Free abortions for all

[St_Francis]

No offense but I do believe that what you suggest isn’t practical. Recorded history is filled with tales of the mighty and the weak that could not properly control their sexuality. It is not “extremely easy” to refrain from sex for whatever reasons.

People will get pregnant. The best thing that can happen is that they will be born to be cared for.

Ah, you are disagreeing with my saying it is an extremely easy solution, by which I contrasting it with the apparent difficulties of using other means, all of which have become extremely complicated.

Yes, it’s true that people gave trouble controlling their sexual desires. One of the things that helps people learn to control themselves is the potential consequences of their action. I may desire to drive too fast, but the consequence of a ticket leads me to drive at the appropriate speed.

Yes, I think that when we fall, babies should be cared for. And there are two people whose job it is to care for the baby, and if they do not feel up to the task, they can best care for their baby by allowing another couple to adopt him or her.

 

[lmachine]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

 

[St_Pancake]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

I’m glad you’re amused.

I don’t think it funny at all that you stand with the baby killers.

 

[ATraveller]

No offense but I do believe that what you suggest isn’t practical. Recorded history is filled with tales of the mighty and the weak that could not properly control their sexuality. It is not “extremely easy” to refrain from sex for whatever reasons.

People will get pregnant. The best thing that can happen is that they will be born to be cared for.

Everyone can refrain from sex. It’s just that many *choose *not to. It’s a matter of discipline and denying one’s flesh. Of course that only works if a society is religious, which America is not and hence all of these abortions and morning-after DIY abortions. Calling yourself a ‘Christian’ doesn’t mean you are a Christian who knows and loves God, being transformed by the Spirit and understand how much we deserve hell and only out of God’s mercy we are saved.
Then add in the fact self-discipline and self-control are disapproved in Western societies, which has sociological impacts.

 

[josh987654321]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

Because obviously this at a federal level would be so much worse.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[St_Francis]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

It’s very sad to watch states, whether individually or en masse, fall for the idea that people have some sort of “right” to kill other people.

IOW, this is not an insurance issue but an issue of good vs evil.

 

[St_Pancake]

Everyone can refrain from sex. It’s just that many *choose *not to. It’s a matter of discipline and denying one’s flesh. Of course that only works if a society is religious, which America is not and hence all of these abortions and morning-after DIY abortions. Calling yourself a ‘Christian’ doesn’t mean you are a Christian who knows and loves God, being transformed by the Spirit and understand how much we deserve hell and only out of God’s mercy we are saved.
Then add in the fact self-discipline and self-control are disapproved in Western societies, which has sociological impacts.

I can refrain from sex but I’m not sure that everyone can.

 

[fmchan52]

the dems controls the senate and governorship.

this bill will probably become law.

where will it end?

washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/2/oregon-house-passes-free-abortions-bill-reproducti/?utm_source=onesignal&utm_campaign=pushnotify&utm_medium=push

The evil won’t end until Christ returns in glory. Until that time we must keep fighting against it.

 

[ATraveller]

I can refrain from sex but I’m not sure that everyone can.

They can refrain. Everyone has the capacity to refrain but many simply choose not to refrain. It’s a choice and as with any choice there is/are outcome(s). To say one’s urges are uncontrollable is a lie and a lie that people need to stop perpetuating.

 

[Meagan34]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

What was laughable was the answer to the high costs of maternity care with it “being mitigated by the value of bringing a human into the world.” Next time I go into the delivery room and I’m asked what insurance I have, I’ll tell them the costs will be covered by the value of them delivering my baby. I’m sure the doctors and nurses will more than gladly receive that form of payment.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

They can refrain. Everyone has the capacity to refrain but many simply choose not to refrain. It’s a choice and as with any choice there is/are outcome(s). To say one’s urges are uncontrollable is a lie and a lie that people need to stop perpetuating.

OK, granted that people do have the capacity to refrain from sex, and that there should be consequences for not refraining. But there is still an ambiguous definition of what those consequences should be.

Obviously we don’t want to grant parents full and complete responsibility for what happens to the child, because if we did, we would have to grant them the right to abortion, or even infanticide. No, the child does not “belong” to the parents in the sense that their car, boat, or RV belong to them. They should not be able to do whatever they please with the child, either before or after he is born. But to paraphrase Spiderman, with great responsibility comes great power. If the parents do not have total power over the child, then neither do then have total responsibility. So where to draw the line?

We subsidize parenting to some extent in our tax code. We give deductions for dependents. This is society recognizing that they share an interest in the welfare of the child, even while the parent has the major interest. We don’t insist that the parents pay the entire cost of education for their child - we have public education. We show in many ways that society and the parents have a shared interest and a shared responsibility for the child.

So why can’t childbirth be looked at the same way? Society has an interest in seeing that all its members have a good start in life. One can argue the degree to which childbirth should be subsidized, but I don’t think it can be dismissed completely on general principles.

 

[starshiptrooper]

It’s pretty funny to watch people who argue that health insurance regulation should be a state issue get mad when a state votes to change health insurance regulation.

I prefer state regulations to federal regulation because I prefer 50 options to 1 option. I would prefer health insurance to be free however so that it is a matter between my provider and myself. State intervention only in case of fraud or initiation of violence.

What was laughable was the answer to the high costs of maternity care with it “being mitigated by the value of bringing a human into the world.” Next time I go into the delivery room and I’m asked what insurance I have, I’ll tell them the costs will be covered by the value of them delivering my baby. I’m sure the doctors and nurses will more than gladly receive that form of payment.

Would you mind explaining how the accomplishment of impregnation by a man who was unable or unwilling to assist with the costs of pregnancy entitles you someone else’s money?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Would you mind explaining how the accomplishment of impregnation by a man who was unable or unwilling to assist with the costs of pregnancy entitles you someone else’s money?

It is a choice by society to subsidize parenting. The parents are not “entitled” to that subsidy, but society can “choose” to deliver that subsidy if it wishes.

 

[starshiptrooper]

It is a choice by society to subsidize parenting. The parents are not “entitled” to that subsidy, but society can “choose” to deliver that subsidy if it wishes.

Society can pick its own pocket then, not the individual’s.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Society can pick its own pocket then, not the individual’s.

If you are part of society, you have to pay even for some things you don’t agree with.

Suppose the town decides we need a new fire station and want to use tax money to build it. But I think the old one is good enough. Can I say to them “pick your own pocket, not mine” and be excused from having my taxes go to this project? I don’t think so.

 

[ATraveller]

OK, granted that people do have the capacity to refrain from sex, and that there should be consequences for not refraining. But there is still an ambiguous definition of what those consequences should be.

Obviously we don’t want to grant parents full and complete responsibility for what happens to the child, because if we did, we would have to grant them the right to abortion, or even infanticide. No, the child does not “belong” to the parents in the sense that their car, boat, or RV belong to them. They should not be able to do whatever they please with the child, either before or after he is born. But to paraphrase Spiderman, with great responsibility comes great power. If the parents do not have total power over the child, then neither do then have total responsibility. So where to draw the line?

We subsidize parenting to some extent in our tax code. We give deductions for dependents. This is society recognizing that they share an interest in the welfare of the child, even while the parent has the major interest. We don’t insist that the parents pay the entire cost of education for their child - we have public education. We show in many ways that society and the parents have a shared interest and a shared responsibility for the child.

So why can’t childbirth be looked at the same way? Society has an interest in seeing that all its members have a good start in life. One can argue the degree to which childbirth should be subsidized, but I don’t think it can be dismissed completely on general principles.

I’m not opposed to government assistance. I’m just pointing out the lie people have no self-control our societies have bought into and pounded into our collective memory through pop culture propaganda. That’s my main concern.
As for the efficacy of such assistance, it’s worth a try but I very much doubt it will encourage people who are somehow surprised sex even with contraception can still result in a pregnancy to allow the child to live instead of snuffing the life out of the child. In the end, a shift in our culture is needed.

 

[St_Francis]

OK, granted that people do have the capacity to refrain from sex, and that there should be consequences for not refraining. But there is still an ambiguous definition of what those consequences should be.

Obviously we don’t want to grant parents full and complete responsibility for what happens to the child, because if we did, we would have to grant them the right to abortion, or even infanticide. No, the child does not “belong” to the parents in the sense that their car, boat, or RV belong to them. They should not be able to do whatever they please with the child, either before or after he is born. But to paraphrase Spiderman, with great responsibility comes great power. If the parents do not have total power over the child, then neither do then have total responsibility. So where to draw the line?

We subsidize parenting to some extent in our tax code. We give deductions for dependents. This is society recognizing that they share an interest in the welfare of the child, even while the parent has the major interest. We don’t insist that the parents pay the entire cost of education for their child - we have public education. We show in many ways that society and the parents have a shared interest and a shared responsibility for the child.

So why can’t childbirth be looked at the same way? Society has an interest in seeing that all its members have a good start in life. One can argue the degree to which childbirth should be subsidized, but I don’t think it can be dismissed completely on general principles.

I see poor families with lots of children all the time. It seems like there is some sort of help with childbirth expenses in the US.