Freemasonry A Evil Group

[KyivAndrew]

I am very curious to learn more about why the Church has stood against Freemasonry for almost 400 years. I have read the papal bulls and found them without merit. Furthermore, I would say that they are definately not filled with love.
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Dallas, apart from the Papal Bulls have you actually read the links I posted to the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Criticism that Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity, the Australian Anglican’s Synod Condemnation of Freemasonry, the Presbyterian Church’s Condemnation of Freemasonry, the Lutheran Synod’s biting Condemnation of Freemasonry, the Orthodox Church’s, the Baptist Union of Scotland and Great Britain’s, the Methodist Church’s Condemnation.

These are all either Orthodox or Protestant Churches and they condemn, sometimes in harsher words than the Catholic, the INCOMPATIBILITY between Masonry and Christianity. So a political struggle between Catholicism and Freemasonry is quite off the mark. Most people don’t realize that the other Christian Churches in researching Freemasonry come up with the same objections. Why? Political fights? No because the Church takes the Salvation of the Human Soul through Jesus Christ as its Divine Mission. I know you seem to have problems accepting this because you are confused by reading too much amatuer hocus-pocus stuff on the Knights Templar which tells you it surely must be a power struggle and not a question of religion vs. occult. How do Methodists, Presbyterians, the Anglicans fit into some bizarre Knight Templar fight against the Vatican? Answer they don’t, because the objections they and Catholics raise relate to Freemasonry’s occultic spiritual nature.

Sure one can always find your standard non-overly interested Mason who doesn’t think twice about the rituals he has to go through to advance up the Brotherhood, as long as he finds friends, has some drinks, business contacts, etc. It is only the smarter ones, not the dunces, who actually “study” what is exactly involved in the ritual who slowly begin realizing its anti-Christian character and feel uncomfortable in making horrendous vows in front of an Altar in a Pagan Temple and blindfolded.

Heck, Dallas, I will even do you the favor of quoting from your own state’s Grand Lodge to bring this closer to home:
the most learned among Masonic scholars conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to…the Temples of India, Chaldea, Greece and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic orders.
Source: Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982, p.XIV

Surely you must have a copy of your state’s Masonic Monitor buried somewhere in there where you keep your Masonic vestments in the closet, or check out your local lodge’s library.

Now if your own State Masonic Lodge preaches the above MYSTIC non-Christian orders and argues that the Masonic religion originates from these pagan and/or non-Christian sources, could you really be that brainwashed to not see that The Roman Catholic Church condemned the Gnostic heresy years ago, and that Jesus Christ and the Church who prolongs the Apostolic Succession will have nothing to do with having their members become members of a Masonic Religion which propagates the origins of their beliefs from Temples in India in which reincarnation is believed, or the ancient Mediterranean mystic cults which were so abhorrent to the early Church.

This is no laughing matter. I will thoroughly enjoy pointing out more of your ritual on this Forum, whether from the Blue Lodge, Scottish rite, York rite and its incompatibility with Christianity.

But let me ask you this Dallas Texas, firstly, who are the profane* in Freemasonry’s eyes? Profane in your standard English Dictionary means one who is “characterized by irreverence or contempt for God or sacred principles; unholy.”

I know the answer but I wish to hear from you specifically so other readers can see: Dallas, Who are the Profane in Freemasonry’s Eyes?

I’m sure I will thoroughly enjoy your answer and what hoops you will try to jump through, unless of course you don’t rise to the challenge and answer the question. *

 

[KyivAndrew]

I continue to say that Freemasonry is not a religion abeit many of it’s members are religious.
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Well that is not what any of Masonry’s widely-respected authorites say.

In the 1950s when Father Walton Hannah (Anglican later Catholic) wrote Darkness Visible and thoroughly sent shockwaves through world-wide Masonry in showing how its secret initiation rites were anti-Christian, Grand Lodge in England wrote an official rebuttal on behalf of worldwide Masonry by an Anglican called Light Invisible. He was speaking for the entire Grand Lodge, whether in the U.K. or U.S. He wrote under a pseudonym Vindex.

Vindex literally called Freemasonry a “SUPERRELIGION”.
Vindex wrote with the Lodge’s full support:

“We now come to the core of the matter. What is the religion of Freemasonry?
It is the oldest of all religious systems ,dating from time immemorial. It is itself not a separate religion…but it embodies in itself the fundamental truths and ancient mysteries on which every religion is based.
As Masons, we believe in God, the Father, Almighty. As Christian Masons we may believe in a symbolic triune essence…As Moslem Masons we are equally entitled to believe that Mahomet is His Prophet. WITH THESE SUBSIDIARY AND SECONDARY BELIEFS MASONRY HAS NOTHING TO DO”

There it is in plain black-and-white from the World’s Highest Ranked Lodge at the time in England, from the horse’s mouth: Catholicism and Christianity are merely SUBSIDIARY and SECONDARY beliefs to Masonry’s “Total God”.

Now NO knowledgeable and devout Catholic could ever believe his Catholicism and Jesus Christ as Son of God and Saviour are simply “secondary” beliefs to what a bunch of middle-aged men learn in secret rituals wearing funny kitchen aprons in secret initiation rites in their temples.

JESUS CHRIST and belief in HIM is supreme to the Catholic not an amorphous GAOTU whose real pagan name is not revealed unless one is exalted into Masonry’s Holy Royal Arch. What other organization besides a Church would have HOLY ALTARS, SACRED TENETS, or GRAND PRIESTS. Those altars are neither holy in Catholicism but are blasphemy.

God Bless!

 

[human_being]

Where are you Dallas? Although I disagree with you, I do miss hearing from you.

 

[joe_clark]

You see brother Masons, it is not just the Catholic Church that condemns and criticizes Freemasonry, the fact is MORE and MORE Christian Churches with passing years are increasingly concerned and critical of Freemasonry. Heck, even that once secure bastion of Freemasonry, the Anglican Church, is seriously reappraising Freemasonry’s compatibility with Christianity, with the Australian thoroughly condemning it.

So I guess, the Catholics, the Methodists, the Anglicans, the Lutherans, the Orthodox, the Presbyterians, the Baptists must be all be wrong in condemning Freemasonry in their respective working groups which analyzed Freemasonry. O.K. one church I understand: but when the bulk of Christian denominations all have serious concerns about Freemasonry and its incompatibility, the smart move for the Christian is to believe what your Catholic or Christian Church tells you and not some shill for the Brotherhood. These Churches are attempting to defend Jesus Christ and far from seeing the Craft as an ally, they see the significant problems it poses to a Christian’s conscience and the fact that no amount of dissimulation from a Sacred Brother coming on here to explain to us profane that he really is worshipping Christ in his Lodge will do. Nobody I believe is condemning anyone here as evil, but we are just drawing attention to what the bulk of Church hierarchies think of Freemasonry, and the negative assessments are not just shared by the Catholics, and with good cause. If some poster hereafter wants to come make the case that all these Church’s interpretations of Christ vs. Freemasonry are wrong, well it should take quite the megalomaniac or fool to simply dismiss all the churches as misinformed or wrong. Nevertheless, I’m sure we’ll find some devout follower of Masonry below willing to tell us and all these Churches that we are all stupid, maybe in not these words.

God Bless All!

As you describe it, it can also look like many other entities are trying to keep their place at the table.
You seem busy trying real hard to prove a negative? But are the Masons really as scary as you say or is this just a yellow/ blue / light mauve alert moment? Is the Mason organization, just like other organizations being villified because they are popular, work in communities, give millions of dollars to charities usually for children and not based on religion? See I did some checking too.

Is it because there are Masons that happen to be: Lutherans, Baptists, Catholics, and many other religions that stand together for a common cause to assist the communities they live in? I believe this is what frightens the pants off of the Vatican and any other controlling entity. It may be that religion plays a part and not all or controls the organization? Funny though, to be a Mason, you must believe in God, the God is of your choosing, oh and when they open a lodge meeting there is a bible that is placed open and reference is made to hold St. John. Don’t seem that scary to me. You may find that as you get older and wiser, people do not make judgement upon others based on what someone tells them. I believe people can make their own decisions. Love all Serve the Lord.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Dallas stated, "Not only do I not agree with the Pope on this issue, I don’t agree with many of my leaders.

On any given day, I don’t agree with President Obama, and I still call myself an American–and proudly so.

On any given day, I don’t agree with the chairman of the corporation for which I work, yet I am still an employee.

I can disagree with leaders of the lodge, and I am still a mason…"

Amen.

Sorry, there’s just no comparison. In matters of faith and morals (and declaring something a sin is a matter of morals) – a Catholic MUST give their ASSENT to their religious leaders (i.e., Bishops and especially the Pope). I refer you to Lumen Gentium (25), the Catechism (e.g., 892), and Canon Law (e.g., 752) for starters.

To disregard the Church’s teaching that something is a sin (and the Church DOES teach that masonic association is a sin) - yes you are still a Catholic, but you are a Catholic in a state of grave sin (assuming you know that the Church teaches that said action is sinful and you still willfully engage in it – which you appear to know and still to be doing).

 

[DallasTexas]

In Craft Freemasonry, God is the Great Architect of the Universe (their code word TGAOTU). The name of the Great Architect is revealed in the rite of the Holy Arch as JAHBULON. This is a composite name comprising the Hebrew God JAH (Yahweh), the Canaanite fertility deity, BUL (Baal, who had licentious rites of imitative magic), and ON (Osiris, the ancient Egyptian god of the underworld). This syncretistic view of God is quite incompatible with the God who has been revealed supremely and uniquely in Jesus Christ. And moreover, Freemasons are forbidden on penalty of decapitation to say this name - something I have witnessed myself. “Darkness is for those without” says the Royal Arch ritual in revealing “the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, JAHBULON”. Funny grapefruit.

KyivAndrew,

Thank you for your post.

I believe GOD, The Great Architect of the Universe, Heavenly Father, Most Heavenly Father, Yahweh, Dios, Deo and numerous other names are all good when spoken with the proper reverence and respect that should be shown.

Wow! The other accusations are pretty serious. I would even say damning.

Unfortunately however, I think we’re moving from grapefruit to bologna…

I find it difficult to believe that my fellow brother masons are sitting around worshiping golden calves, Canaanite fertility gods, or some gods of the Egyptian underworld…

I’ve posted the below link when a previous post made a similar accusation about Jahbulon.

masonicinfo.com/name.htm

The page explains the significants of Jahbulon as follows:

“Jah was the Syriac name of God, Bel (Baal), the Chaldean, and On, the Egyptian”

It really appears to me that the name Jabulon is nothing more than a combining of the name of God from different languages…

Hardly anything evil.

Once again, thank you for your post.

 

[DallasTexas]

Where are you Dallas? Although I disagree with you, I do miss hearing from you.

Hey human being,

Hope you’re doing well.

I was doing yard work Sat afternoon and out and about yesterday with the kiddos. Trying to catch-up during lunch. Will write more soon.

A lot of good post I hope to respond to!

Thank you,

 

[KyivAndrew]

I’ve posted the below link when a previous post made a similar accusation about Jahbulon.

masonicinfo.com/name.htm

The page explains the significants of Jahbulon as follows:

“Jah was the Syriac name of God, Bel (Baal), the Chaldean, and On, the Egyptian”

It really appears to me that the name Jabulon is nothing more than a combining of the name of God from different languages…

Hardly anything evil.
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But totally anti-Christian which you cannot seem to understand. From the Masonic link you provide on what Jahbulon is:

“Men have to decide whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Jahweh, a partisan, tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational, and international, Divine Spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that He cannot be known, named, or approached. So soon as man begins to laud his God and endow Him with the most perfect human attributes such as justice, mercy, beneficence, etc., the Divine essence is depreciated and despoiled.”

This is blasphemy. Man in Christianity can know God. His son is called Jesus Christ and He lived on earth, was crucified for our salvation, and rose from the grave in conquering death. We can laud God, Jesus, and must, unlike your Masonic God above which claims we only depreciate Him by lauding him. Unlike in the Masonic encyclopedia quote above from Coil’s you provided, we are not a “speck called man”. Again, you argue for blasphemy. We are not a speck. We are made in God’s image. I actually can’t believe you are going to defend that quote, which I was well aware of before you posted. It is simply anti-Christian and anti-Christ. You provided the link. Jesus Christ is not Jahbulon - Jahbulon is blasphemy but thanks for pointing out the link so each reader can read it and decide whether he or she is indeed merely “a speck called man” or a human being made in God’s image whom God loves with all His heart.

Again, Dallas, let me ask you: Who are the profane in Freemasonry? You have not answered this yet, but I do appreciate your arguments for grave sin on this thread.

 

[DallasTexas]

Part I of II

KyivAndrew,

Thank you again very much for your post and questions.

Albert Mackey, who is revered as a Masonic expert in Freemasonry and whose books are readily available in any Masonic Library is merely stating the obvious when he writes:

"On the contrary, we contend, without any sort of hesitation, that Freemasonry is, in every sense of the word except one, and that its least philosophical, an eminently religious institution--that it is indebted solely to the religious element it contains for its origin as well as its continued existence.. . . The tendency of all Freemasonry is toward religion. If it makes any progress, its progress is toward that holy end. Look at its ancient landmarks, its sublime ceremonies, its profound symbols and allegories--all inculcating religious doctrine, commanding religious observance, and teaching religious truth, and who can deny that it is eminently a religious Institution. . . . We open and close our Lodges with prayer; we invoke the presence of the Most High upon all our labors; we demand of our neophytes a profession of trusting belief in the existence and the superintending care of God; and we teach them to bow with humility and reverence at His awful name., while His holy Law is widely opened upon our altars” (Mackey: 847).

I can understand were Mackey is coming from. We do pray, we do require a belief in GOD to be a mason, we do have a Holy Bible on an alter. Personally I believe that the words “religious institution” is probably too strong and can be easily misconstrued to mean religion by non-masons. Masonry however is not a religion, but may of the rituals do have religious meaning.

Every mason has his own opinion as to the origins of masonry. Personally I believe it descended from the Knights Templar hence the religious type of rituals.

It is clear, then, that both according to the basic definition of “religion,” and according to the testimony of the ritual and authoritative writings of Masonry itself, that Freemasonry is primarily a religious institution. (source: Lutheran Condemnation of Freemasonry).

I would venture to say that most masons I know are religious men.

J. S. M. Ward, the author of several standard Masonic works, defines religion as “a system of teaching moral truth associated with a belief in God” and then declares: “I consider Freemasonry is a sufficiently organized school of mysticism to be entitled to be called a religion.” He goes on to say: “I boldly aver that Freemasonry is a religion, yet in no way conflicts with any other religion, unless that religion holds that no one outside its portals can be saved” (Freemasonry: Its Aims and Ideals, pp. 182, 185, 187).

This is an interesting quote. I don’t know Mr. J.S.M. Ward and would, barring additional information, most likely disagree with the quote.

T. S. Webb said in his Masonic Monitor: “The meeting of a Masonic Lodge is strictly a religious ceremony. The religious tenets of Masonry are few, simple, but fundamental. No lodge or Masonic assembly can be regularly opened or closed without prayer” (p. 284).

Guilty as charged. We pray at the beginning and end of every lodge meeting. We did the same thing when I was in boy scouts, at the beginning of high school football games, and before my high school and college graduations.

Albert G. Mackey, former General High Priest of the General Grand Chapter of the United States, and the author of numerous works on Masonry, has this to say: “Freemasonry is emphatically a religious institution; it teaches the existence of God. It points to the celestial canopy above where is the Eternal Lodge and where He presides. It instructs us in the way to reach the portals of that distant temple” The Mystic Tie, p. 32). And in his Lexicon of Freemasonry the same celebrated authority asserts: “The religion, then, of Masonry is pure Theism” (p. 404).

Anti-masons love to quote from Albert Mackey and Albert Pike. Most masons (including myself) have never read them. Albert Mackey was the Grand Master of South Carolina (per wikipedia) and the leader of the Souther Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite (I think). I was not able to find anything saying that he was the General High Priest of the General Grand Chapter of the United States. I’m not doubting it–just wasn’t able to find anything stating this.

It is important to remember that masons may write and publish pretty much what ever they so desire to publish. It in no way means that other masons are some how required to believe it. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Church of Latter-Day Saints, was a mason–you don’t see a bunch of masons becoming Mormons due to this fact.

Regarding Mackey’s quote, I don’t think masonry teaches the existence of God. Prior belief is required before becoming a member.

As far as the quote “instructing us in the way to reach the portals of that distant temple,” what temple is he talking about?

Heaven?

I’ve never seen anything that resembles a plan of salvation in masonry.

 

[DallasTexas]

Part II of II

Extremely significant is the testimony of Joseph Fort Newton, a zealous advocate of Masonic principles. He deplores the fact that within the lodge there are many who regard it as “a mere social order inculcating ethical ideals and practicing philanthropy.” He continues: “As some of us prefer to put it, Masonry is not a religion but Religion—not a church but a worship, in which men of all religions may unite” (The Religion of Masonry, pp. 10, 11). With this agrees A. G. Mackey’s declaration: “The truth is that Masonry is undoubtedly a religious institution, its religion being of that universal kind in which all men agree” (Textbook of Masonic Jurisdiction, p. 95).

Kyiv, you can find worse done and written by masons. Henry Ford was a mason and wrote very hate-filled, anti-semitic document. Benedict Arnold was a mason and a traitor. George Wallace was a mason and a segregationist. However, the actions and words of a few does not undermine the entire organization.

Just think where the Roman Catholic Church would be if we let the acts of a few of our priest sway the opinion of the entire Church.

Conclusion: Masonry is the Supreme Supra-Religion according to Masonic experts themselves.

and we have a secret key to Heaven’s back door…

Of course, Masons are obligated and compelled to dissimulate to the profane (us Catholics) should one corner them on their secrets.

seriously?

May Jesus Christ, and not Jahbulon, bless us all.

Peace be with you.

 

[DallasTexas]

Well that is not what any of Masonry’s widely-respected authorites say.

Who’s the masonic widely-respected authority?

In the 1950s when Father Walton Hannah (Anglican later Catholic) wrote Darkness Visible and thoroughly sent shockwaves through world-wide Masonry in showing how its secret initiation rites were anti-Christian,

How are they anti-Christian?

Grand Lodge in England wrote an official rebuttal on behalf of worldwide Masonry by an Anglican called Light Invisible. He was speaking for the entire Grand Lodge, whether in the U.K. or U.S. He wrote under a pseudonym Vindex.

Speaking for the entire Grand Lodge??? What does that mean? There are 51 Grand Lodges in the US alone. There are 2 (I think) in England. Another on in Scotland… another in Ireland… Generally speaking each country has its own autonomous Grand Lodge. I’ve never heard of someone speaking for the entire Grand Lodge in UK and/or US.

Something’s not adding up here. This doesn’t make sense.

Vindex literally called Freemasonry a “SUPERRELIGION”.
Vindex wrote with the Lodge’s full support:

“We now come to the core of the matter. What is the religion of Freemasonry?
It is the oldest of all religious systems ,dating from time immemorial. It is itself not a separate religion…but it embodies in itself the fundamental truths and ancient mysteries on which every religion is based.
As Masons, we believe in God, the Father, Almighty. As Christian Masons we may believe in a symbolic triune essence…As Moslem Masons we are equally entitled to believe that Mahomet is His Prophet. WITH THESE SUBSIDIARY AND SECONDARY BELIEFS MASONRY HAS NOTHING TO DO”

There it is in plain black-and-white from the World’s Highest Ranked Lodge at the time in England, from the horse’s mouth: Catholicism and Christianity are merely SUBSIDIARY and SECONDARY beliefs to Masonry’s “Total God”.

So are you telling me that some unknown guy, using an alias, wrote a bunch of incriminating stuff about Freemasonry? What am I missing here?

Now NO knowledgeable and devout Catholic could ever believe his Catholicism and Jesus Christ as Son of God and Saviour are simply “secondary” beliefs to what a bunch of middle-aged men learn in secret rituals wearing funny kitchen aprons in secret initiation rites in their temples.

I agree. No mason is ever asked to put God, family or country before masonry.

The average mason is probably above middle-age; I will take that as a compliment.

JESUS CHRIST and belief in HIM is supreme to the Catholic not an amorphous GAOTU whose real pagan name is not revealed unless one is exalted into Masonry’s Holy Royal Arch. What other organization besides a Church would have HOLY ALTARS, SACRED TENETS, or GRAND PRIESTS. Those altars are neither holy in Catholicism but are blasphemy.

Friend, I believe you have been misled about the GAOTU pagan thing.

I believe the rest (ie altars and priest) to be hold-overs from the Knights Templar days.

God Bless!

May God bless you too, and thank you for your post.

 

[DallasTexas]

Again, Dallas, let me ask you: Who are the profane in Freemasonry? You have not answered this yet, but I do appreciate your arguments for grave sin on this thread.

KyivAndrew,

Thank you for your post.

**Profane **(from the book: “Masonic Words and Phrases,” by Michael R. Poll):

*Fanum *was Latin for temple; *pro *meant “before,” in the sense of “outside of.” It is the picture of man standing on the outside, not permitted to enter. It has this same sense in Masonry; the “profane” are those men and women who stand outside of Masonry. The word here, of course, has nothing to do with profanity in the sense of sacrilegious language.

Thank you again for your post and question. I will try to answer the rest soon.

 

[KyivAndrew]

So are you telling me that some unknown guy, using an alias, wrote a bunch of incriminating stuff about Freemasonry? What am I missing here?
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You’re missing a lot evidently, but again I AM DELIGHTED that you agree the quote is incriminating stuff about Freemasonry because it was written by a Freemasonic authority himself -Vindex - who was an Anglican Minister whose book in 1952 Light Invisible, A Freemason’s Answer to Darkness Visible (Britons Publishing Co, 1952) remains the only officially recognized by United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) response to a damning book written by a religious priest Walton Hannah that showed how Freemasonry’s rituals were incompatible with Christianity. Vindex? He was a Mason and if you want to find out why he chose a pseudonym write to UGLE. UGLE has never ever disowned what he wrote and you know that UGLE has been recognized for a long time as the Mother Lodge of World Freeemasonry (along with the U.S. HQ in Georgia) and that’s why all those Grand Orients on Continental Europe always petitioned UGLE for recognition so that they could be accepted as legitimate Masonic Lodges in the world. You should know this if you’re so zealously defending the Craft on here.

Again the quote from Vindex authorized by UGLE apparently and never disowned is:

“We now come to the core of the matter. What is the religion of Freemasonry?
It is the oldest of all religious systems ,dating from time immemorial. It is itself not a separate religion…but it embodies in itself the fundamental truths and ancient mysteries on which every religion is based.
As Masons, we believe in God, the Father, Almighty. As Christian Masons we may believe in a symbolic triune essence…As Moslem Masons we are equally entitled to believe that Mahomet is His Prophet. WITH THESE SUBSIDIARY AND SECONDARY BELIEFS MASONRY HAS NOTHING TO DO”

So Catholicism and Christianity are merely SUBSIDIARY and SECONDARY beliefs to Masonry’s “Total God” and this has never been disowned by UGLE. Vindex put tons of effort in defending Freemasonry in that book using all the means available to Grand Lodge and him. I am glad that you find this highly-known defence of Freemasonry to be “incriminating” of Freemasonry in your words.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Guilty as charged. We pray at the beginning and end of every lodge meeting. We did the same thing when I was in boy scouts, at the beginning of high school football games, and before my high school and college graduations.
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That is a disingenuous analogy. Neither the boy scouts, high school football teams or students have a separate Temple with Holy Royal Arches and Altars hidden from the profane outside world.

In the Holy Royal Arch ritual (the self-styled Supreme Degree) Freemasons pray to JAHBULON. What High School or Boy Scout’s Association prays to JAHBULON. Never heard of one Dallas.

Again I will quote from the Anglican Church’s General Synod work Freemasonry and Christianity: Are They Compatible?, London, 1987. The reason I’m quoting from them and not a Catholic source is because already on this thread you’ve associated Hitler with the Catholic Church (anytime someone attaches Hitler to the opposing side, here meaning the Catholic Church, you know where their loyalties lie), and because you believe this is strictly a Catholic vs. Freemasonry dispute when, in fact, as I’ve linked to, it is a Christianity vs. Freemasonry dispute, with you arguing for the latter.

In the Holy Royal Arch, the god “Baal” in reality is the evil Canaanite nature deity to whom children were ritually sacrificed and who was an appellation for the devil in the Bible (and believe me, the authors of the Holy Royal Arch ritual in 19th century England knew their Bible and what they were getting at; they were not dunces; give them some credit) and this god appears as BUL on the Masonic Altar:

“There is no dispute between Freemasons and their fiercest critics that both the word Jehovah and the composite word, Jahbulon, appear on the Masonic altar, on top of which is inscribed a circle, containing a triangle. Around the circle is inscribed the name JEHOVAH and on the three sides of the triangle the letters JAH BUL ON…To all this must be added the third and final feature of the top of the pedestal: the Hebrew characters set at the angles of the triangle: Alif, Beth, and Lamed, each of which is said to have reference to the deity or to some divine attribute. Take each combination of the letters with the whole, and it will read thus: Ab Bal, Al Bal, and Lab Bal. The obvious result of such juggling of the Hebrew characters is to emphasize the formation of Bal, the name of a Semitic deity bitterly opposed by Elijah and the later Hebrew prophets; to associate this name in any way with that of Jehovah would have deeply shocked them.”
(Anglican Working Group, London: Church House, 1987, pp.27-29.

Again Dallas, I am willing to give the Masonic Authors of this ritual more credit than you seem to. They knew their Bible in and out and they knew exactly what Bal referred to in the Bible. The “sacred” point they were trying to get out, and which they also got from studying the MidEastern mystery cults, was that in God there is both good and evil - a concept supremely against the Christian God. Dallas, the authors of your ritual were slightly more intelligent and sneaky than you give them credit for.

Again, what Boy Scouts’ unit or High School Football team prays to Jahbulon?

 

[Oneheartway]

“Oneheartaway, what degree Mason are you? Have you reached 32nd degree in Scottish rite? Or are you strictly stuck in the lower degrees in Blue Lodge?”

I am a Master Mason.

Duty to family, God and country take precedence, so while I have been offered the Scottish Rite amongst other offerings, I have chosen to not pursue it as yet. There is much to be learned in the Blue Lodge and I do not consider it a competition to accomplish ranks in any period of time whether it be short or long.

In freemasonry, there is no greater honor than to become a Master Mason.

When I asked my grandfather why he became a Mason, he stated “I saw them as a better class of people and wanted to be counted amongst them”. I agreed with his statement and joined the lodge. My grandfather was not a catholic, but he was a great man who through his acts of kindness to strangers as well as friends help lead me to the lodge.

 

[KyivAndrew]

There is much to be learned in the Blue Lodge.

There is even more to be learned from Jesus Christ and His Church!

However, I thank you for your honesty and do hope you seriously consider the Holy See’s concern for souls who join the lodge.

May God Bless You!

 

[KyivAndrew]

Heck, might as well finish with the Royal Arch Ritual so nobody thinks it’s just useless info.:
In the Holy (Holy!?) Royal Arch:

“They (initiates) rise and give signs, from the Entered Apprentice up to this Degree, after which they join in squads of three for giving the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, as follows:…As we three did agree, in peace, love, and unity, the Sacred Word to search; until we three, or three such as we, shall agree to close this Royal Arch. They then balance three times three, bringing the right hand with some violence down upon the left. The right hands are then raised above their heads, and the words, Jah-buh-lun-Je-ho-vah, G-o-d, are given at low breath, each companion pronouncing the syllables or letters alternately.”

Each member exalted into Holy Royal Arch is only allowed to pronounce one syllable of the Grand Omnific Word at a time. They are not allowed to say the entire name Jahbulon. Again, as I’ve stated before, I know this from personal experience knowing a family member high-up in Freemasonry who froze like a five-year old when I asked him to pronounce Jahbulon. A grown man, lips shut tight. This isn’t childish hocus-pocus, it’s capital “B” Blasphemy against Christ for those who actually still worry about things like this.

The Freemasonic penalty for saying Jahbulon out loud or “divulging any of the secrets of this degree unlawfully”:

“I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him for the same, whether he be right or wrong…To all of this which I do most solemnly swear…; binding myself under no less penalty, than to have my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the Meridian sun, should I knowingly or willfully violate or transgress any part of this solemn oath or obligation of a Royal Arch Mason. So help me God”

Now this is blasphemy pure and simple. In binding God in an oath to torture - blasphemy. If for fun the oath - blasphemy for using God’s name for a joke. It’s a catch 22. And it does not matter one bit as one poster put it to LOL in taking these bloody oaths, the fact remains they work as I’ve seen personally in discussing this with Masons inside and outside of my family to put the fear of God in them, not because they literally think they’ll lose their heads, but because they are bound by their Companions and scared. Using the Bible for any such oaths is a Sin (and I know many here posters don’t care about sin). No Christian, however, in his right mind should take that oath. I cannot see how either the false name for God Jahbulon or the oath is not blasphemy and for one to argue counter, one must really be quite anti-Christian I believe or confused.

May God Bless All!

 

[KyivAndrew]

From Stephen Knight’s The Brotherhood, a bestseller in the country where Masonry is the strongest apart from the U.S., the U.K. amazon.com/Brotherhood-Explosive-Expose-Secret-Freemasons/dp/0586059830

He was an unbiased non-Catholic mainstream writer on Freemasonry:

“I have spoken to no less than fifty-seven long-standing Royal Arch Freemasons who have been happy to talk to me, to help me in my ambition to give Freemasonry ‘a fair crack of the whip.’ Most of them spoke quite freely, explaining without hesitation their views, reactions and answers to the criticisms and queries I raised. However, all but four lost their self-assurance and composure when I said, ‘What about Jah-Bul-On?’ Some, although they had previously told me they had been exalted to the Royal Arch, and therefore must have not only received the lecture on the name but also studied the passages and enacted the ritual relating to Jah-Bul-On, said they had never heard of it. In most cases the interviewees very rapidly brought the meeting to a close when I asked the question. Others laughed unconvincingly and extricated themselves from having to reply by jauntily saying such words as, ‘Oh, that old chestnut’, and passing quickly on to some other subject, normally going on the offensive with something like, 'Why are you so interested in Freemasonry in particular? Why don’t you look into Christianity or something?..thereby diverting the conversation…If I insisted on returning to Jah-Bul-On, almost invariably the interview would be unceremoniously terminated.” (pg.237)

Going on the offensive against Catholicism or Christianity seems to be the preferred method of some posters here who continue to preach for grave sin. Should they stop, we can leave well enough alone. But if someone has drank too much koolaid from the local lodge’s ritualistic stew and can’t get enough of defending Masonry, well I guess it’s just a faithful Catholic’s responsibility to keep on responding on a Catholic Forum of all places.

God Bless All!

 

[DallasTexas]

KyivAndrew,

Thank you again for your post.

You’re missing a lot evidently, but again I AM DELIGHTED that you agree the quote is incriminating stuff about Freemasonry because it was written by a Freemasonic authority himself -Vindex - who was an Anglican Minister whose book in 1952 Light Invisible, A Freemason’s Answer to Darkness Visible (Britons Publishing Co, 1952) remains the only officially recognized by United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) response to a damning book written by a religious priest Walton Hannah that showed how Freemasonry’s rituals were incompatible with Christianity. Vindex? He was a Mason and if you want to find out why he chose a pseudonym write to UGLE.

Okay. This is interesting.

UGLE has never ever disowned what he wrote and you know that UGLE has been recognized for a long time as the Mother Lodge of World Freeemasonry (along with the U.S. HQ in Georgia)

Do what? UGLE is the mother lodge of the world freemasonry? The US HQ is in Georgia???

I really think you are getting some bad info. True, UGLE was the first Grand Lodge to organize but I wouldn’t consider it the Mother Lodge of the World the Freemasonry. I am not saying that the UGLE does not call itself that, but so does the Scottish Rite of the Souther Jurisdiction (and it doesn’t even have jurisdiction over all of the states in the US).

For blue masonry (local lodge masonry), there are 51 autonomous grand lodges. One for each state and the District of Columbia.

and that’s why all those Grand Orients on Continental Europe always petitioned UGLE for recognition so that they could be accepted as legitimate Masonic Lodges in the world. You should know this if you’re so zealously defending the Craft on here.

This is very misleading. Most Grand Orients in Continental Europe did receive a charter from the UGLE. Unfortunately however, most no longer hold masonic communications with the UGLE. The reason for this, at least in France and I think Italy, is that the orients removed the requirement the members believe in God as a prerequisite. Grand Lodges have popped up in their same jurisdiction that do require belief in God–so it is a kind of dual masonry for some countries.

The Grand Lodge of Texas received its charter from the Grand Lodge of Louisiana.

Again the quote from Vindex authorized by UGLE apparently and never disowned is:

“We now come to the core of the matter. What is the religion of Freemasonry?
It is the oldest of all religious systems ,dating from time immemorial. It is itself not a separate religion…but it embodies in itself the fundamental truths and ancient mysteries on which every religion is based.
As Masons, we believe in God, the Father, Almighty. As Christian Masons we may believe in a symbolic triune essence…As Moslem Masons we are equally entitled to believe that Mahomet is His Prophet. WITH THESE SUBSIDIARY AND SECONDARY BELIEFS MASONRY HAS NOTHING TO DO”

The UGLE never disowned a writing from one of its members and I doubt it will. However, in all likelihood, it would not disown a work from another member that states the polar opposite. Think of it more like the work of a tenured professor. He or she may right some controversial material that is though provoking maybe even alarming, but the university affords him or her that ability.

When John J. Robinson (who at which time was not a mason) published the controversial “Born in Blood,” a grand secretary of one state’s grand lodge said that he was going to try to have the book as banned reading for masons in said state. The grand master quickly spoke up and said that there are not banned books for masons, masons do not ban books and that masons are grown men and may choose to read what they read.

Outside of book reviews, I’ve have not heard of a grand lodge owning or disowning a publication.

So Catholicism and Christianity are merely SUBSIDIARY and SECONDARY beliefs to Masonry’s “Total God” and this has never been disowned by UGLE. Vindex put tons of effort in defending Freemasonry in that book using all the means available to Grand Lodge and him. I am glad that you find this highly-known defence of Freemasonry to be “incriminating” of Freemasonry in your words.

I still say that someone is selling you bad seeds. You’re looking for something that’s just not there.

This reminds me of the story of the guy that took his car to a mechanic convinced that the government had put gremlins in the engine which were causing his motor problems. No matter how hard the mechanic looked and how hard he tried to convince him that there were no gremlins in his engine, he could not convince the customer. The customer eventually left the mechanic’s shop convinced that the mechanic was in on the scheme with the government.

Some people can see boy scouts singing around a campfire; others can see the same scene and think it is some ancient pagan ritual…

Thank you again for your post.

 

[DallasTexas]

KyivAndrew,

Thank you again for your post.

That is a disingenuous analogy. Neither the boy scouts, high school football teams or students have a separate Temple with Holy Royal Arches and Altars hidden from the profane outside world.

In the Holy Royal Arch ritual (the self-styled Supreme Degree) Freemasons pray to JAHBULON. What High School or Boy Scout’s Association prays to JAHBULON. Never heard of one Dallas.

Again I will quote from the Anglican Church’s General Synod work Freemasonry and Christianity: Are They Compatible?, London, 1987. The reason I’m quoting from them and not a Catholic source is because already on this thread you’ve associated Hitler with the Catholic Church (anytime someone attaches Hitler to the opposing side, here meaning the Catholic Church, you know where their loyalties lie), and because you believe this is strictly a Catholic vs. Freemasonry dispute when, in fact, as I’ve linked to, it is a Christianity vs. Freemasonry dispute, with you arguing for the latter.

Just for the record, here is my quote on that, and I will stand by it.

I meant it as a compliment. I really don’t think it was very nice to use the below in the way that it was mentioned above. Seems very misleading.

human being,

Thank you for your post.

I continue to say that Freemasonry is not a religion abeit many of it’s members are religious.

I am not and will not attempt to defend the actions of all of its members anymore than the Church would try to defend the actions of Its members Hitler, Mussolini, or Franco.

Thank you again.

I believe that you know that the quote was offered with no harm toward the Church.

Thank you again.