Francis - the socialist pope?

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I love Pope John Paul and I love Pope Francis, just not as much. Pope Benedict stepped down as Pope and I’m not certain why, but I wasn’t too much of a fan of his although I would never say or write hateful things about him.

Depending on who Pope is next there might be a schism in America, a non-Catholic country. I will still stick to Catholicism. I’m not certain why everyone is concerned with Socialism and viewing it as equal evil as Nazism or Racism. I don’t support Socialism in America, but there are many Socialist countries in Europe. All Socialism is, is taxing the wealthy more money and distributing it to others through social safety nets. Again, I can’t understand the allure of a Bernie Sanders but I’m not walking away from Catholicism or disliking a Pope or speaking ill of a Pope just because he comes from a different world than America.

I don’t vilify the wealthy but I don’t deify them either. Again, I grew up with other Catholics along with other religions and most protestant I met were of the liberal sorts. I’ve never lived in the Bible Belt, but it seem the 3/10 who don’t like Pope Francis are too concerned with Protestantism. Well, it’s easy for me to say I don’t see anything for or against Protestants but again I didn’t grow up with people forcing their views on me.

So, I’ll wait to see who the next Pope is to see how Americans in Catholic react. You can’t serve Mammon and God, the Apostles took from the wealthy and redistributed, this is not in support of Socialism but rather I’m grateful Protestantism has no impact on me where I don’t have the Spirit of Catholicism. If the next Pope is an American Fundamentalist or Orthodox Pope like the 3/10 want I’ll still be Catholic but I’ll be a regional Catholic. My Perish is diverse and the Father in charge of our Church is from Nigeria. Great, he is well educated, great at homilies, and exudes holiness.

But I have had to site with someone that was an Alt-Right Trump Supporter or a Socialist and talk for an hour, yah I’d take the Socialist; we’d probably end up talking about music although disagreeing on views.
 
RepetantCatholic said:
I’m not certain why everyone is concerned with Socialism and viewing it as equal evil as Nazism or Racism
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Implying there is a difference between socialism and Nazism. Both are totalitarian socialist doctrines. Both have committed atrocities. One just has a higher score because the western powers supported one over the other.
 
Over the years, the Patriots have been involved in things like trying to video other teams, deflating footballs, etc. in other words cheating.
I don’t think Pope Francis would approve of that.
 
As a general note to everyone:

I see many people on this thread making claims about the Holy Father without presenting any evidence at all. If you’re going to claim that the Pope is a socialist or he has approved Liberation Theology, you had better back those claims up with evidence.

Remember that claims without evidence are dismissed without evidence.
 
I by-and-large support Pope Francis and think he is handling the immense responsibility of his office with great care.
 
Pope Francis is not a socialist. He is a Jesuit and they have a sort of character that the Holy Father has brought to the papacy, nothing wrong with this.

Pope Francis has never espoused the evils of socialism. He is a great leader and the Vicar of Christ.
 
“Francis - the socialist pope?”

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As a lady educated by the Jesuits in high school and college, I adore Pope Francis. Liberation Theology is very much rooted in the Jesuits as our Catholic call to action to stand up for those without power. Separation of church and state was a direct response against the Church of England being a branch of the government in the UK by the Founding Fathers so that religious leaders would not control the government. One can support one’s nation, but not to the point of allowing injustice to flourish. I’m very glad we still have the power of free speech in the US so we can’t be murdered or imprisoned for criticizing the government. Democratic Socialism is a good thing.
 
Lucia24 said:
As a lady educated by the Jesuits in high school and college, I adore Pope Francis. Liberation Theology is very much rooted in the Jesuits as our Catholic call to action to stand up for those without power. Separation of church and state was a direct response against the Church of England being a branch of the government in the UK by the Founding Fathers so that religious leaders would not control the government. One can support one’s nation, but not to the point of allowing injustice to flourish. I’m very glad we still have the power of free speech in the US so we can’t be murdered or imprisoned for criticizing the government. Democratic Socialism is a good thing.
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Liberation Theology was condemned by Pope St. John Paul and Pope Benedict.

The reputation of Jesuits in recent decades in matter of faithfulness to the Magisterium is a topic worthy of debate.

The phrase “separation between Church and State” is not found in the US Constitution. It was first appeared in a letter of Thomas Jefferson reassuring a concerned citizen what the First Amendment meant regarding the relationship between Church and State. Jefferson made the point that it was to prevent the State from interfering with the Church—not the other way around. The First Amendment ensures freedom OF religion—not freedom FROM religion.

Socialism is a destructive pipe dream that have destroyed so many nations—Argentina, Venezuela, Former Soviet Union, Former Eastern Block countries, other Central and South American countries, etc… Socialism, both by definition and in practice, is totalitarian in nature. Its social programs (free education, free healthcare, free housing, free transportation, etc…) are so large that they dwarf human rights, religious liberty, freedom and pursuit of happiness. The government becomes so incompetent and inefficient that things got done so badly and so wastefully—rendering a total distrust from the people. This results in corruptions of all types and suppression of thoughts and renovation. If you think that freedom and human rights would still be respected in socialism, you could not be more wrong.

My family fled a socialist country risking our own lives to come to US about 40 years ago. My family along with over 1 million of my people made that dangerous escape. Hundreds of thousands of people perished at sea. Tens of thousands of innocent young girls/women were captured by pirates and were then sold as sex slaves in brothels. But you know what??? We would make the decision to make that dangerous escape again. Why??? Because socialism is really that bad. I would not wish socialism upon America—a country that has been so good to me and to those whose escaped socialism. I simply can not believe that there are people who think socialism (democratic or otherwise) is a good thing.

I am reminded of our baptismal vow. Do you reject Satan, and all its works and promises? Now, just replace “Satan” with “Socialism”.
 
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I don’t like to say anything about the Pope. I prefer to pray for him.
 
Randolph, sounds like you went a bit too far with the Satan part and lumping a lot of countries into Socialism/ Communism out of your own imagination…( and I don’t mean to offend you…)
We have really not have Socialism as such everywhere you mention…
And although I am not a Socialist/ Communist at all, I personally appreciate our system of public education and free health care( I know… through our taxes) where we live in Latin America,which is Constitutional in nature ,and what it needs is more brains and less useless hands in it. Among others
So yes, we have had and have a lot of problems, but not exactly that one…fortunately!
And it is very very comforting to know you will walk into a tiny hospital or big one or a salita, and some of the very best doctors whom you may also see privately, will also share their time, talents and gifts in the public sphere.
That is the hand of God extended…
So all well that we are different in some areas, and that we both love our homelands much…
 
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graciew said:
Randolph, sounds like you went a bit too far with the Satan part and lumping a lot of countries into Socialism/ Communism out of your own imagination
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I meant what I said. Socialism destroys lives and nations. It takes away human rights and human freedom. It treats people as useful pawns for the State. The Catholic Church condemns socialism (see link at end of my post). Free healthcare are mis-leading and vague words. In a socialist/communist country, there is free healthcare. But you get bad healthcare when you go to hospitals—if you even get to see any doctor or get any medical treatments at all. The wait list is long and the wait time is also very long. In fact, all doctors and nurses have their own private practice in their own homes. After their work hours at the hospitals, doctors and nurses would start working at their private practices to provide real healthcare to people—those who could afford their fees.

Free education is poor education—mostly propaganda education. The chosen ones who could go to colleges and universities are those who are loyal to the State.

Free Housing means living in badly run housing units—slumps if you will. See examples in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Ukraine, etc…

The Big Brothers run the show. If anyone is seen/suspected as an enemy of the State. That person would get a mid-night knock at his own home and be asked to accompany the authority. He is then to never be seen again.

This is not my imagination. I lived it!!! So did millions of other people in Asia, Eastern Europe, etc… Argentina was a wealthy and prosperous country in the early 1900’s. What happened to Argentina after socialism took over?

The Catholic Church condemns socialism.

https://m.ncregister.com/blog/johnclark/socialism-has-been-condemned-for-20-centuries
 
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And then, I still respect what you lived.
And still, it is inaccurate , not to say false that all the countries you mentioned including those in Latin America are or went through Socialism/Communism, as that our health system is as you describe it.
It is to say it is dehumanizing, and a condition unfair to all those in the medical services who do lovingly and efficiently help us day after day with our health issues.
Moreover,I wouldn’t live anywhere else on earth personally. This is my family, this is my homeland, my roots.Flaws and all. And I love it.
In China, I very clearly learnt first hand what St. John Paul also very clearly stated ( I can repost it later). Socialism as it it understood in China for example is the way to that state of say perfection which they call Communism, not yet attained in their eyes.
Socialist or Social + noun does not always refer to =Communism across the board as mentioned for the China case.
I am not interested in anything but making clear that not all countries you mentioned were or are related to the Socialist/ Communist system. It is a verifiable fact. No need to argue about it.
 
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NoelFitz said:
It seems to me that CAF disapproves of socialism and supports President Trump, in spite of the separation of Church and state.
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Catholic Answers, the organization, is neutral. However, posters on the Forum are free to identify as they choose.

Also, Separation of Church and State are merely the musings of a Deist named Thomas Jefferson.
NoelFitz said:
Would one like to see in CAF more threads showing unequivocal support for the Pope and Catholic social teaching.?
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I’ve seen plenty of that here.
 
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graciew said:
This is my family, this is my homeland, my roots.Flaws and all. And I love it.
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I don’t know where you live. Nor do I want to know. If you embrace socialism in your home land, that is your prerogative. I wish you well. I certainly don’t want it in my country. My point was socialism destroys lives and countries. Another verifiable fact is taking a look at Venezuela. They prospered as recently as 20-30 years ago. Now, their people are starving and the country is in terrible shape.

I was responding to a poster who said socialism is a good thing. It’s not. It’s horrible and destructive. The Catholic Church also condemns it. Socialism has been a proven social failure in the 20th and 21st centuries.
 
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I would go with Francis - the Catholic Pope and disciple of Jesus… over the political and economic theory of socialism
 
My point is that in order to make your point you threw a few countries under the bus.
My point is that if Socialism as per the Church and how She understands it, is not clearly defined and understood, then Social Teaching , Communism and whatever salad is “ all the same”.
As we as different nations are “ all the same” as you unknowingly probably lumped together
And thus the Pope is subject to opinions out of thin air .
You are not listening…and I m spelling it out for you , and beyond…that not everything “Social” across the globe is what the Church condemns.But even “Social “ Doctrine of the Church gives a chill …to those who haven’t read it. And so lightheartedly opine about the Pope and the Jesuits, and this and that…And no, it is not my prerogative to embrace Socialism/ Communism( which isn’t and has never been the system where I live): I am Catholic.
And so is the Pope. Just in case.
 
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From my limited vantage point, there seemed to be a fairly significant amount of corruption in the Vatican, as a governmental organization at least. I see Pope Francis’s role in history as the pope who is supposed to clean that up. I won’t expect miracles, but IMO his tenure will be successful if he makes good strides in this area, and in other areas simply keeps things operating. There’s a lot being hyped in his favor and against, sort of political stuff, which says more about those talking than it does about him. If the Vatican is becoming a better-run place with less organizational/fiscal scandal then IMO he’s a success. Expecting greatness on all fronts would be silly. So would expecting him too be a major figure in terms of economic philosophies.
 
She was one of three Pope Francis singled out when he spoke in the US Congress. ( Thomas Merton and Lincoln the other 2).
 
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