Freemason Apologetics

[trth_skr]

mosher:

I am glad that you and SDA2RC gave palmtopper the advice to demit. If you did not, I would feel uncomfortable with further discussion here. I still feel that you are minimizing the issue of freemasonry. I will use John Salza’s site to challenge some of your assertions. John Salza was a 32 degree Scottich Rite freemason, who demitted. He is Catholic. He has written the book Masonry Unmasked: An Insider Reveals the Secrets of the Lodge which will be published this fall by Our Sunday Visitor.

mosher:

The problem is not so much in the Blue Lodge per se. In the Blue Lodge we are taught to invoke the aid and blessing of God before any event in our lives. We are taught that we are to keep the confidence of our brothers unless it is unlawful or harmful. We are taught to protect the sanctifty of virginity and purity. We are taught that we are to gain knowledge because of the need to live the life of virtue. In this there is nothing intrinsically wrong…

…While masonry in any form is no religion it …

John Salza:

…Freemasonry has a very formal religious system which includes a belief in God as the Grand Architect of the Universe, the immortality of the soul and the resurrection of the body. Masonry also believes that man can achieve salvation by his good works, independent of God’s gift of grace. Notwithstanding its belief in God, resurrection of the body, and salvation by works, Masonry does not require its members to believe in Jesus Christ or His Church…

…Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).

Freemasonry’s teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry’s religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge’s prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism…

John also has the three rites of the blue lodge on his site.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[David_Zampino]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

I can’t believe that the Catholic Church is no longer concerned about the threat of Freemasonry! They are using our philosophy and theology to their own ends, and it is growing at a rapid rate! I am shocked that first of all nobody seems to be concerned about this, and secondly that the thread on the subject was closed! Nobody is worried about the Freemasons anymore? You really, really should be. The goal of freemasonry from the beginning has been a one-world church and govt, and they are moving closer to that goal everyday. Eventually you guys are going to have to stop obessessing with the protestants and deal with the New Age threat – because that is where the real threat is. Catholics need to take their heads out of the sand and take a stand against the global institution that has vowed to extinguish the Church more than once! Do you think this is no longer their goal? Or is it that all the Catholics are okay with freemasonry now, since your favorite president is a Freemason? If George Bush says it’s okay, then it must be, right?

The research I’ve done has shown that 14 (out of 43) American Presidents were Freemasons, with questions about 3 more. Neither George Bush was on the list.

Blessings,

 

[David_Zampino]

RCCDefender:

My brother (not a Catholic) is a freemason, 32nd degree. I worry about his salvation constantly. My mom thinks I am absolutley silly for this. There have been several threads on Freemasons. There have been many, many presidents who are/were freemasons. Rumors abound that the government was basically founded and controlled by freemasons. I’ve come to the point where I don’t even think I can vote any more. So, please don’t tell me I’m not worried about freemasons.

Fourteen US Presidents were freemasons with three others connected in some way.

Not all were active – but some, including a few who were evangelical Christians were.

Eight of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were as well; again with varying levels of participation.

A major influence on the founding of the nation? Yes, but possibly not in the way one would think. Lodges and other secret societies were ideal places for planning the American Revolution (or any revolution, for that matter – see Robert Heinlein’s SciFi novel "If This Goes On . . . ". The influence of Enlightenment Deism was probably philosophically more influental.

Blessings,

 

[trth_skr]

David Zampino:

The research I’ve done has shown that 14 (out of 43) American Presidents were Freemasons, with questions about 3 more. Neither George Bush was on the list…

…A major influence on the founding of the nation?..

Blessings,

Both George Bush’s were Skull & Bones (as was John Kerry). This is a Yale based masonic-like secret society.

See this, too:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85429

P.S. I am unable to indepenmdently corroborate my statement that the Catholic Cathedral has a masonic cornerstone- Gerry Matatics did claim this.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[David_Zampino]

trth_skr:

Both George Bush’s were Skull & Bones (as was John Kerry). This is a Yale based masonic-like secret society.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

This I was aware of. But while freemasonry is a secret society, not all secret societies are masonic. Many colleges and universities have such societies. I’m certainly not defending them – but I don’t necessarily equate a college club with a life-long membership in an international organization.

Blessings,

 

[puzzleannie]

okay assume your hysteria has infected me, and assume further that you have convinced the Vatican that Freemasonry is the antichrist. What course of action do you suggest if the danger from this anachronistic organization is as terrible as you claim? Burning at the stake? Pogroms?

 

[trth_skr]

puzzleannie:

okay assume your hysteria has infected me, and assume further that you have convinced the Vatican that Freemasonry is the antichrist. What course of action do you suggest if the danger from this anachronistic organization is as terrible as you claim? Burning at the stake? Pogroms?

First, no one said freemasonry was the antichrist; though it could be an organization used by such an individual.

Second the popes in the Vatican itself have written quite a few encycicals dealing with freemasonry, so they are aware of the issue.

The first and foremost reason to discuss this is to be sure that Catholics are aware about what freemasonry really is.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[tiny_smommy]

Finally, a little discussion going! Thank God!

George Bush is most definately a Freemason. In order to become a member of the Skull and Bones your family has to be high ranking Masons. And they are.

I understand that all the old guys (no offense) treat Freemasonry like a fraternity, and they balk at the idea of Lucifer worship, and that’s because most of them have not read Morals and Dogma, or Mackay’s encyclopedia, but I have. There is nothing secret about the (witch)Craft anymore. It is all out in the open. Historically there have been 3 phases of Masonry: operative (actual working stone masons), speculative (the secret shananagans), and now phase 3, which is applied. They are now in the Applied phase. Who are they applying it to? US! All of us.

The young recruits are all into the occult stuff. The old guys have been denying for the last 25 years that their fraternity is a study of the occult, and now here are these young recruits, and all they want to do is study the occult! They love it. I have a very dear friend whose grandfather was a Freemason and left suddenly, never telling anybody why. We can all guess. My friend has been approached by 3 different lodges to join. He has refused every time because, even though he is not Catholic, he is a Christian, and he has read Morals and Dogma, and he knows the score. He has several friends, however who have accepted, and they talk with him quite freely about the “secrets” of the (witch)Craft. There are no more secrets. The Freemasons are ready to act, and to bring in as many young converts as possible. It is the beginning of the new world Gnostic religion. They promise special knowledge to these young converts. They read books that only Masons can order, about every kind of evil you can imagine. Did you know that these guys believe that they are practicing “white” magic to save the world! I’m not kidding. That’s what they say. They think that if the Freemasons weren’t performing these evil rituals then the world would fall into chaos! It’s truely frightening.

You all should take Freemasonry very, very seriously. You should learn how to combat their gnosticism. It is everywhere and it is growing more and more intense.

Here is the future of Freemasonry. This is a brand new Lodge with all young members. They want to take the message global. We are Catholics. They want to destroy us. This has been their stated goal over and over again. They want to destroy us from within now. They are within. Keep your eyes open. Don’t pass this off as some New Age fad. This is much more dangerous than any Protestantism.

uglofa.org/

 

[socalcarmelite]

Does anyone know what happened to two of our great presidents who were NOT masons?

What happens when many people in the family are masons?

The effects on the next few generations are really horrible.

Please don’t anyone get involved with them. If you have people in the family like this, have masses said, specifically family tree masses.

 

[St.Eric]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

You all should take Freemasonry very, very seriously. You should learn how to combat their gnosticism. It is everywhere and it is growing more and more intense.

Here is the future of Freemasonry. This is a brand new Lodge with all young members. They want to take the message global. We are Catholics. They want to destroy us. This has been their stated goal over and over again. They want to destroy us from within now. They are within. Keep your eyes open. Don’t pass this off as some New Age fad. This is much more dangerous than any Protestantism.

uglofa.org/

I do take it very seriously. I also take the Words of our savior very seriously when he was telling Peter about the Church…“the gates of Hell shall not prevail against her in this age or in the next…” The devils tremble at the sound of his name… :yup:

 

[St.Eric]

socalcarmelite:

Does anyone know what happened to two of our great presidents who were NOT masons?

What happens when many people in the family are masons?

The effects on the next few generations are really horrible.

Please don’t anyone get involved with them. If you have people in the family like this, have masses said, specifically family tree masses.

Please elaborate…I am interested.

 

[tiny_smommy]

With that kind of attitude the antichrist himself could sit in Peter’s chair and you would bow down and accept his mark. He would be an anti-pope, obviously, but you might not be aware of that.

 

[St.Eric]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

With that kind of attitude the antichrist himself could sit in Peter’s chair and you would bow down and accept his mark. He would be an anti-pope, obviously, but you might not be aware of that.

Uh, that would make Christ a liar wouldn’t it? I don’t beleive he would deceive us like that. All heretics of the church have had light shined upon them and they were removed. If your line of reasoning was right, then Luther should have ascended to the Papacy. Instead he was cast out. Please elaborate in case I am missing something.

 

[David_Zampino]

socalcarmelite:

Does anyone know what happened to two of our great presidents who were NOT masons?

What happens when many people in the family are masons?

The effects on the next few generations are really horrible.

Please don’t anyone get involved with them. If you have people in the family like this, have masses said, specifically family tree masses.

I’m assuming that you are referring to assaination. Let’s look at the facts. Four US Presidents have been assainated.

Abraham Lincoln – 1865
James Garfield – 1881
William McKinley – 1901
John Kennedy – 1963

Of these four, Garfield and McKinley were freemasons. Lincoln applied for membership in an Illinois lodge, but changed his mind when he decided to run for the presidency. Kennedy was not a freemason.

Lincoln was replaced by Andrew Johnson, who was a freemason.

Garfield was replaced by Chester Arthur, who was not a freemason.

McKinley was replaced by Theodore Roosevelt, who was an active freemason.

Kennedy was replaced by Lyndon Johnson, who had taken his 1st degree, but then chose never to continue.

I am not a freemason and never have been one, but unless your presidential scenario is different from what I have presented, I am somehow missing your point.

Blessings,

 

[David_Zampino]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

Finally, a little discussion going! Thank God!

George Bush is most definately a Freemason. In order to become a member of the Skull and Bones your family has to be high ranking Masons. And they are.

Primary source material, please.

Blessings,

 

[David_Zampino]

David Zampino:

Fourteen US Presidents were freemasons with three others connected in some way.

The list of US Presidents who were freemasons is as follows (and I have confirmed this through both masonic and anti-masonic sources). I’ve also listed their religious affiliations.

George Washington – Episcopalian
James Monroe – Episcopalian
Andrew Jackson – Presbyterian
James Polk – Presbyterian/Methodist
James Buchanan – Presbyterian
Andrew Johnson – No specific demonination
James Garfield – Disciples of Christ
William McKinley – Methodist
Theodore Roosevelt – Dutch Reformed/Episcopalian
William Howard Taft – Unitarian
Warren Harding – Baptist
Franklin Roosevelt – Episcopalian
Harry Truman – Southern Baptist
Gerald Ford – Episcopalian

Blessings,

 

[asquared]

tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:

I can’t believe that the Catholic Church is no longer concerned about the threat of Freemasonry! ?

your evidence that the Catholic church is not concerned about freemasonry? your evidence that it should be? your prescription if freemasonry is a threat to the Catholic Church? what precise action do you suggest the Vatican take against this menace if it is a serious threat? What is the point of a list of American Presidents who may or may not have been freemasons? Is this a discussion of the Catholic Church stance on freemasonry or what? Do you seriously suggest the Catholic Church should take some action against American presidents, past, present or future? I am unable to determine what anybody is getting at with this thread.

 

[bones_IV]

mosher:

I can cite you the language that is used in the Baltimore Book of Prayers. The use of the term is ancient and is not related to the diest view of the world. Now, that is not to say that a deist could not use the term for his own purposes but that is nto the intent of the title given to God the Father.

That arguement holds no ground. That is a blasphoumous thing to say about the Baltimore Catechism. They use it with an anti-Catholic agenda.

 

[bones_IV]

Uh, that would make Christ a liar wouldn’t it? I don’t beleive he would deceive us like that. All heretics of the church have had light shined upon them and they were removed. If your line of reasoning was right, then Luther should have ascended to the Papacy. Instead he was cast out. Please elaborate in case I am missing something.

Tiny’s mommy would have a problem with what St. Bellarmine says in that Rome will never be the seat of the AntiChrist. And he also said that a Pope could never become an AntiChrist.

 

[RCCDefender]

David Zampino:

Fourteen US Presidents were freemasons with three others connected in some way.
Blessings,

So, that makes 17 presidents affiliated with Freemasonry, including our first president (are two of those three others you mentioned Abe Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson?). Out of 43 presidents that’s almost half, which is a lot, I believe.