Freemason Apologetics

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The Knights of Columbus made their peace with the Freemasons long ago. This would not have happened if the there had not been a reason to do so. The American hierarchy would have been up in arms if it was wrong to do so.

As a matter of fact, during the early part of the last century, about 1912, the KKK were spreading a malicious “fake oath” the Knights of Columbus were supposed to take proving that the Knights were tools of the Pope, vicious, and intent on killing Protestant heretics and overthrowing the American system. It was the Freemasons who came to the rescue of the Knights and allied with them against the KKK. One Freemason offered a $1,000 reward to anyone who could prove the fake oath to be authentic. No one came forward to prove it.
 
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RCCDefender:
So, that makes 17 presidents affiliated with Freemasonry, including our first president (are two of those three others you mentioned Abe Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson?). Out of 43 presidents that’s almost half, which is a lot, I believe.
The whole foundation of the US is based on a philosophy more compatible with masonry than Catholicism. The power comes from the people, not God. Secularism is enforced. The federal constitution does not even mention or thank God for blessings. Many state constitutions do. It is clear that the naturalistic / deistic mindset of masonry and realted philosophies of many of the founding fathers is an influence on our government system.

In a minimalist way it has served Catholics, because at least we could practice our religion privately, but I do ont think that this is what God expects of us.

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
 
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RCCDefender:
So, that makes 17 presidents affiliated with Freemasonry, including our first president (are two of those three others you mentioned Abe Lincoln and Lyndon Johnson?). Out of 43 presidents that’s almost half, which is a lot, I believe.
Lincoln applied for membership, then withdrew it.

Johnson took the first degree, then decided not to pursue it.

Reagan, while President, was never a freemason, but was given an “honarary membership” by the Shriners for some charitable work that he did.

Believe me, I am certainly not justifying freemasonry one bit – but I am concerned about some of the rhetoric I’ve heard suggested that all, or virtually all, prominent American leaders were active freemasons.

Blessings,
 
tiny'(name removed by moderator)my:
Finally, a little discussion going! Thank God!

George Bush is most definately a Freemason. In order to become a member of the Skull and Bones your family has to be high ranking Masons. And they are.

I understand that all the old guys (no offense) treat Freemasonry like a fraternity, and they balk at the idea of Lucifer worship, and that’s because most of them have not read Morals and Dogma, or Mackay’s encyclopedia, but I have. There is nothing secret about the (witch)Craft anymore. It is all out in the open. Historically there have been 3 phases of Masonry: operative (actual working stone masons), speculative (the secret shananagans), and now phase 3, which is applied. They are now in the Applied phase. Who are they applying it to? US! All of us.

The young recruits are all into the occult stuff. The old guys have been denying for the last 25 years that their fraternity is a study of the occult, and now here are these young recruits, and all they want to do is study the occult! They love it. I have a very dear friend whose grandfather was a Freemason and left suddenly, never telling anybody why. We can all guess. My friend has been approached by 3 different lodges to join. He has refused every time because, even though he is not Catholic, he is a Christian, and he has read Morals and Dogma, and he knows the score. He has several friends, however who have accepted, and they talk with him quite freely about the “secrets” of the (witch)Craft. There are no more secrets. The Freemasons are ready to act, and to bring in as many young converts as possible. It is the beginning of the new world Gnostic religion. They promise special knowledge to these young converts. They read books that only Masons can order, about every kind of evil you can imagine. Did you know that these guys believe that they are practicing “white” magic to save the world! I’m not kidding. That’s what they say. They think that if the Freemasons weren’t performing these evil rituals then the world would fall into chaos! It’s truely frightening.

You all should take Freemasonry very, very seriously. You should learn how to combat their gnosticism. It is everywhere and it is growing more and more intense.

Here is the future of Freemasonry. This is a brand new Lodge with all young members. They want to take the message global. We are Catholics. They want to destroy us. This has been their stated goal over and over again. They want to destroy us from within now. They are within. Keep your eyes open. Don’t pass this off as some New Age fad. This is much more dangerous than any Protestantism.

uglofa.org/
This is just plain silliness and just the type of ill-informed falsities that I have been trying to overcome for years now.

First of all I am glad that many here have taken the time to do a little work and actually work with facts (truth) rather than hysteria. Such thinking comes from reading too much Malachi Martin and listening to too much Coast to Coast AM.
 
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trth_skr:
mosher:

I am glad that you and SDA2RC gave palmtopper the advice to demit. If you did not, I would feel uncomfortable with further discussion here. I still feel that you are minimizing the issue of freemasonry. I will use John Salza’s site to challenge some of your assertions. John Salza was a 32 degree Scottich Rite freemason, who demitted. He is Catholic. He has written the book Masonry Unmasked: An Insider Reveals the Secrets of the Lodge which will be published this fall by Our Sunday Visitor.
After reading the quotations given from John Salza I would respond as such:
…Freemasonry has a very formal religious system which includes a belief in God as the Grand Architect of the Universe, the immortality of the soul and the resurrection of the body. Masonry also believes that man can achieve salvation by his good works, independent of God’s gift of grace. Notwithstanding its belief in God, resurrection of the body, and salvation by works, Masonry does not require its members to believe in Jesus Christ or His Church…
While I would grant that there is a semi-palagian tendency of thinking in freemasonry I would contend that it is not relavent because of a flawed premise in the above quote. The author carefully uses the term “religious system” and while I don’t question motives I must assume that he is using the term religion and religion equavocially which is problamatic. As I stated earlier as even Abert Pike said in Morals and Dogmas, “freemasonry is not a religion but it is religious in nature.” This archaic usage of the term religion is a general term to describe an institution where members come together for the common good. It is not the usage that us Catholics are accustomed to hearing or using. Further, for us religion must include a creedal system of which Masonry does not have nor does it give a plan for salvation as the author alludes to falselyin the quote.
…Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).
The problem with this is that the same argument can be said about any fraternal organization that requires its membership to have a belief in God including the Boy Scouts. To argue this point I would also have to argue that the American Government is just as contrary to the faith as freemasonry.
Freemasonry’s teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry’s religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge’s prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism…
This would be true if the original premise of religiosity were valid however it is in that premise that the author hinges his argument and it is that very premise that is in error. Further, the usages of the name and symbols pertaining to God are far from unique and are gleened mostly from Hebrew usage.

All in all I would agree completely with the author if masonry were a religion or even posed itself as a religion. However the reality is that masonry is intrinsically opposed to being tauted as such and this is made very plain in fundamental masonic literature.
Freemasonry is not a religion. No stretching of one’s imagination can find the necessary elements to characterize anything in ancient craft Masonry as a religion. As a total structure it has no dogma, and no theology: it saves no souls and it competes with no organized religion. It accepts good men from every clime regardless of their religious beliefs.
  • Religion, Coil’s Masonic Encyclopedia revised edition. Macoy Publishing & Masonic Supply Co., INC. 1995:Richmond, VA pp. 512-518
This is just one small paragraph of 6 large pages on the issue of religion and freemasonry in Coil’s which is considered a definitive source.
 
As an Ex-Mason becoming a Catholic, I have to agree far more with Mosher and SDA2RC than with much of the reactionary and alarmist drivel being posted.

I, too, was (am) a 32nd Scottish Rite mason, as well as a Knight Templar of the York Rite. Additionally I was a Noble of the Mystic Shrine (Shriner), and a member of the OES.

Just a few comments from this particular penut gallery:

*When beginning my catholic journey, as informed as I was, the issue of my being a mason was of central importance in the early part. While the opinions within the Diocese were somewhat contratictory, the final “call” was that I must resign only my official positions as an officer or official of any of the masonic bodies, and to refrain from being a participant of any lodge business. Given the small size of my lodges, and the necessity of having to step in to perform the Work, this determination has effectively caused me to resign (in the practical sense) my full membership (though not entirely in a technical sense as I am a life member of my Blue Lodge and York Rite bodies, thus resignation, as a technical point, really isn’t possible). Yes, I have resigned all my leadership positions, as asked, and my lack of participation will require my membership to be dropped NPD in the remaining organizations.

*Despite the tangible lurch created when I left, and some persons’ assertion of diabolical cult-like behavior among masons, they have been fully supportive of my decision (unlike the church I left…), as as another former mason put, they remember their Obligation enough to know that God comes before Lodge, and therefore have been very respectful of my move.

*While I hope that the Church will reconsider its Ban; I respect it, and am obedient to it. Furthermore, I can see a few reasons for it.

*In my current assessment, perhaps molded by the York Rite’s approach to masonry more than the SR (which I find easy to reconcile, cheifly by the “masonic” insistence on the member re-interpretting the symbols into their own faith system, and the highly sysmbolic and allegorical SR ssytem), I find that the big “problem” with Masonry, is that it is inherently Protestant in nature. While it does not hold all religions equal, as asserted constantly, it philosophical teachings leave only (again, imho) room for a Christianity that is acceptable to protestants, exclusive to Catholic (or EOx) regligious systems.

*I find the interpretation of the Royal Secret provided previously very intriguing, and would like to see how it was developed, if possible.

*Just for fun, consider in the Sephir hebraica, written by Albert Pike, which contains exemplifications and direct expoundings on various masonic “words”, that he made a very strong case for the idea that the Grand Architect of the Universe was the Son/Christ, rather than the Father as usually asumed. (remember that in American lodges, the constituants tend to be predominately of a judeo-christian background, though I suppose an individual lodge might be different)

*While some interpret it to be so, GM Hiram Abiff is not, in any consistent manner, an allegory of Christ; nor is his “ressurrection” either an allusion to Christ’s (or ours), or a ressurrection in fact. Hiram is simply removed from one grave and laced into another. Hiram does not represent any person, event or thing; but an abstact concept.

*Just because an organization requires a masonic membership or affiliation does not mean that the body itself has anything to do with Masonry, or is actually supported by the presiding Grand Lodge. a 33deg SGIG cannot tell a york rite Grand commander what to do, any more than they can tell the Grand Master of a State what they can do; yes, there is cooperation, but no authority of one body to control another. In the end, the Grand Lodge, through its consituent lodges (if I recall my Jursiprudence correctly), can determine not to recognize, and therefore disallow, their memberships from joining any such “appendant bodies” such as the York or Scottish Rite.

*Yes, there were historical reasons and animosities between European (especially in France and Italy) Masonry and the Church; but again, these have no actual/practical bearing in regards to American Freemasonry (which isn’t even united on a national level anyway). True, there is the “separation of Church and State” issue; but given the current tenor of the Church to keep itself out of direct secular authority, I cant really see this as a current “problem” of Catholic-Mason relations.
 
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BJRumph:
*I find the interpretation of the Royal Secret provided previously very intriguing, and would like to see how it was developed, if possible.
During tenure as a member of the Scottish Rite I had the ability to spend much time in study of masonic material including the degrees. At the time I was considered a very promising masonic researcher. I held corospondence with persons who are still involved with such work including Art de Hoyos who was at the time the Supreme Historian for the Southern Jurisdiction. Through extensive research of the degrees, material and the symbolism of the Scottish Rite and through work with other experienced members I posed my thoughts on the Royal Secret. In every instance I was affirmed. It would be difficult for me to retrace my steps without having the degrees before me, but if you would like we could corrospond about it and I could do my best.
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BJRumph:
*Just for fun, consider in the Sephir hebraica, written by Albert Pike, which contains exemplifications and direct expoundings on various masonic “words”, that he made a very strong case for the idea that the Grand Architect of the Universe was the Son/Christ, rather than the Father as usually asumed. (remember that in American lodges, the constituants tend to be predominately of a judeo-christian background, though I suppose an individual lodge might be different)
Following the line of thinking of Pike I would agree with his assertion but only if using the full Scottish Rite system including the first three degrees done in the manner of the Scottish Rite instead of the Blue Lodge degree forms. As you may or may not know they are radically different. This is one of the reasons why initially membership in the Scottish Rite was only given to those who believed in a Trinity.
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BJRumph:
*Just because an organization requires a masonic membership or affiliation does not mean that the body itself has anything to do with Masonry, or is actually supported by the presiding Grand Lodge. a 33deg SGIG cannot tell a york rite Grand commander what to do, any more than they can tell the Grand Master of a State what they can do; yes, there is cooperation, but no authority of one body to control another. In the end, the Grand Lodge, through its consituent lodges (if I recall my Jursiprudence correctly), can determine not to recognize, and therefore disallow, their memberships from joining any such “appendant bodies” such as the York or Scottish Rite.
Correct. The lack of an uberstructure of heirarchy is hard for people to grasp. I recall that not too long ago there was a big problem with this because the Shrine was going to drop their requirment of receiving Knight Templar or the 32nd Degree in one of the two major appendant bodies. Thus they held a Cold Sands and initiated a man who was only a 3rd degree member. This sparked complaint from the Scottish and York Rites and in at least one state it caused the temporary suspension of the Shrine in that Grand Jurisdiction because at the end of the day the Grand Master of a jurisdiction (blue lodge) has the last say even though he himself may only be a 3rd degree mason.
 
Yes, the Sephir D’hebraim (eng title: “The Book of the Words”) (to correct my earlier post, though my copy is still in storage, so might have mispelled it yet again…) is one of Pike’s earlier works concerning the Scottish Rite system, but like much of what I have read of Pike, it contained Blue Lodge degrees as being part of the continuous whole of the SR system (like in M&D), though the relevant section was in the SR degrees proper. Perhaps I will dig it out so as to provide you with a proper cite, if you are interested (and I’d understand if you arent).

While I was an officer in each of the SR bodies prior to converting to Catholicism, I was only able to participate in one Reunion as an officer, so I cannot claim any real depth of insight. I understand that reaching such a conclusion would require many paths of realization, and my own experience allows me to sympathize with not being able to reconstruct such a path. In truth, having thought it over, in order to follow any such path, I’d have to dig out my own sources and research it to an extent that I would not feel appropriate at this point in my Catholic formation (I am still going through RCIA at this time), especially for mere curiosity.

At any rate, I agree that there are aspects of the Masonic “system” that should cause legitimate ‘concern’ from a Catholic perspective; however, those points are not easily understood and therefore too many, imho, fall back on arguments that are patently either absurd, or false. Even my vague assertion (when asked) that “Masonry is an inherently Protestant organization” can be used incorrectly, even though it does characterize correctly (from my limited perspective) those issues which are at the root of the incompatibility. Note that, though I suggested that this characterization comes from my experience as a York Rite mason, it is more easily seen, in fact, from the positions necessary for a Christian to “hold” when participating in the SR.

Interestingly, when I was a the SR Fellows conference 2 years ago, I learned that one of the SC members was an active Deacon at his Catholic parish, so when I began my conversion process, I had emailed him to get his perspective & story. But, alas, I did not receive any return correspondance. Oh well.

At any rate, it is nice to know I am not the only one out there going, or have gone, through this.
 
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BJRumph:
Yes, the Sephir D’hebraim (eng title: “The Book of the Words”) (to correct my earlier post, though my copy is still in storage, so might have mispelled it yet again…) is one of Pike’s earlier works concerning the Scottish Rite system, but like much of what I have read of Pike, it contained Blue Lodge degrees as being part of the continuous whole of the SR system (like in M&D), though the relevant section was in the SR degrees proper. Perhaps I will dig it out so as to provide you with a proper cite, if you are interested (and I’d understand if you arent).
To my knowledge the only location in the US that practices the alternative first three degrees that stem from the direct work of Pike in the codification of the 33 SD degrees are the Red Lodges in Lousiana. While there is much discussion of these three degrees in M&D it is necessarily different in kind then the Blue Lodge Degrees. In fact, if I recall, Pike actually at times makes a contrast between the two in M&D.
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BJRumph:
In truth, having thought it over, in order to follow any such path, I’d have to dig out my own sources and research it to an extent that I would not feel appropriate at this point in my Catholic formation (I am still going through RCIA at this time), especially for mere curiosity.
I agree with you. You should be placing those energies in studying the history and documents and culture of the Church. The fruit is much more important. To me, conversation concerning masonic “stuff” is more of a thought excercise with a touch of an attempt to help people seperate fact from fiction and most importantly help catholics who are or were masons understand why the Church has a restriction against the Craft because, as we know, most masons do not understand why the Church does not allow catholics to hold lodge membership.
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BJRumph:
At any rate, I agree that there are aspects of the Masonic “system” that should cause legitimate ‘concern’ from a Catholic perspective; however, those points are not easily understood and therefore too many, imho, fall back on arguments that are patently either absurd, or false. Even my vague assertion (when asked) that “Masonry is an inherently Protestant organization” can be used incorrectly, even though it does characterize correctly (from my limited perspective) those issues which are at the root of the incompatibility. Note that, though I suggested that this characterization comes from my experience as a York Rite mason, it is more easily seen, in fact, from the positions necessary for a Christian to “hold” when participating in the SR.
Agreed with some qualification. I would not claim (other than the York Rite) that masonry is essentially Protestant but rather that it is essentially secular (in the common usage of the term) with the one addative of requiring the belief in God. But not secular in the negative sense as in anti-religion" but secular in the sense that it is apart from religion. Yet philanthropic because it demands that members practice the corporal works of mercy and it calls its members to the practice of the cardinal virtues.
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BJRumph:
Interestingly, when I was a the SR Fellows conference 2 years ago, I learned that one of the SC members was an active Deacon at his Catholic parish, so when I began my conversion process, I had emailed him to get his perspective & story. But, alas, I did not receive any return correspondance. Oh well.
I am afraid that it is common to find many catholics that are associated with masonic organizations. This is because of a single error of a private leter from the CDF being made public and then snowballing into the belief that the restriction against membership in masonic organizations was lifted. Further, the removal of the specific reference to freemasonry in the Code of Canon Law caused some confusion.
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BJRumph:
At any rate, it is nice to know I am not the only one out there going, or have gone, through this.
You and me both brother, you and me both.
 
Yes, it can be confusing, especially when one wants to be confused the “right” way (ie in a permissive way).

Well, as mentioned, my characterization of the incompatabilities between Masonry and Catholicism are necessarily constructed from my own understanding of Masonry itself, and how I reconciled/applied it to my own worldveiw. I had always veiwed it from a Christian religious perspective principally, and only delved into it as a purely secular philosophy as a secondary consideration, such as when assessing and assimilating the SR degrees, which, as you noted, are occasionally derived from non-Christian religious practices, so as to translate them into something viable and useful in my particular religious veiws. As such, even in the Blue Lodge ritual, I drew more religious elements out of them than what either of us would objectively assert is intended by the modern American ritual.

Basically, I took to heart the “masonic” idea that the ritual was of necessity religiously “neutral”, but that each Mason was to interpret it from their own religious Faith, which for me is from the POV of Christianity. This is also why I use a religious term to characterize the “problems”, rather than a philosophical one.

Note (for the others reading this) I am not suggesting that Freemasonry is a religion; it is plainly & truely a philosophy/philosophical system, though it is one that, IMHO, was meant to be integrated into one’s total worldveiw, and therefore impacts and recognizes religious faith as a reality (rather than simply trying to replace religion as some philosophies attempt).

While I attempted to read everything I could get my hands on when active, I have to admit I had heard nothing of the Red Lodges you mentioned. I am assuming they are clandestine lodges?

Granted, I never completed M&D (I only got as far as the 28th Deg in my readings), but while Pike critisized Craft Masons who did not explore beyond the MM degree, and so seemed to critisize the first three degrees, he does make a point of including them in his various books as part of the “whole” system, rather than (as I would expect from more current delvings into the SR system) simply starting at the ritualistic beginnings of the SR, the 4th Deg.

Ironically, if it hadn’t been for the religious anti-masons, I would never have bothered reading any of Pike’s works, as they especially love to mis-quote him. Even as an SR mason, I would have probably contented myself with the exerpts in BtL and the actual degree work itself. 😛

At any rate, at this point of my journey, while I do miss Lodge and my participation (which was with many “hats”), I cannot say with 100% honesty that I want the Church to lift the Ban on masonry.

Here is a question for all of you ex-mason Catholics: Have you joined the KoC? Why/why not? The preist who gave me the instruction to resign my leaderships within the Lodge suggested that I should/would be interested in joining the KoC when elegible, but I am still torn for a variety of reasons. What little I have been able to find out through research says that the KoC is simply the replacement for the Lodge for Catholics, but that seems wrong somehow.
 
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thistle:
Every Catholic knows or should know that it is not only a mortal sin to become a freemason but means ex-communication from the Church.
.
I didn’t know this! But I alsoi never wanted to become a freemason either.
 
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BJRumph:
Basically, I took to heart the “masonic” idea that the ritual was of necessity religiously “neutral”, but that each Mason was to interpret it from their own religious Faith, which for me is from the POV of Christianity. This is also why I use a religious term to characterize the “problems”, rather than a philosophical one.
Actually it is funny, I initially joined because I wanted to join a goup where I could practice charity and in turn it was through masonic research that I started to come back to my faith. God works as He wills.
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BJRumph:
While I attempted to read everything I could get my hands on when active, I have to admit I had heard nothing of the Red Lodges you mentioned. I am assuming they are clandestine lodges?
No, they are recognized but they are from the French System instead of the English system. Their first three degrees are radically different (more so than Prince Hall degrees). As you know it was the french system that Pike used for his primary codification of the 33 degrees and hence why the so called Red Lodge Degrees are the first three in the SR system.
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BJRumph:
Here is a question for all of you ex-mason Catholics: Have you joined the KoC? Why/why not? The preist who gave me the instruction to resign my leaderships within the Lodge suggested that I should/would be interested in joining the KoC when elegible, but I am still torn for a variety of reasons. What little I have been able to find out through research says that the KoC is simply the replacement for the Lodge for Catholics, but that seems wrong somehow.
Yes, I suggest that you join. The only drawback for me is that the Kof C degrees are poorly put together. They teach great things but in comparison of just the method (not the meat) it is seriously in need of some help. As one being accustomed to going through a degree system I found the three degrees fairly silly but that being said there message is obviously far superior.

The Knights of Columbus were not founded initially to be a counter to freemasonry. They were founded by Fr. Michael J McGivnney as a fraternal benefit society. In short the Knights were founded to provide life insurance to their members in a time where Catholics could not by life insurance and the numbers of catholic men dying was very high. Later, the knights became a counter to freemasonry and then even later because the charitable organization that they are today. However, everything in financially driven by the premiums paid for Life Insurance, Long Term Care Insurance and Annuities. BTW, in these financial issues they have the highest financial ratings in the Country and are considered a Fortune 750 and will be a 500 in the next couple years. There is no reason why all good catholic men should not be Knights at the very least for the benefits offered - which are second ot none.
 
Thanks for your reply Mosher, it helped answer a question that I really couldn’t get anywhere else without joining the KoC myself. It is hard to get any kind of answer to their approach to the Ritual as it compares to the masonic approach, when neither side is comfortable discussing it and neither has any experience to relate the two for comparison or contrast.

While I think you answered this in your post, so as I understand it more precisely I’ll ask directly: do you think that the ritualistic deficiencies are because of the ritual itself, or because of the organization’s and/or members’ attitude and treatment of it?

For instance, in our Lodge, while the blue degree rituals were still thought of as the heart of masonry, and therefore given proper treatment, these same individuals perceived the SR rituals as being more of a necessary formality (the “formality” turned to “evil” during those times between Reunions when we couldn’t get the new MMs into the SR fast enough :rolleyes: ) to getting new brothers into the SR business meetings (which the prevailing attitude of the time determined were what the SR was really all about), and so the ritual suffered drastically for years.

When I joined Masonry, the charity aspect was veiwed more as the proverbial “icing on the cake” than the primary motivator for me, though it later took equal importance for me (and the primary importance for the business aspects of the meetings), especially after being appointed to our statewide RiteCare board as the local regional director. In fact, at this point, it is my charitable work that I miss most about masonry.
 
Actually it is funny, I initially joined because I wanted to join a goup where I could practice charity and in turn it was through masonic research that I started to come back to my faith. God works as He wills.
True as true. While His path is Straight and Narrow, out of consideration for our individual weakness and error, He is willing to walk with us through a convoluted path indeed to lead us back to His way.
 
Hello,
I pulled this from another thread:

*Re: Which is the most conservative bishop in Usa?

More on Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz’s letter concerning his list of forbidden organizations, which is why I voted for him as the most orthodox Roman Catholic bishop in the country:

"All Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln are forbidden to be members of the organizations and groups listed below. Membership in these organizations or groups is always perilous to the Catholic Faith and most often is totally incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
*Planned Parenthood

Society of Saint Pius X(Lefebvre Group)

*Hemlock Society

*Call to Action

*Call to Action Nebraska

*Saint Michael the Archangel Chapel

*Freemasons

*Job’s Daughters

*DeMolay

*Eastern Star

*Rainbow Girls

*Catholics for a Free Choice

Any Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln who attain or retain membership in any of the above listed organizations or groups after April 15, 1996, are by that very fact (ipso-facto-latae sententiae) under interdict and are absolutely forbidden to receive Holy Communion.

Contumacious persistence in such membership for one month following the interdict on part of any such Catholics will by that very fact (ipso-facto-latae sententiae) cause them to be excommunicated. Absolution from these ecclesial censures is “reserved the Bishop.” This notice, when published in the Southern Nebraska Register, is a formal canonical warning.
By mandate of the Most Reverend Bishop of Lincoln.

(signed) Reverend Monsignor Timothy Thorburn Chancellor

March 19,1996" *

So, that’s good news!
 
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BJRumph:
While I think you answered this in your post, so as I understand it more precisely I’ll ask directly: do you think that the ritualistic deficiencies are because of the ritual itself, or because of the organization’s and/or members’ attitude and treatment of it?
It is a combination of the two. But, even in councils that are very particular about degree work there is, I believe, an intrinsic deficiency in the ritual itself. While it is impressive in its own rite and for those who have never been through another degree system it is impressive it has a long way to go to have the same dramatic effect on the candidate that the masonic rituals impart. Granted the masonic rituals have been around for hundreds of years as opposed to the KofC which stated in the late 1880’s so I would consider the degrees still in their infancy.
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BJRumph:
When I joined Masonry, the charity aspect was veiwed more as the proverbial “icing on the cake” than the primary motivator for me, though it later took equal importance for me (and the primary importance for the business aspects of the meetings), especially after being appointed to our statewide RiteCare board as the local regional director. In fact, at this point, it is my charitable work that I miss most about masonry.
Trust me, when you join the Knights you will have your hands full if you want to do charitable work. There is no lack of work - so to speak.
 
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super64:
Hello,
I pulled this from another thread:

*Re: Which is the most conservative bishop in Usa?

More on Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz’s letter concerning his list of forbidden organizations, which is why I voted for him as the most orthodox Roman Catholic bishop in the country:

"All Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln are forbidden to be members of the organizations and groups listed below. Membership in these organizations or groups is always perilous to the Catholic Faith and most often is totally incompatible with the Catholic Faith.
*Planned Parenthood

Society of Saint Pius X(Lefebvre Group)

*Hemlock Society

*Call to Action

*Call to Action Nebraska

*Saint Michael the Archangel Chapel

*Freemasons

*Job’s Daughters

*DeMolay

*Eastern Star

*Rainbow Girls

*Catholics for a Free Choice

Any Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln who attain or retain membership in any of the above listed organizations or groups after April 15, 1996, are by that very fact (ipso-facto-latae sententiae) under interdict and are absolutely forbidden to receive Holy Communion.

Contumacious persistence in such membership for one month following the interdict on part of any such Catholics will by that very fact (ipso-facto-latae sententiae) cause them to be excommunicated. Absolution from these ecclesial censures is “reserved the Bishop.” This notice, when published in the Southern Nebraska Register, is a formal canonical warning.
By mandate of the Most Reverend Bishop of Lincoln.

(signed) Reverend Monsignor Timothy Thorburn Chancellor

March 19,1996" *

So, that’s good news!
This is why I think that Bishop Bruskewitz is the finest bishop in the country. He takes his role as defender of souls seriously. He is one of the very few bishops that I see has having the qualities of the saintly bishops of the early Church.
 
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Mercurius:
Several GOOD books on Freemasonry and their TRUE origin can be here:

thedavincicodedemolished.com/freemasonry.html
I wish that I could accept these books as good. Unfortunatelly I have read a few such as “Behind the Lodge Door” in particular and selections from some of the others and they are not very accurate. Even the book researching the origins is not historically accurate noting that the earliest Lodge records are from Scotland in the 1400’s.
 
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mosher:
This is not completely correct. The reason why Jesus’ name is not used in prayer in the Lodge is simply because the prayer is made to God under the title of “The Grand Architect of the Universe” which is in fact a Catholic usage since the early Church. The story of Hiram Abif is not a parallel of Christ in the form of the ressurection but rather ressurection imagry is used to express an intellectual and moral point concerning a death to vice and ignorance and rising to virtue and study. Further oaths in any degree are taken on the “sacred book” of the individuals religion within bounds. Thus in every degree it is generally the OT unless one is taking the York Rite degrees which past the Royal Arch Degrees are exclusively Christian with a vow that includes the defense of Christianity.
Shouldn’t all Christians make their prayers to God “through Jesus Christ”? After all, did Christ say that what so ever we ask the Father in HIS name …

The fact that the Masons do not do this is an area of concern and points to something not being as it seems.
 
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