Freemasonry A Evil Group

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workingman said:
DallasTexas,
I believe I will have to retact my statement of St. Peters Square being a complete fact for now. I can not find sufficient evidence for it for now. I did find a second link you may find interesting though.

smotjnyc.org/history.htm
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You are absolutely wrong on your link workingman. You want to know what that organization does. We actually covered it in another thread. This is a link from the Knights Forum to an English newspaper Register from the Daily Telegraph about their relationship with our Church. Read it! theregister.co.uk/2008/08/04/knights_templar_pope/?HaHa
 
jam070406 said:
Why woud you question the Church’s stance?? :confused:
It has not changed.

Why form your opinion on a misguided or dissenting priest and not on Church teaching?
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I am not forming my opinion on one priest. I know full well what the CC teching is and the grave sin entailig masonic affiliation. When one can not keep a priest in line on a long standing teaching one does have to wonder how strongly they feel about it.
 
KyivAndrew said:
You are absolutely wrong on your link workingman. You want to know what that organization does. We actually covered it in another thread. This is a link from the Knights Forum to an English newspaper Register from the Daily Telegraph about their relationship with our Church. Read it! theregister.co.uk/2008/08/04/knights_templar_pope/?HaHa
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Thank you for finding a link. I have been searching for one for a while and just could not find it. This is a modern reposting of it. Do you have a link or know of a link for a more historical document? I retracted earlier just because I could not prove it.
 
workingman said:
I am not forming my opinion on one priest. I know full well what the CC teching is and the grave sin entailig masonic affiliation. When one can not keep a priest in line on a long standing teaching one does have to wonder how strongly they feel about it.
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As KyivAndrew pointed out, it doesn’t even state who the priest is. Besides, the story could be false for all we know.
Just stick with the Church and what it officially teaches.
 
workingman said:
Thank you for finding a link. I have been searching for one for a while and just could not find it. This is a modern reposting of it. Do you have a link or know of a link for a more historical document? I retracted earlier just because I could not prove it.
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Workingman, I don’t know what you mean by historic. The Daily Telegraph story is just from last year 2008, it’s a new lawsuit intended by this so-called Christian Order against the Vatican. They are accociated with the same order in America. The register story actually has a link to the American website. I hope this helps.
 
Here’s a link to the American organization. Click the forum link on top right and see what their members have to say about the Catholic Church.
osmth.org/
 
KyivAndrew said:
Workingman, I don’t know what you mean by historic. The Daily Telegraph story is just from last year 2008, it’s a new lawsuit intended by this so-called Christian Order against the Vatican. They are accociated with the same order in America. The register story actually has a link to the American website. I hope this helps.
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What I was looking for was a historical document on the original gathering of freemasons in St. Peters Square.
 
workingman said:
What I was looking for was a historical document on the original gathering of freemasons in St. Peters Square.
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Oh Sorry the link you originally gave sent to the Home Page of New York’s Knight Templar. On the protest I don’t have a link right now and I was just hoping to go to sleep but you guys are killin’ me.
 
Plus Workingman, the link you gave was to a non-Catholic Knights Templar order which was not the organization of blue lodges, york, scottish, that we have been discussing up until now. They deal in Templar fantasies and one of the lodge guys said he was interested. It’s baloney. I’ll find a REAL Historian’s quote on that and not some amateur Dan Brown type.
 
KyivAndrew said:
Oh Sorry the link you originally gave sent to the Home Page of New York’s Knight Templar. On the protest I don’t have a link right now and I was just hoping to go to sleep but you guys are killin’ me.
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Ya sur, The link I gave was one I stumbled uppon for Dallas Texas just as a intrerest point. I know about the NY Knight Templar. Just though interesting history. The document for the protest just seems to be illuding me at this time. If you could help tomarrow when you have time that would be great. I just can’t seem to finde it. Go figure I try and prove a CC point and historical fact and I can not find it.🤷
 
KyivAndrew said:
Plus Workingman, the link you gave was to a non-Catholic Knights Templar order which was not the organization of blue lodges, york, scottish, that we have been discussing up until now. They deal in Templar fantasies and one of the lodge guys said he was interested. It’s baloney. I’ll find a REAL Historian’s quote on that and not some amateur Dan Brown type.
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I realized that after the posting. What is baloney? I did not say I agreed with the sight. What on earth are you coming accrost short with me for? I have been defending theCC to this point. I am a former Mason and brought this to attentnion on the board.
 
workingman said:
I realized that after the posting. What is baloney? I did not say I agreed with the sight. What on earth are you coming accrost short with me for? I have been defending theCC to this point. I am a former Mason and brought this to attentnion on the board.
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Hey wait a minute. Sorry. I guess it’s true what they say about posting. You type quickly with good intentions and then after reading the post you quickly typed it seems wrongly worded. No I did not in anyway want to be SHORT with you. I’m just happy that an honest guy like you is posting. Typed words can’t express emotion so sorry. I didn’t mean anything and still am trying to keep up with what posts I’m responding to. This is causing exhaustion.

God Bless!
 
O.K. let’s cut one piece of the Masonic myth down before I can sleep. Some, I think Dallas mentioned looking into it.

Well here is a quote from a real Cambridge instructed writer Piers Paul Read whose The Templars is second to none and not like those Holy Blood Holy Grail nonsense books.
He writes for the English Conservative Magazine The Spectator

Responding to the lack of historical respectability to fairytale type stories of Masonic links with the Templars Read writes:

In contrast to the real story behind the Templars: "…with the advent of the Enlightenment in the seventeenth century there emerged a third view of the Templars as neither orthodox nor heretical Christians but rather as the high priests of an ancient and occult religion which predated Christ. It might be thought that an intellectual movement that prided itself on supplanting superstition with common sense would blow away the cobwebs of obfuscation that surrounded the Templars, but the Enlightenment was far from being the simple exercise of the rational faculties. (Rather than demystifying)…some eighteenth-century men found Templars, and turned them into a wild fantasy which for mistagogy and obfuscation equalled anything the old Catholic historiograpy cound offer. So successful was the enterprise that to this day it is impossible to approach the Templars without encountering the remnants, of even the full and gaudy robes, of eighteenth-century prejudice.

"The chief agents of this “Templarism”, the metamorphosis of the Templars from history into myth were the Freemasons … whose hypothesis was quite as fanciful as Parzival.

“Speculation did not end with the eighteenth century: in fact it has never been more feverish than it is today.”

THE foremost Templar historian in the world Malcolm Barber laughs at this little active masonic myth-making and fantasies which con Joe Public.

Any historian on the Knights Templar knows that it was exactly what it was: a society of warrior monks founded to protect Christianity and the holy sites. All those other recent bestsellers (i.e. on Rosslyn Chapel, Rennes-le-Chateau) to any real historian are pure fantasy and they know this, but the public loves buying books with no historical accuracy which charlatan writers put out, and which help some Masons fall for this whole Egypt-Templar-Freemasons Fairytale.

Here’s the link if you want to read real history on the Templars from Amazon amazon.com/Templars-Dramatic-Powerful-Military-Crusades/dp/0306810719
 
DallasTexas said:
Dirk,

Thank you. I appreciate your concern and your patience with me.

Please provide references.

Laying my cards on the table…

This is a subject to which I have devoted as much time as possible over the last 14+ months. I had heard of the Church’s disapproval of Freemasonry, but did not know the extent of it until I did further research. After studying the Church documents prohibiting Freemasonry, I was really quite puzzled. The organization described in those documents are not the organization that I know. In previous threads and post, we have discussed openly the accusations of the Church against the organization (from “anti-catholic” to relativism, rationalism, the oaths, etc). I have not been able to find a solid accusation yet.

I just read the book by John J. Robinson, “Born in Blood.” I realize that the origins of freemasonry is something that no one know for certain, but Robinson gave a really good work on his belief of the origins of the fraternity. A lot of pieces of the puzzle really seemed to come together.

Freemasonry having been derived from the Knights Templar answers a lot of the why’s… Especially regarding the Church’s stance.

Anyway… this is an area that I am still trying to research. Any additional information is greatly appreciated.

I have to say that with everything I know about the organization, there is nothing “evil” about it.

Thank you again.
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Hope not budding in but Freemasonry evolving from the Knights Templar is a pure and simple lie. Piers Paul Read and Malcom Barber, two real academics and not sheisters off to sell a fantasy book, are absolutely amazed at how in the last couple of years this has taken off. I just posted a link to one of these books in the thread above. I think you will, just as I did learn who the Templars really were. They were not the forebears of Freemasonry. The Freemasons invented this lineage by themselves in the 18th century. Hope this helps.
amazon.com/Templars-Dramatic-Powerful-Military-Crusades/dp/0306810719

May God Bless you.
 
workingman said:
I realized that after the posting. What is baloney? I did not say I agreed with the sight. What on earth are you coming accrost short with me for? I have been defending theCC to this point. I am a former Mason and brought this to attentnion on the board.
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Also, I guess I wrote sloppily. When I said baloney I meant not you or the site, but the argument that Freemasons could trace themselves back to Templars. That argument is what I called baloney. Sorry about that but I can see how misunderstanding can pop up.
God Bless you workingman.
 
And on the Pope’s Condemnation of Freemasonry, he does NOT differentiate between our continents’ and England’s Grand Lodge, and the Continental Europeans’ Grand Orients. Both are the same in the Church’s eyes.

Indeed, Dr. James Anderson, in drawing up Masonry’s Constitutions in the 1720s decided Freemasonry was better off without the Holy Trinity.

By 1816, most Christian traces from the New Testament had been removed from Masonic ritual. The Lodge became deChristianized.

With Christ removed, there really isn’t that much value anymore in pointing out that Lodge here is better than the Grand Orient’s propagation of laicite in France. It amounts to the same thing.

And so as not to just get involved in finding faults with the Vatican’s case, this is from the 1985 Methodist Conference on Freemasonry:

"In some rituals the candidate is told he is making a journey from darkness into light. This can only be interpreted as spiritual enlightenment, but in Christianity this can only be achieved through Christ. In the third degree the candidate is put to a symbolic death from which he is raised by Masonic ritual. In Christianity the same passage from death to life is achieved through Baptism. Masonry thus performs ceremonies which are equivalent to essential parts of the Christian practice and offer alterantives to important elements of Christian faith.
 
Dirk_Skene said:
I normally do not make long posts because I usually do not read them myself. The link is not the best of websites. A lot of anti Catholic stuff. But the oath was close to what I remember in my own lodge. Remember, each state in the US does it juuuust a little differently. The quote from Pike is easily traceable. And remember, Not all is taught in the blue lodge. And even in the scottish rite one has more & more opened. Pike himself taught that the worship of Lucifer was not to be sprung on the new initiate. I guess that was so as to not scare him off.

trosch.org/bks/blue_lodge.html

Albert Pike 33°
"That which we must say to a crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees - The Masonic Religion should be, by alll of us initates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine.

If Lucifer were not God, would Adonay whose deeds prove his cruelty, perdify and hatred of man, barbarism and repulsion for science, would Adonay and his priests, calumniate him?
Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also god. For the eternal law is that there is no light without shade, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, for the absolute can only exist as two gods: darkness being necessary to the statue, and the brake to the locomotive.

Thus, the doctrine of Satanism is a heresy; and the true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is struggling for humanity against Adonay, the God of Darkness and Evil."
Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World, July 14, 1889. Recorded by A.C. De La Rive in La Femme et l’Enfant dans la FrancMaconnerie Universelle on page 588
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it’s splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! Morals and Dogma page 321

Now, please get the whole book & read it. Please read it all.
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Dirk,

Thank you for your posting. This is the kind of information that I’m looking for.

However, I believe that much of the below comes from the Leo Taxil Hoax.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

Taxil wrote that Freemasonry was a bunch of devil-worshipers. He sold books explaining this. Then in April 1897 he called a press conference in Paris and said it was all made up.

Oddly enough much of his writings are still used today (even after Taxil himself admitted to lying). Chick publications has published one pamphlet using Taxil’s info…

The below page is an online edition of Morals and Dogma. Do you know the page number for the below listed exerts?
freemasons-freemasonry.com/apikefr.html

No one man speaks for masonry.

As is stated in the preface of “Morals and Dogma,” “Everyone is free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it a fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment.”

With that said, I find it hard to believe that Pike wrote a book on devil worshiping. Lucifer was another name for the morning star.

In the below passage from the King James version, Isaiah is not referring to Satan when he says lucifer.
biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=14&verse=12&version=9&context=verse

More of an explanation can be found at the below website.

masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm

Thank you again for posting.
 
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