons?

 

[spunjalebi]

I was going great until I got to this bit. Uh, what? Are you talking about orthodontics? Plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons?

LOL no I was talking about this stuff:

trendhunter.com/trends/subdermal-implants-body-mods-to-customize-your-flesh#!/photos/645/1

Seriously? The guy sort of looks like a demon. Who is going to be safer if they fall or somehow get a head injury-- the woman wearing a face veil, or the guy with metal things implanted under the surface of his skin on TOP OF HIS BRAIN?

 

[JHow]

LOL no I was talking about this stuff:…/QUOTE]

Oh, okay. Yep, that’s pretty gross / stupid. I’m hiring that guy to work in customer service right away.

 

[Dale_M]

But how do you know if a woman is being forced to wear it or not?

This is a valid question, and I agree makes the issue of enforceability open to question.

I thought security was the reason they were doing this, and I’m absolutely for it.

I don’t think that is the rationale for the law. Rather, the law says that veiling the face is impairs the dignity and equality of women.

 

[saveusfromhell]

i take your point, western Europe is more secular than eastern Europe. I wouldn’t dream of calling Ireland any thing other than secular now either

 

[spunjalebi]

I can understand the sentiment of concern behind the question of whether we do or don’t know if a woman is being forced to wear a face veil-- but that is not up to the law.

I think this law of banning the face veil does more harm and adds to the fervor of “she’s being forced,” rather than taking a rational and objective stance.

 

[Dale_M]

I think Christian countries have the right to “regulate” within reason non-Christian" religions. If non-Christians don’t like it, they are free to move to a different country.

Thank goodness the US Constitution disagrees with you.

 

[surfinpure]

europe is a secular society, banning the hijab is wrong, a government that decides what you can wear is dangerous. it’s only a few short steps away from any form of public religious proclamation being unlawful.

Yes. This.

Once a government takes it upon itself to regulate religious attire and/or expression, it’s on a very slippery slope. And I find it particularly ironic that the ban comes on an expression of modesty (which has become a rarity), rather than one of the many perverse and borderline-pornographic fashions now seen in Europe and the US. This does not bode well for any religion that calls for modesty.

 

[sidbrown]

Once a government takes it upon itself to regulate religious attire and/or expression, it’s on a very slippery slope. And I find it particularly ironic that the ban comes on an expression of modesty (which has become a rarity), rather than one of the many perverse and borderline-pornographic fashions now seen in Europe and the US. This does not bode well for any religion that calls for modesty.

I don’t know. I mean it can be dangerous to allow people to cover their faces entirely except for a slight, small hole for the eyes. How would you identify them in case a crime was committed? Yes, I am 100% in favor of allowing wome to wear any type of head scarf, but no, I don;t think it is a good idea to have people going around with their faces completely covered. If society were crime free, then perhaps, but unfortunately, today, we live in a society wracked by horrific crimes.

 

[surfinpure]

I don’t know. I mean it can be dangerous to allow people to cover their faces entirely except for a slight, small hole for the eyes. How would you identify them in case a crime was committed? Yes, I am 100% in favor of allowing wome to wear any type of head scarf, but no, I don;t think it is a good idea to have people going around with their faces completely covered. If society were crime free, then perhaps, but unfortunately, today, we live in a society wracked by horrific crimes.

Granted. But…

Does anyone know if any crimes have actually been attributed to an anonymous burqa-wearer? Is it a problem over there (like ski-masks are a problem over here)?

And…

If security is what the French government is really worried about, why offend so many Muslims unnecessarily with a statement about it being demeaning to women, and why make a law that’s unenforceable? What’s the French word for “stupid?” Because that’s what this law is!

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

What brought all this on?

Has there been incidents with the Burka in France? I remember there was a woman killed when her burka got caught on a motorcycle or something…

I am just wondering what led up to all this?

 

[sidbrown]

Granted. But…

Does anyone know if any crimes have actually been attributed to an anonymous burqa-wearer? Is it a problem over there (like ski-masks are a problem over here)?

And…

If security is what the French government is really worried about, why offend so many Muslims unnecessarily with a statement about it being demeaning to women, and why make a law that’s unenforceable? What’s the French word for “stupid?” Because that’s what this law is!

I would disagree that the law is stupid.

 

[surfinpure]

I would disagree that the law is stupid.

Even if it succeeds at nothing but getting all the Muslims upset? I mean, if there really is a security need, for heaven’s sake, they ought to make a law that has some impact on security, surely?

 

[Darryl1958]

Even if it succeeds at nothing but getting all the Muslims upset? I mean, if there really is a security need, for heaven’s sake, they ought to make a law that has some impact on security, surely?

The Muslims who aren’t upset are exactly the Muslims that this kind of law was designed to cater to. No more having the zealots morality forced down their throats or wrapped around their faces either.
As for upsetting hot-headed fanatic Islamists, it is in their nature to be upset.