Freemasonry A Evil Group

[Louie1983]

If anyone wants to know about freemasonry and why it’s worng, then i strongly recommend this site: scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html

The guy who runs this site was a former mason, a 32nd degree mason. pretty high up. on this page he refutes arguments from masons and he explains clearly why it’s wrong. He has experience to back it up and he knows his stuff in regards to the faith!

 

[jam070406]

I’m not going to question the intent of the OP. But this whole thread now feels like a big bait and switch with Masons popping in here and there to rally on the side of Masonry and their “brothers”, all the while bashing Popes, Catholic Teaching and sowing confusion amongst Faithful Catholics. I could be way off, but it’s just very strange. :hypno:

 

[workingman]

Not sure who you’re trying to convince, but you’ve certainly convinced yourself. In fact, you’ve done a total 180.
You sound like the theologians in the 60’s that bashed the Pope and said the Church’s stance on contraception is out of date.
Oh well, thank God for His Church who stands for Truth!

Sorry to young to know about the theologians of the 60’s. I do not intend to bash the Pope’s. I still question how valid a 100+ year old encylical is on a ever evolving group. If you want to discuss contraception that is another thread. I personaly agree with the Church. I did not say that I held to the title of this thread. It stemed from a radio show that was on relevant radio. I don’t even know if anyone on this thread blothered to listen to the link I posted and at this point it is moot. I throughouly enjoy arguing two sides of the fence especialy when somthing slowes down. I personal do not think Masonry is evil. I do not think they are out to destroy the Church. I think there are a lot of misconseptions about Masonry because membership is exclusive. Like any other “secret society”.

 

[workingman]

I’m not going to question the intent of the OP. But this whole thread now feels like a big bait and switch with Masons popping in here and there to rally on the side of Masonry and their “brothers”, all the while bashing Popes, Catholic Teaching and sowing confusion amongst Faithful Catholics. I could be way off, but it’s just very strange. :hypno:

I did not know a single Mason on this post till it started. I do find it kind of odd myself how it was slow with one or two. Then a couple more showed up. In my opinion more the marrier. I do think though one needs to be around siners if one intends to reachout with the truth. Look at the clientel that Jesus hung around with. The scum of society. Is that not how the CC views Masons? From some of the writings I would say yes. If one is not amongst the scum how can one bring the truth to them. I think Masons do a great many goods for society though to.

 

[Louie1983]

Sorry to young to know about the theologians of the 60’s. I do not intend to bash the Pope’s. I still question how valid a 100+ year old encylical is on a ever evolving group. If you want to discuss contraception that is another thread. I personaly agree with the Church. I did not say that I held to the title of this thread. It stemed from a radio show that was on relevant radio. I don’t even know if anyone on this thread blothered to listen to the link I posted and at this point it is moot. I throughouly enjoy arguing two sides of the fence especialy when somthing slowes down. I personal do not think Masonry is evil. I do not think they are out to destroy the Church. I think there are a lot of misconseptions about Masonry because membership is exclusive. Like any other “secret society”.

*Workingman, Masonry is wrong because it teaches indifferentism. In toehr words all religions lead to one supreme being. In a msaonic lodge a muslim can put his Koran next to a Bible as a sign that both religions are equal. We know ofcourse that this absolutely incorrect, this is why Popes have condemned masonry as incompatible with the faith as it does not recognise Jesus Christ as the son of God and Lord of all. *

You personally think that masonry is not evil? St Maximilian Kolbe personally witnessed the infamous “black protest” at the Vatican in the 1960’s where 200-300 masons were outside the Pope’s window hold ing satanic signs such as Satan crushing the head of St michael, chanting satanic hymns and predicting that the pope and the church will become slaves of Satan! This inspired St Maximillian Kolbe to start the knights of the immaculata.

 

[jam070406]

Sorry to young to know about the theologians of the 60’s. I do not intend to bash the Pope’s. I still question how valid a 100+ year old encylical is on a ever evolving group. If you want to discuss contraception that is another thread. I personaly agree with the Church. I did not say that I held to the title of this thread. It stemed from a radio show that was on relevant radio. I don’t even know if anyone on this thread blothered to listen to the link I posted and at this point it is moot. I throughouly enjoy arguing two sides of the fence especialy when somthing slowes down. I personal do not think Masonry is evil. I do not think they are out to destroy the Church. I think there are a lot of misconseptions about Masonry because membership is exclusive. Like any other “secret society”.

I wasn’t meaning to talk about contraception, per se, I was making the comparison to show you that there are always those who will dissent against Church Teaching by claiming it’s “outdated” A modernist error.
You’ve expressed your opinion time and again about Masonry but it’s just that, your opinion. It’s in contradiction with the Church.
The Church condemns “secret societies”
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued that statement in the 1980’s reiterating the Church’s stance. Catholicism and Masonry are NOT compatible. No matter how long you want to beat this dead horse.

hmmmm, the opinions of the lodge and misguided Masons or…

           the Truth as professed by the Apostolic See of Peter??

I’ll stick with Rome on this one.

 

[workingman]

I wasn’t meaning to talk about contraception, per se, I was making the comparison to show you that there are always those who will dissent against Church Teaching by claiming it’s “outdated” A modernist error.
You’ve expressed your opinion time and again about Masonry but it’s just that, your opinion. It’s in contradiction with the Church.
The Church condemns “secret societies”
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued that statement in the 1980’s reiterating the Church’s stance. Catholicism and Masonry are NOT compatible. No matter how long you want to beat this dead horse.

hmmmm, the opinions of the lodge and misguided Masons or…

           the Truth as professed by the Apostolic See of Peter??

I’ll stick with Rome on this one.

Ok contraception what ever not important on this thread. I get the compairison. NO the Church did not say Masonry is evil. It just does not condone membership. Exact reasons why beyond some troubles in Italy 117± years ago. So are you saying Mason’s and other related Masonic orders do no good? Are they incapable of good works? If this is the case why have they worked together with the KofC a Catholic endorced organization. Infact it was a organization started by a priest to draw men away from the lodge. Since we are on the topic of “secret societie’s” what is the CC stance on the Moose and Elk’s?

 

[DallasTexas]

If anyone wants to know about freemasonry and why it’s worng, then i strongly recommend this site: scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html

The guy who runs this site was a former mason, a 32nd degree mason. pretty high up. on this page he refutes arguments from masons and he explains clearly why it’s wrong. He has experience to back it up and he knows his stuff in regards to the faith!

Louie1983,

Thank you for your post.

I’ve seen John Salza’s website before. Most masons could easily read through his points and see that he takes much of masonry out of context. I saw his interviews on EWTN (you can find these on youtube.com). He talks of the old worn-out lines of masonry promoting rationalism, indifference, being it’s own religion, etc.

I went out to his website again and was surprised at what I saw. Below is the direct link. It is an article written by a priest saying that it’s okay for Catholics to be masons. I applaud Mr. Salza for showing an opposing view.

scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/FrTomSantaAndLiguorianMagazineSayCatholicsCanBeMasons.pdf

For the most part however, I have not been too impressed with Mr. Salza. I hope his intention are pure.

Below is the address for his main webpage.
scripturecatholic.com/

You can find the article in the New Features section. It’s right above John’s new book, “Boyscouts Infiltrated by Freemasons.”

Thank you again for your post.

 

[Louie1983]

Thanks Dallastexas.

I have seen the article you refer to as i frequent John Salza’s website frequently. Scary stuff but Salza corrects him well!

You mention the old wornout lines that he uses, why are they old and worn out? have you read his books “masonry unmasked” and “why catholics cannot be masons”? They are hardly old and worn out. He goes into great detail into what they practice and what they believe today!i.e they believe in their own resuurection of the body, have their own rituals and even take an oath!.

I don’t think he takes masonry out of context as he was a 32nd level mason and he was given rare honours for someone in his position, i think he really knows what he is talking about.

God bless!

 

[Louie1983]

So are you saying Mason’s and other related Masonic orders do no good? Are they incapable of good works? If this is the case why have they worked together with the KofC a Catholic endorced organization.

They may very well do good works however this is not the issue at hand here. The issue is what they teach and their teachings are incompatible with the Catholic Church. They have their beliefs, their own rituals etc. And most important of all they deny the divinity of Christ, that should be enough to discourage anyone from joining them period! One shouldnt look at their works ONLY but what they teach and what their beliefs are.

 

[DallasTexas]

Louie1983,

Thank you very much for your posting.

Thanks Dallastexas.

I have seen the article you refer to as i frequent John Salza’s website frequently. Scary stuff but Salza corrects him well!

I didn’t see John’s rebuttal the first time but did when I went back. Thank you for the heads up.

You mention the old wornout lines that he uses, why are they old and worn out? have you read his books “masonry unmasked” and “why catholics cannot be masons”? They are hardly old and worn out. He goes into great detail into what they practice and what they believe today!

I should not have said old and worn out line–that sounds derogatory, and I didn’t want to be that way. What I should have said was that much of what John says is what Pope Clement and Pope Leo have said.

I have seen his interview on EWTN and read what is on his website. I cannot bring myself to “buy” a book off the site.

i.e they believe in their own resuurection of the body, have their own rituals and even take an oath!.

Please give me more detail on the masons believing in their own resurrection of the body.

Thank you again for your post.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Ok contraception what ever not important on this thread. I get the compairison. NO the Church did not say Masonry is evil. It just does not condone membership. Exact reasons why beyond some troubles in Italy 117± years ago. So are you saying Mason’s and other related Masonic orders do no good? Are they incapable of good works? If this is the case why have they worked together with the KofC a Catholic endorced organization. Infact it was a organization started by a priest to draw men away from the lodge. Since we are on the topic of “secret societie’s” what is the CC stance on the Moose and Elk’s?

Workingman, are you learning anything as this thread progresses up to the 300th post now? I don’t want to offend but you must have read at least some of the longer posts here. Yeah, you’ve had some nice laughs along the way going back and forth but this is, or was, a serious subject.

We’ve already mentioned before in posts that the Freemasons are not like the Rotarians, Elks, etc. The Freemasons have Temples, Rituals, Holy Arches, Benedictions on Death.
This has been mentioned and as to why the ritual is incompatible with Christianity. Did you not read those parts? Where are you in this thread now? Going on about topless gals or something?

Workingman, I’m sorry but you seem to be going in circles here, which is only prolonging the thread. The pro-masons have made quite the strong case as well as those in disagreement. Again, I repeat, IMHO, the Freemasons are not like the Rotarians because the Rotarians don’t have temples, funeral services. We went through this about 100 posts ago. Are you making an effort to keep up with what is being said because you seem to be going in circles, and I don’t mean to insult you in anyway. But it looks like both sides have stated their cases quite clearly and forcefully. Nobody on this thread is arguing of some weird evil Masonic conspiracy. All that has been argued is about the ritual.

In the interests of not going over material that has already been discussed voluminously many posts back, my personal plea is for you to post only if you add actually something new or at least erudite. I hope not to offend but God Bless! As I see it both sides of the argument have been pretty well put out and you are just causing JAM to repeat himself for your own good.

How far do you want this thread to go, to 1,500 posts?, with plenty of winks in between. I’m pretty sure we’ve covered many, if not all angles. But God Bless.

 

[workingman]

KyivAndrew;5199716]Workingman, are you learning anything as this thread progresses up to the 300th post now? I don’t want to offend but you must have read at least some of the longer posts here. Yeah, you’ve had some nice laughs along the way going back and forth but this is, or was, a serious subject.

I have learned quite a bit along with seen some ignorance. I have read majority of the post thank you. Along with what seems like some of mine go disregarded, but thats ok. Yup it is a serious subject and there are no reasons why a few laughs cant be had though. Life is to short.

We’ve already mentioned before in posts that the Freemasons are not like the Rotarians, Elks, etc. The Freemasons have Temples, Rituals, Holy Arches, Benedictions on Death.This has been mentioned and as to why the ritual is incompatible with Christianity. Did you not read those parts? Where are you in this thread now? Going on about topless gals or something?

Tell me have you ever been to a Moos or Elks meeting? They are very similar to a Masonry meeting. I am talking from experience. If they are not similar then explain why I will use the LCMS for example they don’t condone membership in theme either. What on earth are you blathering about topless gals

Workingman, I’m sorry but you seem to be going in circles here, which is only prolonging the thread. The pro-masons have made quite the strong case as well as those in disagreement. Again, I repeat, IMHO, the Freemasons are not like the Rotarians because the Rotarians don’t have temples, funeral services. We went through this about 100 posts ago. Are you making an effort to keep up with what is being said because you seem to be going in circles, and I don’t mean to insult you in anyway. But it looks like both sides have stated their cases quite clearly and forcefully. Nobody on this thread is arguing of some weird evil Masonic conspiracy. All that has been argued is about the ritual.

Well I am going in circles. You have your oppinion that is great. Realy nobody is arguing of conspiracy? Conspiracy was mentioned in the Papal letters or did you not read those.
I am sorry I was looking at a little more than the ritual I was looking at the group as a whole. I have a very good idea about the rituals from personal experience thank you.

In the interests of not going over material that has already been discussed voluminously many posts back, my personal plea is for you to post only if you add actually something new or at least erudite. I hope not to offend but God Bless! As I see it both sides of the argument have been pretty well put out and you are just causing JAM to repeat himself for your own good.

I am sorry to JAM. Not my intent to cause excessive agervation.

How far do you want this thread to go, to 1,500 posts?, with plenty of winks in between. I’m pretty sure we’ve covered many, if not all angles. But God Bless.
I don’t care how far this thread goes. I did not think it would go this far to be quite honest.

KyivAndrew, I thought there was a great effort to remain civil in this thread. As the OP I thought it was clear that it was the whole group not one ritual I was talking about. If I wanted a one ritual discussion I could of gone to a Masonic brother. Or read the ritual manual. Now I am going to make my well stated opinion. The CC is wrong on Masonry. The CC cannot base a modern opinion on 117 year old writings. Yes I know there is one from 1983, but the way it reads it was not a new investigation or dialog just reiteration of old opinion. I will have to diagree with the CC on there stance with this group. Is my opinion clear enough on that one?

 

[Holly3278]

Does any one here listen to Relevant Radio. I do and on April 15, 2009 they had a great guest on the Drew Mariani Show. His name I believe is Dr. Mark Miravalle. They mentioned severeal of the dark deeds. This conserns me because I have family in freemasonry. This is a devilish cult. They have one degree where they stomp or break the papal tiara. I will atach a link to it. It is in the first hour of the show and around 20min into it. I have also read that they are trying to infeltrate the Church. I will see if I can find the source for that at some point.

Here is the link for the show.

relevantradio.com/Page.aspx?pid=1230&cid=18&ceid=2864&cerid=0&cdt=4%2f15%2f2009

I was just looking to pass info and get others feed back and or expieriences.

It concerns me too. My grandpa on my mom’s side of the family is a Freemason. However, he has advanced Parkinson’s disease and no longer attends the meetings. In fact, I don’t think he’s attended in several years.

 

[joe_clark]

I’m not going to question the intent of the OP. But this whole thread now feels like a big bait and switch with Masons popping in here and there to rally on the side of Masonry and their “brothers”, all the while bashing Popes, Catholic Teaching and sowing confusion amongst Faithful Catholics. I could be way off, but it’s just very strange. :hypno:

I am not a “brother”. Who is bashing who? The title of this thread implies a truth. There is no question mark at the end. I am not a brother, but how the church handles this organization it truly does not understand, can’t control it, therefore it is evil, is suspect.
The reality that we see with our eyes in our world, is deafening. People on the ground that live down here know who to be weary of and who appear to be a positive part of the community.

It might be that some of the posters here, might be like where I am at. I have family member who are masons and I do not fear them or my soul. They are also Catholic, attend church, teach their children the way of the Lord. They have been basketball coaches for the CYO. Their wives have not joined the organization due to being up to their neck in everyday life and their children. They do not wear their organization on their sleeves. It is for them to make better of themselves and be a positive force in the community we live in. They do good work for mankind and I have seen no evidence to support anything to include Evil.

A child died in Bensalem, Pa., falling off of a bike and did not have a helmet. It was later dicovered that the family of the child was poor and did not have the money for a helmet. My uncles lodge created a bike rodeo with the local police and donated $1000.00 for new helmets to be given out for free in the childs name. What evil is this? I have asked them many questions, but they have not approached me on the subject to join up. There is some kind of policy where they must not recruit, but if asked to join they will accomadate you.

I just believe that previously, the FreeMasons were ok and because someone sat down and called them evil one day, we are supposed to fall in. It is 2009 and today people are better educated and can seek the truth out for themselves.

 

[jam070406]

I am not a “brother”. Who is bashing who? The title of this thread implies a truth. There is no question mark at the end. I am not a brother, but how the church handles this organization it truly does not understand, can’t control it, therefore it is evil, is suspect.
The reality that we see with our eyes in our world, is deafening. People on the ground that live down here know who to be weary of and who appear to be a positive part of the community.

It might be that some of the posters here, might be like where I am at. I have family member who are masons and I do not fear them or my soul. They are also Catholic, attend church, teach their children the way of the Lord. They have been basketball coaches for the CYO. Their wives have not joined the organization due to being up to their neck in everyday life and their children. They do not wear their organization on their sleeves. It is for them to make better of themselves and be a positive force in the community we live in. They do good work for mankind and I have seen no evidence to support anything to include Evil.

A child died in Bensalem, Pa., falling off of a bike and did not have a helmet. It was later dicovered that the family of the child was poor and did not have the money for a helmet. My uncles lodge created a bike rodeo with the local police and donated $1000.00 for new helmets to be given out for free in the childs name. What evil is this? I have asked them many questions, but they have not approached me on the subject to join up. There is some kind of policy where they must not recruit, but if asked to join they will accomadate you.

I just believe that previously, the FreeMasons were ok and because someone sat down and called them evil one day, we are supposed to fall in. It is 2009 and today people are better educated and can seek the truth out for themselves.

Joe,

Not sure why you are getting upset or taking it personal. I have said I don’t believe it’s the individual Masons but the false religion itself. Can we PLEEEEEEASE get past that point?

Refer to Louie’s post #289. It’s basically what I’ve been saying all along.

p.s. did you not read any of the sources provided and why Freemasonry is not compatible with Catholicism? Obviously, you did not.

I’m done.
Good day.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Howdy, Workingman, yes your opinion is clear on that and how the Catholic Church is wrong on this. I just felt we started going around in circles that’s all, but you’re the OP. Discuss all you wish.

On the 1980s Papal Condemnation, it was not just a regurgitation of the outdated points made in the 19th century Papal Document. Actually, quite a bit of debate went into it because the Vatican (under JP2) felt His Holiness Pope Paul before him (in the 60s and 70s) had not been strong enough in dealing with Freemasonry. You just don’t see listed all that went into the Church’s position. (Martin Short and Stephen Knight discuss this in their books). The Papal Condemnation came out around the same time as the Anglican and Methodist Churches were also conducting study groups which came out condemning Freemasonry.

On Masonic philanthropy, as I personally stated before, who can argue with philanthropy but we did not end up focusing on that.

I feel I can’t add anymore to what’s already been said, so God Bless All Workingman and all the posters, sacred, profane, on the square and off. Over and out.

 

[joe_clark]

Joe,

Not sure why you are getting upset or taking it personal. I have said I don’t believe it’s the individual Masons but the false religion itself. Can we PLEEEEEEASE get past that point?

Refer to Louie’s post #289. It’s basically what I’ve been saying all along.

p.s. did you not read any of the sources provided and why Freemasonry is not compatible with Catholicism? Obviously, you did not.

I’m done.
Good day.

I am not taking this personal, only pointing out that the church can make you a friend and then an enemy and I don’t feel this is on a level playing field. The rules are changed arbitrarily, with no real foundation, and the lines in the sand continue to move. It is like play a game with your opponent changing the rules on you when they feel threatened. This is not just about the masons because, tomorrow you too can be the perceived enemy. That is the point that I am speaking to. Once again educated Catholics and are trying to negotiate this road and we live in 2009.

 

[Brother2]

Plenty of talk about Freemasons. Once again this is a personal observation and one that may or may not shock, probably you have heard it before, and I am only repeating what I have heard and what my research has thrown up…hope it is not a lynching crime…I think it could be actually…so sorry to those I offend…but I am only joining in the discussion and mean no harm to anyone…

I shall say a Word, a Name of a Catholic Organization…Jesuits…one called by Rev. Ian Paisley in Northern Ireland, the Roman Gestapo…sorry…or the Roman secret service…??

Infiltrating many organizations, Protestant ~Churches etc, ha, some Adventists say they have infiltrated our Church…

…I have heard it said that…help!..the Jesuits started the Freemasons (also the Knights Templar of course who were Catholic I believe)…there I have said it…I hear the possy coming up the road…when the Pope was taken prisoner in 1798 by General Berthier, Napolean’s mate…the Roman influence was at an end for a while…so set up another organization who can carry on Roman influence in the world…and even better one that we will condemn! as anti Catholic and evil…and then when the Pope takes power again we will two powerful organizations to spread Roman power and influence…

It is an interesting idea at least from the Protestant end…?? Good for Rome to when I think about it…crumbs what hope have anyone else…???

Only written for discussion purposes and joining general craic, as the Irish say…Michael.

Hi again guys and gals. Ha. I put the above out again because I am not usually ignored, I usually put the ‘Cat amongst the Pigeons’…maybe that is the message in itself, I should know to keep my head down re: above…
One Guy gave me the evil eye huh…

But hey it is completely Original in this discussion, not one else has mentioned it…>.

So I bring it up again just to see what you think…A Jesuit under every bed…???
Roman Catholic Secret Service…come on People I want to hear the *************comments ha…

On my own head be it…Michael.

 

[workingman]

Howdy, Workingman, yes your opinion is clear on that and how the Catholic Church is wrong on this. I just felt we started going around in circles that’s all, but you’re the OP. Discuss all you wish.

On the 1980s Papal Condemnation, it was not just a regurgitation of the outdated points made in the 19th century Papal Document. Actually, quite a bit of debate went into it because the Vatican (under JP2) felt His Holiness Pope Paul before him (in the 60s and 70s) had not been strong enough in dealing with Freemasonry. You just don’t see listed all that went into the Church’s position. (Martin Short and Stephen Knight discuss this in their books). The Papal Condemnation came out around the same time as the Anglican and Methodist Churches were also conducting study groups which came out condemning Freemasonry.

On Masonic philanthropy, as I personally stated before, who can argue with philanthropy but we did not end up focusing on that.

I feel I can’t add anymore to what’s already been said, so God Bless All Workingman and all the posters, sacred, profane, on the square and off. Over and out.

It has nothing with me being the OP. You are right we probably did start in circles a little. I was hoping to see more detail from the 1980’s letter and it not being there highly dissapointed me. I looked up a list of supposed Catholic Priest who were Masons and most were from that time frame. you mentioned. A sad case I guess due to the Churches teaching. I know that I normaly try hard to follow all the Churches teachings because they are the Church and are resposible for leading us to salvation. I just seem to strugle with this teaching. I hope you do not leave the thread but do as you must. I do respect your oppinion and all the other posters. God bless you.