Free Will in the Westminster Confession of Faith

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Yes it does. In the Westminster Confession of Faith man is not a free moral agent.
 
Directly to the point, if man can’t refuse God then he doesn’t have free moral agency.

This freedom presented by the confession is only a simulation of freedom because according to the Confession God is sovereign over the entire process start to finish. The man only thinks he’s cooperating.

This is not free moral agency.
 
Wrong. Old ground. I think you and I are done talking about this.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
They are punished for their own sins. Each would have eaten the fruit in the garden.
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Unjust.
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Everything God does is good and right and just.

If you want to blaspheme, that is up to you. Blasphemy is a sin, by the way.
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Muslims have an idea of blasphemy as well- are we guilty of blasphemy against the one true God when we reject Allah?

Similarly, we can’t be guilty of blaspheming the one true God when we reject a caricature of Him. That’s what the Calvinist God is- a caricature of the Lord, and no one is guilty of blaspheming Him when we reject a false idea of Him.

We’re mostly all Catholics here, so don’t act surprised when we say Calvinism is false. If we thought it were true, we’d be Calvinists.
 
Thom18 said:
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SojournerOnEarth:
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Vonsalza:
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SojournerOnEarth:
They are punished for their own sins. Each would have eaten the fruit in the garden.
Click to expand...
Unjust.
Click to expand...
Everything God does is good and right and just.

If you want to blaspheme, that is up to you. Blasphemy is a sin, by the way.
Click to expand...
Muslims have an idea of blasphemy as well- are we guilty of blasphemy against the one true God when we reject Allah?

Similarly, we can’t be guilty of blaspheming the one true God when we reject a caricature of Him. That’s what the Calvinist God is- a caricature of the Lord, and no one is guilty of blaspheming Him when we reject a false idea of Him.

We’re mostly all Catholics here, so don’t act surprised when we say Calvinism is false. If we thought it were true, we’d be Calvinists.
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He said God is unjust. That is blasphemy. We worship the same God. There is only one God. There is no ‘Calvinist God’ versus a ‘Catholic God’.

I’m not surprised you say Calvinism is false.
 
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SojournerOnEarth said:
In heaven?
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That’s an interesting comment, because heaven is the only place where we’re so overwhelmed by Absolute Goodness that we have no desire for anything else, no attraction to sin and away from God. Redemption doesn’t accomplish that on its own. For that we need the full direct experience or vision of God. If God simply intended to bring an imperfect created being into the fullness of His beauty and glory with the total happiness and satisfaction for man that this entails He may as well have just granted Adam & Eve the Beatific Vision to begin with.

Instead God wants us to develop a hunger and thirst for righteousness, for Him, before we attain that goal, with the possibility of always turning back away from Him. He wants us to participate in our own justice, as a matter of our own justice. He’s building something, something worthy and noble of us as we orient ourselves towards and approach the perfection He created us to have. Then, as we’ve obeyed, investing our talents like the servants in the parable, we attain to the resurrection of the dead as Paul strove towards but hadn’t yet obtained in Phil 3, with more expected from those given more (Luke 12:48). That’s what we’re here for, to garner the wisdom, with God’s help, to abandon the evil that we observe and participate in-that we know- every day in this fallen world, and embrace the good, increasingly, in word and deed. Then He’ll be the judge of how well we did-with what we were given.
 
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We’ve been over it. That is not all I have. And we have been over that.
 
No, he said that the “Calvinist God” is unjust. He obviously doesn’t believe in your idea of who God is. Like I said, we see the Calvinist idea of God as a caricature of the true God.
 
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“Thom18 said:
No, he said that the “Calvinist God” is unjust. He obviously doesn’t believe in your idea of who God is. Like I said, we see the Calvinist idea of God as a caricature of the true God.
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It is sad that you do so.
 
🤷‍♂️ At the moment, I’m more concerned about false charges of blasphemy than how “sad” something is.
 
We just can’t quite stomach a god who’d send a being to eternal torment who had no say, no choice, in his guilt, in his having a so-called “sin nature”.
 
fhansen said:
We just can’t quite stomach a god who’d send a being to eternal torment who had no say, no choice, in his guilt, in his having a so-called “sin nature”.
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We had a say and choice in Adam, and then we duplicate that choice in our own lives. We had free will. We used it, and are liable to judgement. Does that make God unjust?

Would God be just if Jesus had not died on the cross for us, but instead had simply sent us all to hell? Or is that salvific act necessary for Him to be just? God is just outside of creation, and would be just in not sending Jesus. Jesus came out of love for fallen mankind.
 
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Statements about God are statements about God. It was not a false charge. It was blasphemy.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
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fhansen:
We just can’t quite stomach a god who’d send a being to eternal torment who had no say, no choice, in his guilt, in his having a so-called “sin nature”.
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We had a say and choice in Adam, and then we duplicate that choice in our own lives. We had free will. We used it, and are liable to judgement. Does that make God unjust?

Would God be just if Jesus had not died on the cross for us, but instead had simply sent us all to hell? Or is that salvific act necessary for Him to be just? God is just outside of creation, and would be just in not sending Jesus. Jesus came out of love for fallen mankind.
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A God that dooms anyone besides Adam for the sin of Adam is unjust. luckily, that’s not our God.

Now did we inherit nature as changed by Adam? Of course. But the sin of Adam is not a personal stain upon anyone as per the catechism.

Mankind is imbued with a free will to acceptor reject God. It is only on that basis that God’s justice becomes just.

Calvinism denies the existence of this free moral agency, as we’ve clear shown from the WCF.
 
But if man has no choice but to sin, because of Adam, then he has no choice at all.
 
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You are repeating things already shown to be wrong.

I am done talking to you.
 
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