Free will? I dont think so

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Polar opposites - I like to stay in the middle and say “I don’t know” and keep my mind open I’m in trouble when I say I know.
 
Right now -yes You might say I wanted to explore other ideas and I am still working it trying to see the big picture
 
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I can’t explore other ideas if I fix my thinking that catholic is the only truth - people are not going to like that statement - I just want to take a breath and say I don’t know for a short time and look at other things I have not renounced my faith I want to keep an open mind.
If the catholic church does have the truth I’ll be back - I have to do this search in my life like it or not and I have the time
 
I can not accept that God knows what will happen to me and that I have free will. period. And to just to make the claim that God is God and we cant understand God isnt going to cut it for me.
 
phil3 said:
I can not accept that God knows what will happen to me and that I have free will. period
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I don’t understand that attitude. How does an outside entity knowing what you will decide mean that you don’t actually make the decision? Surely you know someone who, if you offered them a choice between chocolate and vanilla ice cream will always choose chocolate. Does that mean that they are incapable of choosing vanilla?
 
lelinator said:
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goout:
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lelinator:
Unfortunately, faith tends to make people assume just such positions. I myself find such irrationality puzzling.
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This is patent nonsense.
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Not really, faith, like arrogance, or bias, tends to make people rigidly commit themselves to one particular point of view to the exclusion of many, if not all others.

I can understand however, why you would vehemently reject that fact.

Interestingly though, in keeping with the theme of this thread, is it free will that causes you to object so vehemently…or something else?
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I like to ask for proof that faith is analogous to arrogance and bias?
Can you at least define the terms you are using so, ummm, rigidly?

What is faith.
How do you equate faith with arrogance and, er, bias (the irony is almost amusing, if it weren’t for the fact that persecutors of religion killed millions in the last century. Does that qualify for your “arrogance” and “vehemence”?)

So please, in the name of reason: why do you vehemently equate faith to arrogance and bias?
 
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I just dont believe he can know what I will do and that I have free will. And until the church makes it Ex Cathedra I am going to keep that belief. Even if I am wrong I dont think God will hold it against me
 
phil3 said:
If God already knows what will happen to me, there is no free will. My soul is already going to go to heaven or to hell. I have already made those decisions before I made them. It is done and finished. It is like a book that has already been written. I am have just started to read it, but the ending isnt going to change.
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So what, you still had free will.
 
phil3 said:
I just dont believe he can know what I will do and that I have free will. And until the church makes it Ex Cathedra I am going to keep that belief. Even if I am wrong I dont think God will hold it against me
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This should help:

Knowing something requires a static, deterministic reality. And “knowing something” is NOT to have a highly probable outcome. Suppose that you observe two cars on a colliding course, only a short distance apart. The “prediction” of a collision is only a very probable event, but you cannot know until it happens.
 
whatistrue said:
clear unambiguous language helps with that.
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Yeah, tell that to the folks who wrote the 2nd amendment to the Constitution… 😉 🤣
lelinator said:
Have you heard of relativity? It was in all the papers…I do believe that you could even Google it.

Sorry, but like Bradski, I do sometimes get snarky.
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whatistrue said:
That’s not snarky. That’s outright insulting, and I won’t put up with it from anyone. Welcome to the Ignore bucket.
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Oh, play nice, guys…! @lelinator, the question is whether theories of relativity and of quantum mechanics absolutely fit hand-in-glove. I think there’s sufficient lack of consensus – at least in terms of the latter – to suggest that this isn’t cast in stone… no? So, to repeat the question @whatistrue asked: what’s the generally accepted evidence that the two fields are absolutely in concord with each other?
lelinator said:
That would also make you a solipsist…because solipsism is the epitome of agnosticism.
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Well… to be fair, ‘solipsism’ is kinda like agnosticism on LSD. Just sayin’…
 
i personally think you are all forgetting something very, VERY basic.
our human minds are plain old not capable of understanding God!
He is so far above us that are limited minds cannot comprehend the
what, how, and why’s of His eternal mysteries. enter…faith!
enter…love and how Jesus loves!!!
 
Fauken said:
If I put a bowl of chicken in front of my dog and I know for a fact he’ll run over and eat it,
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You don’t know that for sure. Something unexpected could happen.
Gorgias said:
And God knows what you will choose to do.
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Only the present exists. The future and the past do not exist. How can God know about something that does not exist? Can God know about how to make a square circle?
 
AlNg said:
Only the present exists. The future and the past do not exist.
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To our view. God exists in eternity, and not within the constraints in which we experience the universe. To God, all is an eternal ‘now’.
 
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