Freemasonry A Evil Group

[PeterClatworthy]

It is an absolute fact that it is totally impossible to be a member of the “product of the Enlightenment”, the Moderns freemasons, self started in a London public house in 1717, and a practicing Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

No thinking man could marry the two.

 

[masonicinfo]

If the Church can cease to anathematise Protestants, it should be able to perform the same motions towards Freemasons. It took over 400 years to decide that Protestants were “separated brethren” & not heretics - maybe, in 2150 or so, it will outgrow its anti-Masonry.

From your lips to God’s ear!

A well-reasoned and rational posting. Thank you!

Ed King
Webmaster www.masonicinfo.com Anti-Masonryoints of View

 

[masonicinfo]

It is an absolute fact that it is totally impossible to be a member of the “product of the Enlightenment”, the Moderns freemasons, self started in a London public house in 1717, and a practicing Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

No thinking man could marry the two.

Oh, gosh Peter: you get funnier and funnier with each post of yours I read.

For the viewing audience, you might want to have a bit of background on the group Mr. Clatworthy is (can I use the word “shilling” here?) representing. It’s all here at masonicinfo.com/glae.htm

Ed King
Webmaster www.masonicinfo.com Anti-Masonry: Points of View
and anathema to the ‘fake masonry’ (or masonrie if you prefer) wherever it exists!

 

[workingman]

joe clark;6078959]If you believe the freemasons are evil then we we have to assume that non-masons must look for a window to jump out of due to the fact that:

The following confirmed SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE that were known Masons were Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Joseph Hewes, William Hooper, Robert Treat Payne, Richard Stockton, George Walton, and William Whipple.

Evidence of Membership And/or Affiliations (7): Elbridge Berry, Lyman Hall, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Nelson Jr., John Penn, George Read and Roger Sherman.

Summary: 15 of 56 Signers were Freemasons or probable Freemasons.

I don’t see it as a reason to jump out of the proverbial window. These men though themselves not evil were part of what I would consider a evil organization and by evil I mean what can be seen as maybe anti Christian. This does not mean that The Declaration Of Independence are Masonic ideals nor the Pledge of Allegiance. They were patriotic men of a Masonic, Christian, Atheistic, ect… background.

This represents only 27% of the total signers. But this 27% included the principle movers of the Revolution, most notably Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, the primary architects and authors of the Declaration. The former was a Freemason, the latter a deist and possible Freemason. If one were to analyze the Declaration, we would see the masonic influences and symbols that exist today especially in Washing D.C… If this group is evil for the purpose of evil, then all Americans are the spawn from that evil? Just saying you can’t have it both ways. Everyday you say the Pledge of Alligance, you pledge to evil? Food for thought:shrug:.

Yes to deny the Masonic symbolism would be insane. I do not see much for masonic wording in the Declaration it self though. Like I stated earlier just because a person was part of a organization like the masons does not make the founding ideas or the pledge a masonic idea. my:twocents:

 

[PeterClatworthy]

Oh, gosh Peter: you get funnier and funnier with each post of yours I read.

For the viewing audience, you might want to have a bit of background on the group Mr. Clatworthy is (can I use the word “shilling” here?) representing. It’s all here at masonicinfo.com/glae.htm

Ed King
Webmaster www.masonicinfo.com Anti-Masonry: Points of View
and anathema to the ‘fake masonry’ (or masonrie if you prefer) wherever it exists!

This site and its contents are © (copyright) 1998-2009 by Edward L. King (Ed King). All rights reserved. All comments and opinions are mine personally. (SOURCE Mr King’s personal website entitled “masonicinfo”)

Now you may deal with a real issue for once Mr King without trying to add weight to your personal opinion by passing it off as something of substance more than it is, when it isn’t.

Try to put your fears and insecurities to one side.

It is a fact that is NOT possible to be a Moderns freemason and a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim. Why? Because its “naturalistic” god “Deus sive natura” is NOT the God of the Christian, Jewish or Islamic faiths. This is my opinion, AND the decision of the Roman Catholic Church.

Now THAT is the issue which you have not addressed.

Please try again because your unwillingness so to do in favour of the diversionary tactic of ad hominem attacks is self evident.

I will try to assist you:

The issue is your masonic belief in “a supreme being” (apparently there is more than one) - “Deus sive natura” - God and nature, indivisible and indistinguishable from each other, as opposed to our one true God, the Creator and Preserver of all things, and the immortality of souls.

THAT is the issue Mr King. Please try.

 

[Azaziel]

Is Freemasonry Evil? - No it promotes all mankind as brethern, regardless of religion, orientation or colour.

Does your “Christian Church” do this?

Now the real question should (in regards to secret societies) “Is Opus Dei evil?”

 

[joe_clark]

Now you may deal with a real issue for once Mr King without trying to add weight to your personal opinion by passing it off as something of substance more than it is, when it isn’t.

Try to put your fears and insecurities to one side.

It is a fact that is NOT possible to be a Moderns freemason and a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim. Why? Because its “naturalistic” god “Deus sive natura” is NOT the God of the Christian, Jewish or Islamic faiths. This is my opinion, AND the decision of the Roman Catholic Church.

Now THAT is the issue which you have not addressed.

Please try again because your unwillingness so to do in favour of the diversionary tactic of ad hominem attacks is self evident.

I will try to assist you:

The issue is your masonic belief in “a supreme being” (apparently there is more than one) - “Deus sive natura” - God and nature, indivisible and indistinguishable from each other, as opposed to our one true God, the Creator and Preserver of all things, and the immortality of souls.

THAT is the issue Mr King. Please try.

I believe there is a lot of assumption here with regard to other religions and organizations. There is nothing wrong with obtaining information to therefore make your own decisions…I for one do not have it all down and believe the same for many others. With regard to the Masons, it is a fraternal organization, that as part of joining, you must believe in a “Higher Power” or “A God”. I think this is were the real rub is. Because the Mason’s have not committed to One God, they are therefore percieved as a danger to others who do commit to One God.

This requirement by the Masons is to remind one that YOU are NOT the center of the universe and is also to “Ground” one or humble one. This is the info I’m geting from them. Never fear, talking with someone is not conspiring with the enemy, since I don’t see them that way. No one has asked me to join anything.

I am skeptical because in the past The Masons were buddies with the Catholic Church, then one day long ago, a human being decided to do a 360 and the Masons are not friends anymore.

At last at last conformation, 13 signers of our Constitution/Declaration of Independence were Masons. It is also believed that Thomas Jefferson was a quiet Mason? I am having a hard time and don’t believe that the 13 signers to include George Washington and Benjamin Franklin as eneimies of my religion or state. We will all survive.

 

[workingman]

Will these Freemasonry threads ever quit. I have yet to see a valid argument that proves that it is nothing but a bunch of garbage and the CC has spoken well and wisely in condemning it. It is simply that and being a member in such brings the penalty of grave sin and excommunication.

 

[Azaziel]

Yes the Catholic church is very wise…

Does your church include or exclude?

It excludes.

What about Opus Dei…let’s not go there eh?

It’s a Cult!.

But sure lets ban Freemasonry (which isn’t a religion and does not have any political motives)

And why ban Peter Clatworthy? (who actually wants dialogue with your Pope - whereas the rest of us couldn’t care less and have moved on with our lives)

Will Freemasonry go away - nope.

This thread is entitled non-Catholic religions, this is a non-catholic looking for intelligent dialogue about this subject, no generic put-downs

 

[workingman]

Azaziel;6281309]Yes the Catholic church is very wise…

Does your church include or exclude?

It excludes.

Azaziel, You say the Church excludes. I think the CC includes. It simply asks its members to not partake in a group that it finds incompatible. All are well come.

Masonry could also be said that it excludes.

What about Opus Dei…let’s not go there eh?

It’s a Cult!.

What makes you say it is a cult? I do not have the knowledge to comment on the group at this time.

But sure lets ban Freemasonry (which isn’t a religion and does not have any political motives)

I suggest that you read if you have not the papal letters concerning Freemasonry. They are found in this thread and others on this topic several times. or you can search for them hear. papalencyclicals.net/

And why ban Peter Clatworthy? (who actually wants dialogue with your Pope - whereas the rest of us couldn’t care less and have moved on with our lives)

No comment.

Will Freemasonry go away - nope.

This thread is entitled non-Catholic religions, this is a non-catholic looking for intelligent dialogue about this subject, no generic put-downs

You are correct I do not see Freemasonry going away in the future either. At this time that is neither here nor there. All that can be done is try to bring the flock back that has strayed.

You are correct in your statement about intelligent dialogue. I apologize if I have given a generic put down but I don’t feel I have.

 

[kenofken]

I don’t get why so many of you spent 40 pages of comments talking past each other on the subject. If you’re a mason, you’re wasting your time trying to defend the group to devout Catholics. The pope decreed it, they believe it. End of story. It has nothing to do with Freemasonry being singled out for special treatment. If the pope declared watching Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood was a sin or decided Mother Theresa was evil after all, those two would be persona non grata in devout Catholic households, no questions asked.

So the pope doesn’t approve of your organization. So what? He doesn’t approve of how most of the world’s people conduct their business, including probably 80% of Catholics. Apart from the Church, and a few wackjob conspiracy types, most people today see the masons as a morally neutral, old line respectable if quirky fraternal society. Your only threat these days comes from the general rot of social and civic apathy. On the other hand, if you’re on the devout Catholic side of the fence, why waste your breath. If a mason is non-Catholic, it’s no concern of yours whatsoever. If they are, it’s a matter between that person and God and probably their bishop. You must really have bigger fish to fry.

 

[gamewell45]

I don’t get why so many of you spent 40 pages of comments talking past each other on the subject. If you’re a mason, you’re wasting your time trying to defend the group to devout Catholics. The pope decreed it, they believe it. End of story. It has nothing to do with Freemasonry being singled out for special treatment. If the pope declared watching Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood was a sin or decided Mother Theresa was evil after all, those two would be persona non grata in devout Catholic households, no questions asked.

So the pope doesn’t approve of your organization. So what? He doesn’t approve of how most of the world’s people conduct their business, including probably 80% of Catholics. Apart from the Church, and a few wackjob conspiracy types, most people today see the masons as a morally neutral, old line respectable if quirky fraternal society. Your only threat these days comes from the general rot of social and civic apathy. On the other hand, if you’re on the devout Catholic side of the fence, why waste your breath. If a mason is non-Catholic, it’s no concern of yours whatsoever. If they are, it’s a matter between that person and God and probably their bishop. You must really have bigger fish to fry.

Well Said!

 

[DallasTexas]

I don’t get why so many of you spent 40 pages of comments talking past each other on the subject. If you’re a mason, you’re wasting your time trying to defend the group to devout Catholics. The pope decreed it, they believe it. End of story. It has nothing to do with Freemasonry being singled out for special treatment. If the pope declared watching Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood was a sin or decided Mother Theresa was evil after all, those two would be persona non grata in devout Catholic households, no questions asked.

So the pope doesn’t approve of your organization. So what? He doesn’t approve of how most of the world’s people conduct their business, including probably 80% of Catholics. Apart from the Church, and a few wackjob conspiracy types, most people today see the masons as a morally neutral, old line respectable if quirky fraternal society. Your only threat these days comes from the general rot of social and civic apathy. On the other hand, if you’re on the devout Catholic side of the fence, why waste your breath. If a mason is non-Catholic, it’s no concern of yours whatsoever. If they are, it’s a matter between that person and God and probably their bishop. You must really have bigger fish to fry.

Well Said!

I dido what Gamewell said!

 

[DallasTexas]

What about Opus Dei…let’s not go there eh?

It’s a Cult!.

But sure lets ban Freemasonry (which isn’t a religion and does not have any political motives)

Azaziel,

Thank you for your posting!

Why would you classify Opus Dei as a cult? From what I know about it, it strongly adheres to the teachings of the Church. I would not think that that would merit the cult classification.

I have a high degree of respect for the organization.

Thank you again!

 

[larsendavid]

I agree that freemasons are evil on many levels. The one that upsets me the most. Is as I was looking into info about the poor knights of Christ. I learned that the masons went and made a group in them and named them after the knights. I found a book in the local Catholic book store by regine pernoud about the templars. It is a wonderful book and shows how the true knights of the temple could not have been part of the masons.

 

[DallasTexas]

I agree that freemasons are evil on many levels. The one that upsets me the most. Is as I was looking into info about the poor knights of Christ. I learned that the masons went and made a group in them and named them after the knights. I found a book in the local Catholic book store by regine pernoud about the templars. It is a wonderful book and shows how the true knights of the temple could not have been part of the masons.

LarsenDavid,

Thank you for your post.

I haven’t heard the argument that the Knights Templar were masons. I have heard the argument that it is possible that after the Knights Templar order was disbanded many fugitive knights, who were running for their lives sought refuge with and assistance from operative masons. As the theory goes, the knights and the operative masons form a group or brotherhood that goes on to become the Freemasons as we know them today.

Does the book discuss this at all?

Thank you,

 

[human_being]

Will these Freemasonry threads ever quit. I have yet to see a valid argument that proves that it is nothing but a bunch of garbage and the CC has spoken well and wisely in condemning it. It is simply that and being a member in such brings the penalty of grave sin and excommunication.

It’s not a matter of these threads…I think the last time I dropped in on this one was a year ago or so…and I see Dallas is still at it…he must be working on a freemason merit badge or something.

 

[DallasTexas]

It’s not a matter of these threads…I think the last time I dropped in on this one was a year ago or so…and I see Dallas is still at it…he must be working on a freemason merit badge or something.

Howdy,

Thank you for remembering me human being. It’s nice to feel appreciated.

Honestly, my masonic brothers do not know that I’m posting anything on this site. One of the charges of freemasonry is to not to defend it (freemasonry)–even against those who make false and slanderous allegations about it…

So what I’m doing here would definitely not earn me a merit badge.

Thank you again!

Saludos amigo!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

You know it matters not if freemasonary is an evil, or not. As catholics we are under obligation not to belong. This is all true of many other Christian bodies that along with the Catholic church have banned membership or at the very least strongly discourage. The very percepts of the mason that give it the openness of accepting memebers from any religion are the ones that make it incompatible with christianity. This relativism on who and what God is make it so.

 

[Moro_Rock]

What about Opus Dei…let’s not go there eh?

It’s a Cult!.

But sure lets ban Freemasonry (which isn’t a religion and does not have any political motives)

This thread is entitled non-Catholic religions, this is a non-catholic looking for intelligent dialogue about this subject, no generic put-downs

They wear Religious Gowns and have Worship to some God the Great Architect ?]
Sounds like a religion.
They are sworn to secrecy and have secrets even in their own ranks from One Degree to the next , all the way up to highest Levels where ‘Their God is Satan’
[not revealed to the lower Degrees till they rise in the Ranks ]
They must shield a Brother Mason even if they know he’s a wanted criminal .
They are powerful in the ranks of the police, the judiciary, education , medicine, the media, and the church with their own agenda to bring about little by little the New Secular World Order
The Evangelical Churches have no love for Masonry .