Freemasonry A Evil Group

[workingman]

I had a very slow day at work today. This gave me alot of time to contemplate things in this thread and pray on them. I came out of the gate from the start very anti Masonic. Then about half way through the thread I switch my angles. I got a lot of time today to pray and read on the stuff in this thread.

1. Masonry as far as individuals and philanthropy are considered are not evil. The works they do for society are not evil they in fact are quite good.
2. The blue loge can come out as very Christian in nature especialy when there is a Holy Bible on the altar. This can make it seem like it belongs with Christianity. The oaths when taken and reflected apon the penalties can seem scary though they say they are symbolic.
   3)The higher up once one is in the inner circle above a 32 degree from what I have read I do find troubling. I was never very active beyond the blue loge though I had been to the 4-32 degree temples here and there.

I do not subscribe to any theory that the Jesuit’s had any thing to do with Masonry. I would like to see the source though that emplies that as has been suggested in this thread now I see twice. -]/-]

Now back to what I was saying about prayer and contemplation on this thread today. I felt I got struck with a rock in the head and heart. I do feel horible for defying Church teachings. It is not the thing a faithful Catholic should do. I have confessed this sin privatly and now am doing it publicly. I do this because of the guilt on my soul. Not that I have done anything wrong within the loge or society, but because of my defience to the Church. To those on this thread I have agravated jam070406,KyivAndrew, DallasTexas and others forgive me if I missed all names. I humbly ask for forgivness. I feel I need to conform to Church teachings on this one. They do have my souls wellbeing and salvation in mind. Once again I apologise to all who I have upset and agravated in this thread. I hope some dialog does continue here. I think there may be some things to still put to bed so to speak.
I prayerfuly and willfuly submit to the Church and its teachings on this topic. God bless all.

p.s. prayer is a powerful thing that can strike one with answers they do not want or expect when done.

 

[jam070406]

Louie1983,

Thank you for your post.

I’ve seen John Salza’s website before. Most masons could easily read through his points and see that he takes much of masonry out of context. I saw his interviews on EWTN (you can find these on youtube.com). He talks of the old worn-out lines of masonry promoting rationalism, indifference, being it’s own religion, etc.

I went out to his website again and was surprised at what I saw. Below is the direct link. It is an article written by a priest saying that it’s okay for Catholics to be masons. I applaud Mr. Salza for showing an opposing view.

scripturecatholic.com/feature-articles/FrTomSantaAndLiguorianMagazineSayCatholicsCanBeMasons.pdf

For the most part however, I have not been too impressed with Mr. Salza. I hope his intention are pure.

Below is the address for his main webpage.
scripturecatholic.com/

You can find the article in the New Features section. It’s right above John’s new book, “Boyscouts Infiltrated by Freemasons.”

Thank you again for your post.

Dallas,
Could you please provide a copy, in this thread, of the oath you swore when initiated as a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason?
Shouldn’t be a problem, at all for you, considering it’s not at all religious, blasphemous or in contradiction to the Teachings of the Catholic Church right?
You want the Church to bend for you so I believe it is only fair to divulge those things that Faithful Catholics and the Church may see as suspect.
Also, could you clarify something? You became a 32 degree Mason in your first year after joining the Lodge correct? I don’t know how it works so could you explain how you skipped so many degrees and jumped to 32 degree in a year? Thanks.

Looking forward to hearing from you and you posting that oath!
I know as a Faithful Catholic you wouldn’t lie about it or falsify anything.
Thanks again!
God bless!

 

[human_being]

Sorry to young to know about the theologians of the 60’s. I do not intend to bash the Pope’s. I still question how valid a 100+ year old encylical is on a ever evolving group. If you want to discuss contraception that is another thread. I personaly agree with the Church. I did not say that I held to the title of this thread. It stemed from a radio show that was on relevant radio. I don’t even know if anyone on this thread blothered to listen to the link I posted and at this point it is moot. I throughouly enjoy arguing two sides of the fence especialy when somthing slowes down. I personal do not think Masonry is evil. I do not think they are out to destroy the Church. I think there are a lot of misconseptions about Masonry because membership is exclusive. Like any other “secret society”.

The Masons did try to close the catholic schools in one of the states(for some reason I think it was Oregon but could be wrong.There were court cases so it is public record but I need to find it. in the 1800’s. They wanted only public schools. I will look for the facts on that but I know that they did not want Catholic schools.

 

[human_being]

Now for the most recent. I find that they did not reevaluate Masonry at all. The Church simply restated 100+ year old writings. They did not research Masonry or give it another look. They kept to there negative opinions. This is my opinion.

Now for CUSTODI DI QUELLA FEDE
I can neither conferm nor condem the opening paragraphs. I will try to make this points by paragraph instead of a blanket statment. The first fault is this is 117 years old aproximatly.
P2-3; This is suposed to be with problems contained in Italy. They do not state that this is a problem world wide.
P4;So Masonry has invaded the Chruch ? Masonry has no desire to take over the Church or its other institutions. Masonry has squandered the Churches treasury? I would love to see profe of this.
P5;Masons welcome all religions. The only thing Masonry will not accept is athiesm. Masonry directs there members to seek out God thruogh the Church. When did they ever promote a revolt against a proper Church athority.
P6;This paragraph sounds like complete paranoya to me.
P7-8; Not even true; Masonry works for the greater social good
P9-10;Masonry is not a enemy of county, God or Church. Our country had many founding fathers that were masons. There a principles of Masonry in our founding. Masonry embraces God and directs its members to seek God. The Church made a enemy of Masonry not the other way around. From my experience Masonry has never said one bad thing about the Church.
Skiping to 13-16; I find nothing to comment on in 13 but 14 sounds like the Church wants to regulate philanthropic societies I find that in and of it self. In 15 what a great message for a Christian to put forth. If one is even suspected of having Masonry ties one should break off all contact and not associate with them. One needs to learn to deliver the message to those who the Church deams that need to hear it. How is one suposed to do that if they close them out.
P17-22; Realy? Masonry is controling the schools. Masonry wants to enslave the Church. More obserd paranoya. I do not see any facts of this.

This writing is completely out of date and the Church needs to take a good long hard look at reevaluating Masonry. What is be accused of is not what happens in fremasonry.

The declatation of 1983 REAFFIRMS the same stance on the encyclical that you just declared to be too old. It’s only 25 years ago or so. And I’m sure if they wrote a new one today it would be very,very similar to the old one.

 

[workingman]

The Masons did try to close the catholic schools in one of the states(for some reason I think it was Oregon but could be wrong.There were court cases so it is public record but I need to find it. in the 1800’s. They wanted only public schools. I will look for the facts on that but I know that they did not want Catholic schools.

Thank you I do apprieciate you efforts.

 

[workingman]

The declatation of 1983 REAFFIRMS the same stance on the encyclical that you just declared to be too old. It’s only 25 years ago or so. And I’m sure if they wrote a new one today it would be very,very similar to the old one.

You are most likely correct. Thanks again.

 

[human_being]

Ok contraception what ever not important on this thread. I get the compairison. NO the Church did not say Masonry is evil. It just does not condone membership. Exact reasons why beyond some troubles in Italy 117± years ago. So are you saying Mason’s and other related Masonic orders do no good? Are they incapable of good works? If this is the case why have they worked together with the KofC a Catholic endorced organization. Infact it was a organization started by a priest to draw men away from the lodge. Since we are on the topic of “secret societie’s” what is the CC stance on the Moose and Elk’s?

I don’t believe the church takes a stance on alot of other fraternal organizations,but those organizations don’t involve oaths such as the Masonic ones. And in the book I read the masons even attempted to be classified legally as a religion in court. I will also search for that but I just read it last night in the book written by Whalen.
As to your comment on Italy: As I watched a movie about Pope JPII on EWTN about 2 months ago, there was a scene. Pope JPII wanted to travel to Mexico but his advisors warned against it. Why? There was a pause. And then he turned to his "advisors" and questioned "freemasons" ? The answer was affirmative. This told me that even in the 1980's or 1990's they are still a worldwide anti-catholic group and possibly even dangerous to the Pope's life.

 

[Brother2]

One source for …Jesuits and the Masonic is from an ex Roman Catholic and has his own website in South Africa, agreed he can be sensationalist but is very interesting indeed… so here we go…www.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya. Mixed in with New Age stuff and Spiritualism etc.

A very interesting Website ladies and gentlemen. Even slightly weird, strange but true, fact is stranger than fiction, the truth will make you free…Michael.

 

[workingman]

I don’t believe the church takes a stance on alot of other fraternal organizations,but those organizations don’t involve oaths such as the Masonic ones. And in the book I read the masons even attempted to be classified legally as a religion in court. I will also search for that but I just read it last night in the book written by Whalen.

As to your comment on Italy:  As I watched a movie about Pope JPII on EWTN about 2 months ago,               there was a scene. Pope JPII wanted to travel to Mexico but his advisors warned against it. Why?    There was a pause. And then he turned to his "advisors" and questioned "freemasons" ?   The answer was affirmative.  This told me that even in the 1980's or 1990's they are still a worldwide anti-catholic group and possibly even dangerous to the Pope's life.

I will concede the first part. I find it interesting on the movie about Pope JPll. Do you have a title or anything I want to look for it and or possibly buy it. That does trouble me with the Masonic group. A action I definatly could not promote.

 

[workingman]

One source for …Jesuits and the Masonic is from an ex Roman Catholic and has his own website in South Africa, agreed he can be sensationalist but is very interesting indeed… so here we go…www.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya. Mixed in with New Age stuff and Spiritualism etc.

A very interesting Website ladies and gentlemen. Even slightly weird, strange but true, fact is stranger than fiction, the truth will make you free…Michael.

I would like to repost the link. I had to go searching for it. here it is again. Now I will read it.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya.html?searched=freemasonry&advsearch=oneword&highlight=ajaxSearch_highlight+ajaxSearch_highlight1

 

[human_being]

I will concede the first part. I find it interesting on the movie about Pope JPll. Do you have a title or anything I want to look for it and or possibly buy it. That does trouble me with the Masonic group. A action I definatly could not promote.

The movie was a biography with proffesional actors. Just like a movie in the theatres. You could probably find it on the EWTN catalogue. The part about the mason’s only lasted 3-4 seconds but it was there. I think it was to be his first trip to mexico during that scene. I’m not angry with you. I’ve been interested in this topic and could care less how long it lasts. But I am concerned that catholics may think that they can be masons and still take Holy Communion. I know that this is wrong. There are good muslims,Jews, protestants, and atheists in the world. And there are good freemasons butyou cannot be a freemason and be in good standing in the catholic church. Neither can you be any of the others mentioned…and be a catholic. I like the topic. It’s been alot lighter diversion for me to get away from another thread I’ve been on which tends for me to get overinvolved and angry. So I’ve been spending more time here. I have a personal feeling that these masons have alot to do with alot of wrongs in the world but it’s just my opinion and eveybody’s got one.ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/POPE+JOHN+PAUL+II+FEATURE+FILM+DVD/keywords=pope+john+paul+II/page_no=2/edp_no=13526/shop.axd/ProductDetails There is the movie link.

 

[Louie1983]

Louie1983,

Thank you very much for your posting.

I didn’t see John’s rebuttal the first time but did when I went back. Thank you for the heads up.

I should not have said old and worn out line–that sounds derogatory, and I didn’t want to be that way. What I should have said was that much of what John says is what Pope Clement and Pope Leo have said.

I have seen his interview on EWTN and read what is on his website. I cannot bring myself to “buy” a book off the site.

Please give me more detail on the masons believing in their own resurrection of the body.

Thank you again for your post.

please see this dialogue (same website) where salza CLEARLY demonstrates this. Hope this helps. In the end the mason he talks admits that this is wrong.

scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html#tradition-16

You don’t want to buy the book of the site? why not? if you want you can email him directly if that is easier for you.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Dear Workingman: you did not aggravate me brother. I just got confused because you started posting some kind of picturesque Star Trek type avatar with obelisks, looked like pharoahs, pyramids, and I thought I saw WonderWoman somewhere in there too. (just joking, I don’t need no apology).

On the 1980s Papal Declaration and why it was not a simple regurgitation of the 19th century Papal Bulls, I can add the following:

1. In 1980 the German Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Bishops, after 6! years of intense study of the entire Freemasonic Ritual (and recall German Freemasonry, unlike the Grand Orient, is virtually now identical to English Grand Lodge), came out with an official report: ** “It is impossible to belong to the Catholic Church and to Freemasonry at the same time. For all the Craft’s humanitarian and charitable aspects, and its stand against materialistic ideology , it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth. Being a Mason is to question the fundamental principles of Christian life.” **

The Bishops then went on to criticize Freemasonry for its many “isms”: ** indifferentism, relativism, subjectivism, deism**. To the Mason “all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This undermines the faith of a Catholic whose Church lays claim to the truth.”

With respect to this, on matters of the occult and religion, I think the German hierarchy is probably more qualified to speak on this matter than most of us from the theological plane. We’re Catholics, and either we accept it or we do not with full understanding of the consequences. One might be lucky enough to find a parish priest who unknowingly looks the other way or smiles but Rome is Rome.

1. The P2 Masonic Lodge scandal in Italy was much more than just the workings of a rogue Masonic Lodge. The Vatican soon realized that a great many members in that lodge were actually fully recognized by Grand Lodge in England as legitimate Freemasons so that the excuse of Continental vs. English Masonry could not hold. In any event, German Freemasonry is akin to the English, and it had already been condemned after 6 years of these bishops going through the entire ritual, benedictions, passwords, prayers with a fine tooth comb.

That was why His Holiness Pope John Paul II commissioned then Cardinal Ratzinger to state anew the Catholic position that being a Freemason puts a Catholic in grave sin. This was a brand new modern study of Freemasonry, and not something out of the 19th Century.

All I can say to any Catholic Masons on the post, is that if you have a problem with this, we cannot solve it on this thread and you’ll have to take it up with the Pope when he returns from the Holy Land. When Catholics start swearing oaths to a mongrel, syncretistic, secret god JAHBULON in the Royal Arch; well, this isn’t just play acting or having secret code fun, it really is blasphemy for grown men who should know better. God did not just make up a funny Commandment about not using His Name in vain. It means something and when you start benedictions, hymns, prayers, without the name of Jesus Christ in a Temple no less, then you have got to ask yourself if you feel this has the Savior’s blessing or not; or the Savior then means nothing and what purpose the 2,000 year old Catholic Church?

We either call upon Jesus Christ in prayer for His Divine Mercy, or if some others wish, use a secret name for God that has been vouchsafed to you and which you may fool yourself into accepting, but the two are mutually exclusive. Christ said as much. Your problem is not with us guys in the thread, it’s with the occult then.

God Bless.

 

[workingman]

KyivAndrew;5203321]Dear Workingman: you did not aggravate me brother. I just got confused because you started posting some kind of picturesque Star Trek type avatar with obelisks, looked like pharoahs, pyramids, and I thought I saw WonderWoman somewhere in there too. (just joking, I don’t need no apology).

I am glad I did not aggravate you. God bless.HEHEHEHEHEHE. I like the new one now.

On the 1980s Papal Declaration and why it was not a simple regurgitation of the 19th century Papal Bulls, I can add the following:

1. In 1980 the German Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Bishops, after 6! years of intense study of the entire Freemasonic Ritual (and recall German Freemasonry, unlike the Grand Orient, is virtually now identical to English Grand Lodge), came out with an official report: ** “It is impossible to belong to the Catholic Church and to Freemasonry at the same time. For all the Craft’s humanitarian and charitable aspects, and its stand against materialistic ideology , it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth. Being a Mason is to question the fundamental principles of Christian life.” **

The Bishops then went on to criticize Freemasonry for its many “isms”: ** indifferentism, relativism, subjectivism, deism**. To the Mason “all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This undermines the faith of a Catholic whose Church lays claim to the truth.”

With respect to this, on matters of the occult and religion, I think the German hierarchy is probably more qualified to speak on this matter than most of us from the theological plane. We’re Catholics, and either we accept it or we do not with full understanding of the consequences. One might be lucky enough to find a parish priest who unknowingly looks the other way or smiles but Rome is Rome.

Thank you. Do you know of a source where one can read the details on what is listed?

1. The P2 Masonic Lodge scandal in Italy was much more than just the workings of a rogue Masonic Lodge. The Vatican soon realized that a great many members in that lodge were actually fully recognized by Grand Lodge in England as legitimate Freemasons so that the excuse of Continental vs. English Masonry could not hold. In any event, German Freemasonry is akin to the English, and it had already been condemned after 6 years of these bishops going through the entire ritual, benedictions, passwords, prayers with a fine tooth comb.

That was why His Holiness Pope John Paul II commissioned then Cardinal Ratzinger to state anew the Catholic position that being a Freemason puts a Catholic in grave sin. This was a brand new modern study of Freemasonry, and not something out of the 19th Century.

All I can say to any Catholic Masons on the post, is that if you have a problem with this, we cannot solve it on this thread and you’ll have to take it up with the Pope when he returns from the Holy Land. When Catholics start swearing oaths to a mongrel, syncretistic, secret god JAHBULON in the Royal Arch; well, this isn’t just play acting or having secret code fun, it really is blasphemy for grown men who should know better. God did not just make up a funny Commandment about not using His Name in vain. It means something and when you start benedictions, hymns, prayers, without the name of Jesus Christ in a Temple no less, then you have got to ask yourself if you feel this has the Savior’s blessing or not; or the Savior then means nothing and what purpose the 2,000 year old Catholic Church?

We either call upon Jesus Christ in prayer for His Divine Mercy, or if some others wish, use a secret name for God that has been vouchsafed to you and which you may fool yourself into accepting, but the two are mutually exclusive. Christ said as much. Your problem is not with us guys in the thread, it’s with the occult then.

God Bless.

Once again thank you. May the Church prevail. NO the problem like you said in not with us on the thread it is with the occult, but maby if possible and God willing we can help them see the errors through the use of this thread.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Hey Workingman, about to drift off so don’t know if the German study is available online but will look. And just to show some more proof on top of the two issues I mentioned in going into Vatican’s 1981 Condemnation, besides the excerpts from the German Hierarchy’s Study, which was point 1. I didn’t clarify what point 2: P2 was, so I’ll choose the least unbiased summation of what it was from Wikipedia (so I’m not looking to Catholic or Masonic sites).

P2 was an Italian Masonic Lodge that was recognized by the Grand Orient of Italy (Masonic Head Body) and this Grand Orient was in turn recognized as legitimate by Grand Lodge in England and hence acceptable to the world’s masons during its existence. Masonic propagandists will try to downplay the threat or how illegitimate P2 was but all they can grasp for are technicalities on dates.
Grand Lodge in Britain knew these guys and was affiliated with and recognized the Italian Orient Lodge as legitimate. More insidiously, P2 slowly starting worming its way into the dealings of the Vatican. Pope JP2 was perfectly aware of this when he and Ratzinger made the 1981 Declaration.

The corruption, and virtual creation of a Masonic Shadow State in a G7 state like Italy through the Masonic P2 Lodge in the 1980s rightfully sent shock waves through the Vatican and only further confirmed what the German Bishops Study Group had declared on the deleterious effects of Freemasonry. Hence, that strong, simple, no exceptions Condemnation by His Holiness and Cardinal Ratzinger, using both theological arguments against the Craft’s Rituals and empirical arguments as to what happens when secret societies like the Freemasons start running amok in a country.
Here’s the Wikipedia link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
In all honesty, apart from the ritual debate, if one reads the literature of real life people whose lives have been destroyed because of what is discussed on the personal level in the Temple and Lodge to their detriment without their knowing, there is much bad with any secret societies. In fact they are illegal under most nations’ Secret Associations legislation yet somehow the Freemasons get bypassed on this law.
There was the case of the British detective (Brian Woolard), a non-Mason, who had his entire 20 year sterling police career destroyed because he refused to drop a high-corruption case because the evidence involved a tape recording of a senior Mason threatening he had so and so many Masonic Brothers high up in the judiciary and bar, and that he would destroy the one accused. The senior mason never realized he was being taped by the same accused. Woolard’s Masonic Police Chief wanted Woolard to drop the case against the accussed because of what embarassment it would cost the Lodge. And this happens more than some people think; hence why most Western Countries developed secret society legislation making them illegal but which Freemasonry, in ingratiating itself to the Royal Family in England, or other important people in other countries avoided. Yet, even Prince Philip will have nothing to do with Freemasonry, especially after the Anglican Church’s study of the errors of Masonry in the 1980s.

The nature of any secret society can become detrimental, especially when combined with all those bonding rituals brother to brother to never to divulge Masonry’s secrets or the Omnific Word for God. Woolard lost his job in trying to clean up Masonic corruption because his Masonic Police Chief just assumed Woollard was on the Masonic square and wouldn’t dare investigate. But Woolard was not a mason but a full-fledged detective seeking to destroy corruption in the English legal system and he took this work very seriously. He failed because too many higher ups were on the Masonic square and nothing was ever done and his life, literally, was destroyed. The hundreds of Masons that Martin Short interviewed for his book Inside the Brotherhood asserted that this happened within many,many lodges and was not the exception. One 32nd degree Mason, on being asked how many personal men’s lives had he seen be destroyed said with a knowing nod to Short: “many…many” and turned his face away. The 32nd degree figured he couldn’t reconcile his Christianity with what he saw in Freemasonry’s actions and rituals.

And Martin Short literally interviewed hundreds of Masons for his book who would acknowledge that Masonry had been used detrimentally. The 32nd degree explained that if a person joining a Lodge is a reprobate, then yes Masonic bonding may turn these guys into honest men at the beginning. The problem starts later on when more and more of the Ritual comes up and good guys go bad.
There is also the story of the parish priest in England and his wife whose lives were destroyed in their encounter with Masonry. The Bishop, a non-Mason and religious like the parish priest had their work cut out for them. The local masons asked for a prayer service in the priest’s Anglican church, and he, following his Bishop’s clear instructions, asserted that they should add “In the name of Jesus” to each of their prayers. After all, they were in a Christian Church. Well, this was too much for local Masons to handle (I mean Jesus, how dare a priest insist on us mentioning Him) who began upsetting parish life in the church and for the priest simply because he asked them to put in the name of Jesus before their prayers. The priest’s family was devastated as each Church Parish Council meeting just ended up in Masons throwing dirt at their own parish priest for his not allowing as what he perceived was a Masonic, pagan, non-Christian Benediction in his Christian Church.
It’s a sad story. God Bless!

 

[joe_clark]

**KyivAndrew
New Member Join Date: April 24, 2009
Posts: 121
Religion: Catholic

Re: Freemasonry A Evil Group

---

Dear Workingman: you did not aggravate me brother. I just got confused because you started posting some kind of picturesque Star Trek type avatar with obelisks, looked like pharoahs, pyramids, and I thought I saw WonderWoman somewhere in there too. (just joking, I don’t need no apology).

On the 1980s Papal Declaration and why it was not a simple regurgitation of the 19th century Papal Bulls, I can add the following:

1. In 1980 the German Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Bishops, after 6! years of intense study of the entire Freemasonic Ritual (and recall German Freemasonry, unlike the Grand Orient, is virtually now identical to English Grand Lodge), came out with an official report: “It is impossible to belong to the Catholic Church and to Freemasonry at the same time. For all the Craft’s humanitarian and charitable aspects, and its stand against materialistic ideology , it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth. Being a Mason is to question the fundamental principles of Christian life.”

The Bishops then went on to criticize Freemasonry for its many “isms”: indifferentism, relativism, subjectivism, deism. To the Mason “all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This undermines the faith of a Catholic whose Church lays claim to the truth.” **

So what’s the point? The Masons won’t endorse any God there for it undermines religion? This is all I see. No dancing demons or green vomit spewing devils.

“it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth.” How? The Masons never talk down to or against any religion or order, they encourage the participation and do not ask what God you pray to or the religion you belong to.

To the Mason "all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This is their opinion which has no basis in fact. If anything it’s position is weak at best. Education and good information is key.

 

[KyivAndrew]

**KyivAndrew
New Member Join Date: April 24, 2009
Posts: 121
Religion: Catholic

Re: Freemasonry A Evil Group

---

Dear Workingman: you did not aggravate me brother. I just got confused because you started posting some kind of picturesque Star Trek type avatar with obelisks, looked like pharoahs, pyramids, and I thought I saw WonderWoman somewhere in there too. (just joking, I don’t need no apology).

On the 1980s Papal Declaration and why it was not a simple regurgitation of the 19th century Papal Bulls, I can add the following:

1. In 1980 the German Roman Catholic Hierarchy of Bishops, after 6! years of intense study of the entire Freemasonic Ritual (and recall German Freemasonry, unlike the Grand Orient, is virtually now identical to English Grand Lodge), came out with an official report: “It is impossible to belong to the Catholic Church and to Freemasonry at the same time. For all the Craft’s humanitarian and charitable aspects, and its stand against materialistic ideology , it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth. Being a Mason is to question the fundamental principles of Christian life.”

The Bishops then went on to criticize Freemasonry for its many “isms”: indifferentism, relativism, subjectivism, deism. To the Mason “all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This undermines the faith of a Catholic whose Church lays claim to the truth.” **

So what’s the point? The Masons won’t endorse any God there for it undermines religion? This is all I see. No dancing demons or green vomit spewing devils.

“it still denies the objective validity of revealed truth.” How? The Masons never talk down to or against any religion or order, they encourage the participation and do not ask what God you pray to or the religion you belong to.

To the Mason "all religions are competitive attempts to express the ultimate unattainable truth about God. This is their opinion which has no basis in fact. If anything it’s position is weak at best. Education and good information is key.

But the point is the Masons do endorse a God, a Masonic God, whose omnific name is only disclosed in secret when one is exalted into the Royal Arch - Jahbulon - and at the risk of not repeating myself over again we covered this some 100 posts back and I don’t have the energy to keep on repeating myself over and over again with what is involved in the Royal Arch ritual. Or how the personal bloody oaths done with an open Holy Bible are also blasphemy, which we also covered many posts ago.

Joe you joined this thread midway through so I hope you have read all the previous posts. I could post point by point all the negative results of the Church of England and the Methodist Church’s recent investigations on Freemasonry here too, but I’m really getting tired of a Catholic Forum being used by some to encourage what we are told is grave sin because a poster is more educated than the entire hierarchy.

Yes, I have family in Freemasonry too, and your comment about “dancing demons and spewing devils” is a reductio ad absurdum and you should know better than to put words in my or others’ mouths. I’ve just seen grown men, 32degree masons, freeze up when you ask them to pronounce their secret name for God JAHBULON. And yes, you are right, the Masons don’t endorse at the beginning any particular God, so you can choose Jesus or Satan logically and it wouldn’t matter as long as it’s a god. The Satanist A. Crowley had no problem rising through the Scottish rite’s ranks of Freemasonry and he was never kicked out out of regular lodge. Indeed, he went on to help found the Golden Dawn Temple.

Freemasonry has all the trappings of a religion: a Temple, Altars, Prayers, Hymns, and lo and behold when you die you can have a Masonic Funeral complete with Benediction and all, and even have a square and compass engraved on your and your wife’s tombstone if you’re a Mason because what Christian needs a cross when you can go into eternity with the square and compass over you. And not just a Mason but a Mason’s wife can have that engraved on her tombstone even if she’s Catholic and even though she never was allowed in the Brotherhood.

I do not think I can add anymore and I’ve had enough of wasting my time on debating the same points about Freemasonry. I joined this forum to learn about Catholicism and religion and Jesus Christ, not Joe Clark or Masonry. I feel you are convinced you are in the right, the Pope and the bishops are wrong, so o.k., we’ve established that hopefully to your satisfaction.

You close by saying education and good information are key. Sound words, so do yourself a favor and read Inside the Brotherhood by Martin Short which was a bestseller in England and here I believe and it’s written by a non-Catholic. Education: how many books or articles have you read on Freemasonry Joe, and please list them here if you wish? Be delighted to see what you base your claims on.

But I’m even more delighted in making this my last post on this thread. That’s it. It just gets aggravating after a while having to defend the Vatican’s teaching of grave sin on a Catholic Forum. God Bless you Joe! I really am over and out on this thread. It will do my blood pressure a world of good.

 

[Brother2]

I would like to repost the link. I had to go searching for it. here it is again. Now I will read it.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya.html?searched=freemasonry&advsearch=oneword&highlight=ajaxSearch_highlight+ajaxSearch_highlight1

Thank you very much for that workingman, I have seen your name regularly.

I am looking up your Website as I speak, it is well made and professionally set up.

Thanks. Michael. Ps I only have dial-up internet, maybe that makes a difference.

 

[Brother2]

I would like to repost the link. I had to go searching for it. here it is again. Now I will read it.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya.html?searched=freemasonry&advsearch=oneword&highlight=ajaxSearch_highlight+ajaxSearch_highlight1

Thank you very much for that workingman, I have seen your name regularly.

I am looking up your Website as I speak, it is well made and professionally set up.

Thanks. Michael. Ps I only have dial-up internet, maybe that makes a difference.

 

[workingman]

One source for …Jesuits and the Masonic is from an ex Roman Catholic and has his own website in South Africa, agreed he can be sensationalist but is very interesting indeed… so here we go…www.amazingdiscoveries.org/the-new-age-movement-and-maitreya. Mixed in with New Age stuff and Spiritualism etc.

A very interesting Website ladies and gentlemen. Even slightly weird, strange but true, fact is stranger than fiction, the truth will make you free…Michael.

Brother2, I looked at this guys web sight and I think this guy is nuts. I did not see any credible backing at all for saying Jesuits have anything to do with Masonic things. Trying to trace a line between the symbols used. This guy is :whacky: IMO.