France formally recognises Libyan rebels' authority

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In a major diplomatic victory for the Libyan opposition, France has become the first country to formally recognise Libya’s rebel leadership, pledging to exchange ambassadors between Paris and the Libyan opposition stronghold of Benghazi.

France became the first country to formally recognize the Libyan opposition – the Interim Transitional National Council – as legitimate representatives of the Libyan people on Thursday, pledging to exchange ambassadors with the country’s newly created transitional council in a major diplomatic victory for the Libyan opposition.

The announcement followed a meeting between French President Nicolas Sarkozy and two representatives of Libya’s Interim Transitional National Council in Paris Thursday

france24.com/en/20110310-France-NTC-national-transitional-council-embassy-Libya

What a sad day indeed when France beats us to supporting a group of people seeking freedom from a self-admitted terrorist.:mad:
 
iamrefreshed said:
What a sad day indeed when France beats us to supporting a group of people seeking freedom from a self-admitted terrorist.:mad:
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Not so sad. Those brave people just got recognized by a major power that understood how important international recognition is to a newly emerging freedom-loving government. What is sad is that our country is dragging its feet on doing the same.

A bas le dictateur! A bas Kadhafi! Vive la France!
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Not so sad. Those brave people just got recognized by a major power that understood how important international recognition is to a newly emerging freedom-loving government. What is sad is that our country is dragging its feet on doing the same.

A bas le dictateur! A bas Kadhafi! Vive la France!
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I don’t think the EU is strong enough militarily to do much about Libya. France has a small (by US standards) aircraft carrier and the British Navy is all but defunded. I don’t know if either country has the type of aircraft needed to keep flying on a permanent basis to take out SAM sites even if based on islands. So France is trying to get the EU to go to NATO and ask for a NFZ and targeted attacks. NATO = USA

Nick Kristof of the New York Times tweets: “2 trends: West inches toward NoFlyZone; Libya gains against rebels. When the NFZ is finally ready, it may be too late.”

Here’s a link to the recent **French-British statement **addressed to the president of the European council.
 
A year and a half ago, thousands of Iranians protested against the brutal regime in Iran (a regime that is 100 percent enemies with America and has American blood on it’s hands) and Obama said nothing in support of them. Thousands of Egyptians protested against a dictator (a dictator that has been an ally of America for over 30 years) and Obama called for him to step down. Thousands of Libyans fight for the removal of a brutal dictator (a dictator that is 100 percent an enemy of America and has American blood on his hands) and Obama continues to lag well behind Europe in supporting the Libyans freedom fighters.

See a pattern here?
 
I have yet to be convinced that any of the freedom fighters in the middle east and Africa are truly interested in freedom as we think of it. We don’t know where they are going yet and I think we should hold off giving support rather than backing what may just be the beginning of another brutal regime - remember the Taliban.

The violence against Christians and women in Cairo doesn’t bode well for freedom. I say let them sort it out without our help.
 
momor said:
I have yet to be convinced that any of the freedom fighters in the middle east and Africa are truly interested in freedom as we think of it.
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The general populations of North African and ME countries don’t have any experience with representative democracy and have never read John Locke, Thomas Jefferson or John Madison, Most of them just don’t like their curret ruler and are hoping for a better ruler to come in their place. Their experience is will rulers, kings and sultans.
 
momor said:
I have yet to be convinced that any of the freedom fighters in the middle east and Africa are truly interested in freedom as we think of it.
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How can you expect them to be interested in freedom “the way the United States thinks of it” when they have no experience at it?

We can hope and try to prompt them to choose a government that will lead to western styled freedom, but it’s not going to come overnight.

In the meanwhile, the freedom fighters are still better than having Khaddafi back in charge.
 
For what it is worth (probably not much), here is my guess on what we will see play out:

Tunisia - a little more freedom but the country will still be highly corrupt
Egypt - a little more freedom, a pretense at elections, but the military will still run things
Morocco, Algeria and the ME Kingdoms will proably hold on
Yemen may fall into anarchy and become even more of a haven for al-Qaeda
Libya - If it doesn’t become a protectorate of the EU may also fall into the hands of Islamists. Al-Qaeda in Iraq was supplied with recruits from Eastern Libya, the very place that is spiriting the revolt.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
How can you expect them to be interested in freedom “the way the United States thinks of it” when they have no experience at it?

We can hope and try to prompt them to choose a government that will lead to western styled freedom, but it’s not going to come overnight.

In the meanwhile, the freedom fighters are still better than having Khaddafi back in charge.
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Since you don’t know who would end up running the country if Khaddafi is ousted, I think that’s a huge assumption and one I’m not willing to make. As I said, remember the Taliban.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
We can hope and try to prompt them to choose a government that will lead to western styled freedom, but it’s not going to come overnight.
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Why would a devout Muslim want a Western style of government? Remember your talking about a style of government rooted in Christianity, not Islam (Dar al-Harb vs Dar al-Islam). Whereas our societies are secular, their societies are definately not secular. They may want to be treated better, and that may be what they are calling freedom, but I don’t think they want to embrace Western ways at all.

Case in point: Egypt’s constitution states that all law is rooted in Sharia and no one in that country is seriously proposing changing that.

Article 2
Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic its official language.Islamic jurisprudence is the principal source of legislation. uam.es/otroscentros/medina/egypt/egypolcon.htm
 
Thought Peter Wehner had a good article on France, President Obama, and Libya.

Barack Obama’s America
commentarymagazine.com/2011/03/10/barack-obama’s-america/

From it:
Charles Krauthammer wrote an essay in 2009 that is worth rereading. Among his arguments is that the current foreign policy of the United States is an exercise in contraction, one that began with the demolition of the moral foundation of American dominance, “the fundamental consequence of which is to effectively undermine any moral claim that America might have to world leadership, as well as the moral confidence that any nation needs to have in order to justify to itself and to others its position of leadership.”
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According to the new dispensation, Krauthammer wrote, “having forfeited the mandate of heaven — if it ever had one — a newly humbled America now seeks a more modest place among the nations, not above them.”
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But it seems as if Obama, at least on Libya, is doing one better than having America take a place among the nations. We are, in fact, behind the nations of the world.
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France – and not just France — is showing far more leadership on the world stage than the United States.
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Welcome to Barack Obama’s America.
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Welcome to Barack Obama’s America.
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Not for long. No President has won re-election when unemployment was over 8%.

I just hope America can make it for the last 2 years. Seriously:(
 
Just once I would love to see on CAF a political discussion strictly on morals, ideas, and issues and NOT about political parties. As soon as you bring party politics into it, people start talking past each other and the claims and counter-claims just get more and more defensive and nothing gets solved. GEE! Kind of like Congress…
 
momor said:
Since you don’t know who would end up running the country if Khaddafi is ousted, I think that’s a huge assumption and one I’m not willing to make. As I said, remember the Taliban.
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No question about it. You are correct; it is a huge assumption, but one I’m willing to make.
 
gilliam said:
Why would a devout Muslim want a Western style of government? Remember your talking about a style of government rooted in Christianity, not Islam (Dar al-Harb vs Dar al-Islam). Whereas our societies are secular, their societies are definately not secular. They may want to be treated better, and that may be what they are calling freedom, but I don’t think they want to embrace Western ways at all.

Case in point: Egypt’s constitution states that all law is rooted in Sharia and no one in that country is seriously proposing changing that.
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Point well taken. In my defense, I’ll say that I hoped for western-styled freedom rather than called for a western-styled government. I defer to your analysis.
 
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