Freemasons

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Thanks

I did not see in that reference the Freemason reference, statement, writing or teaching which is anti catholic. In fact the reference appears to say many Freemasons consider themselves catholic. I looked on some Freemason sites but found no anti catholic documentation there either. I am amazed if this organization exists to be anti-catholic they appear not to know it!!!

The Pope’s encyclical is correct as is the opinion on the referenced site that following Freemasonry endangers one to not follow Rome, however that is Protestantism, not evil.
**
Julianna is still correct**
 
Thanks

I did not see in that reference the Freemason reference, statement, writing or teaching which is anti catholic. In fact the reference appears to say many Freemasons consider themselves catholic. I looked on some Freemason sites but found no anti catholic documentation there either. I am amazed if this organization exists to be anti-catholic they appear not to know it!!!

The Pope’s encyclical is correct as is the opinion on the referenced site that following Freemasonry endangers one to not follow Rome, however that is Protestantism, not evil.

Julianna is still correct
[Clement XII (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/04030a.htm)* accurately indicates the principal reasons why Masonic associations from the Catholic, [Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/03712a.htm), moral, political, and social points of view, should be condemned. These reasons are: *
  • *The peculiar, “unsectarian” (in truth, anti-Catholic and anti-Christian) [naturalistic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/10713a.htm) character of Freemasonry, by which theoretically and practically it undermines the Catholic and [Christian (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/03712a.htm) faith, first in its members and through them in the rest of society, creating [religious indifferentism (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/07759a.htm) and contempt for orthodoxy and ecclesiastical authority. *
  • *The inscrutable secrecy and fallacious ever-changing disguise of the Masonic association and of its “work”, by which “men of this sort break as thieves into the house and like foxes endeavour to root up the vineyard”, “perverting the hearts of the simple”, ruining their spiritual and temporal welfare. *
  • *The [oaths (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/11176a.htm) of secrecy and of fidelity to Masonry and Masonic work, which cannot be justified in their scope, their object, or their form, and cannot, therefore, induce any obligation. The oaths are condemnable, because the scope and object of Masonry are “wicked” and condemnable, and the candidate in most cases is ignorant of the import or extent of the obligation which he takes upon himself. Moreover the ritualistic and doctrinal “secrets” which are the principal object of the obligation, according to the highest Masonic authorities, are either trifles or no longer exist. [212] In either case the oath is a condemnable abuse. Even the Masonic modes of recognition, which are represented as the principal and only essential “secret” of Masonry, are published in many printed books. Hence the real “secrets” of Masonry, if such there be, could only be political or anti-religious conspiracies like the plots of the Grand Lodges in Latin countries. But such secrets, condemned, at least theoretically, by Anglo-American Masons themselves, would render the oath or obligation only the more immoral and therefore null and void. Thus in every respect the Masonic oaths are not only sacrilegious but also an abuse contrary to public order which requires that solemn oaths and obligations as the principal means to maintain veracity and faithfulness in the State and in human society, should not be vilified or caricatured. In Masonry the oath is further degraded by its form which includes the most atrocious penalties, for the “violation of obligations” which do not even exist; a “violation” which, in truth may be and in many cases is an imperative duty. *
  • *The danger which such societies involve for the security and “tranquility of the State” and for “the spiritual health of souls”, and consequently their incompatibility with civil and canonical law. For even admitting that some Masonic associations pursued for themselves no purposes contrary to religion and to public order, they would be nevertheless contrary to public order, because by their very existence as [secret societies (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/14071b.htm) based on the Masonic principles, they encourage and promote the foundation of other really dangerous [secret societies (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/cathen/14071b.htm) and render difficult, if not impossible, efficacious action of the civil and ecclesiastical authorities against them. *
    newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm#VIII
Masonry is a parallel religion to Christianity. The states, “Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward and punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiative and burial rites” (vol. 6, p. 137).
 
The Pope’s encyclical is correct as is the opinion on the referenced site that following Freemasonry endangers one to not follow Rome, however that is Protestantism, not evil.
**
Julianna is still correct**
 
Then how could my husbands negativeism from the freemasons, through demolay, towards the ccand the clergy have lasted over 40 years? What he heard back when he was a teenager has stuck with him and all the trying to wash it out of his mind has not helped.

It is taking a lot of prayer and confession on my part and intercessory from my priest and if this isn’t a kind of demon poccesion I don’t want to come across a worse in my life time what I have left because it has been a hell on earth!

I do love my husband and I know God is honoring that and now that I returned as a cradel revert and if I am faithfull God has something to work with. I don’t hate the freemasons but it did become a mind set to my husband. Now my godfather and I and my priest are talking about having my marriage blessed which is another new ball game and only through the Love of Jesus is this working and I see I really do now see the barriers and prjudice coming down and his heart is starting to get a little tender and softer to me and really to the world and authority. But these walls are like the East wall in Germany
was, tall and exstremely thick. Now you can’t tell me this is just protestinism, that is a different ism and I don’t know if you can call that an ism and just because masons don’t have an ism on the end doesn’t mean it is any less dangerous than wicca?

I have to agree that we must be very cautioous and I do speak as one going through the fruits of this E… thanks dessert
 
Thanks

I did not see in that reference the Freemason reference, statement, writing or teaching which is anti catholic. In fact the reference appears to say many Freemasons consider themselves catholic. I looked on some Freemason sites but found no anti catholic documentation there either. I am amazed if this organization exists to be anti-catholic they appear not to know it!!!

The Pope’s encyclical is correct as is the opinion on the referenced site that following Freemasonry endangers one to not follow Rome, however that is Protestantism, not evil.
**
Julianna is still correct**
OTC, even within Protestantism there is the recognition that Freemasonry is at odds with Christianity as a whole:

iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0168a.html
 
Karin, your references in blue came up pages cannot be found jusst to let you know and I printed some pages from the encyclo. but there are 47 so only printed enough to get the drift. So I’m sure if they are giving us 47 pages on this it is viable to our life to know the truth. dessert
 
Karin, your references in blue came up pages cannot be found jusst to let you know and I printed some pages from the encyclo. but there are 47 so only printed enough to get the drift. So I’m sure if they are giving us 47 pages on this it is viable to our life to know the truth. dessert
sorry…it is a link from the
newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm#VIII
with internal links to certain things…sorry I guess you can go to the main link (above) and read the article, which is only 1 page long, and click the links from there
 
Thanks

I can not take any of this seriously, any time the extremists are the source or the Pope’s encyclical has to be read between the lines or embellished, then may be the assertion is not correct. When I read what Mason say and write, when we look at what Masons do and compare it to what others say about Masons, well the facts are the facts. If some one can present a reasonable source I’ll read it but save the hate mongering, hate is hate.
 
Thanks

I can not take any of this seriously, any time the extremists are the source or the Pope’s encyclical has to be read between the lines or embellished, then may be the assertion is not correct. When I read what Mason say and write, when we look at what Masons do and compare it to what others say about Masons, well the facts are the facts. If some one can present a reasonable source I’ll read it but save the hate mongering, hate is hate.
Texas Roofer…you got it!👍
 
Sheesh. Some “hate-mongering” from This Rock, (catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9306qq.asp)

*Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Freemasonry teaches a naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion.

Masonry is a parallel religion to Christianity
. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states, “Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward or punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiation and burial rites” (vol. 6, p. 137).

Masonry is also a secret society. Its initiates subscribe to secret blood oaths that are contrary to Christian morals. The prospective Mason swears that if he ever reveals the secrets of Masonry - secrets which are trivial and already well-known - he wills to be subject to self-mutilation or to gruesome execution. (Most Masons, admittedly, never would dream of carrying out these punishments on themselves or on an errant member).

Historically, one of Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity. (Those interested in joining a men’s club should consider the Knights of Columbus instead.)

***The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who become Freemasons. *** The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374).

Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church’s prohibition of Freemasonry had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in Origins 13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450.*

The above mentioned piece of hate-mongering from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reads as follows: (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMASN1.HTM)

*CLARIFICATION CONCERNING STATUS OF CATHOLICS BECOMING FREEMASONS
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith​

On 19 July 1974 this Congregation wrote to some Episcopal Conferences a private letter concerning the interpretation of can 2335 of the Code of Canon Law which forbids Catholics, under the penalty of excommunication, to enroll in Masonic or other similar associations.

Since the said letter has become public and has given rise to erroneous and tendentious interpretations, this Congregation, without prejudice to the eventual norms of the new Code, issues the following confirmation and clarification:
  1. the present canonical discipline remains in full force and has not been modified in any way;
  2. consequently, neither the excommunication nor the other penalties envisaged have been abrogated;
  3. what was said in the aforesaid letter as regards the interpretation to be given to the canon in question should be understood—as the Congregation intended—merely as a reminder of the general principles of interpretation of penal laws for the solution of the cases of individual persons which may be submitted to the judgment of ordinaries. It was not, however, the intention of the Congregation to permit Episcopal Conferences to issue public pronouncements by way of a judgment of a general character on the nature of Masonic associations, which would imply a derogation from the aforesaid norms.
Rome, from the Office of the S. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 17 February 1981.*

And finally, a rash of benighted, papal hate mongerers and their documents on the topic:

Clement XII In Eminenti, const. 24 Apr. 1738

Benedict XIV Providas, const. 18 May 1751

Pius VII Ecclesiam a Jesu Christo, const. 13 Sept. 1821

Leo XII Quo Graviora, const. 13 Mar. 1825

Pius VIII Traditi Humilitati, encyc. 24 May 1829

Gregory XVI Mirari Vos, encyc. 15 Aug. 1832

Pius IX Qui Pluribus, encyc. 9 Nov. 1846

Leo XIII Humanum Genus, encyc. 20 Apr. 1884

Leo XIII Dall’ Alto Dell’ Opostolico, Seggio, encyc.

Leo XIII Inimica Vos, encyc. 8 Dec. 1892,.

Leo XIII Custodi Di Quella Fede, encyc. 8 Dec. 1892

[SIGN] I submit my judgement to that of the Holy See[/SIGN]
 
I am sure you have the best intents however the current post adds nothing. If you could document the “–Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church” that would be useful ( not you know someone who said it, but that it is true)

btw- if you could explain how spending money on go carts and children will achieve that goal that would be interesting too
 
I am sure you have the best intents however the current post adds nothing. If you could document the “–Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church” that would be useful ( not you know someone who said it, but that it is true)

btw- if you could explain how spending money on go carts and children will achieve that goal that would be interesting too
The witness of the events in Portugal and Mexico when Freemasonry attacked the life of the Church in those countries should be sufficient for any Catholic to at least acknowledge that Freemasonry historically hasn’t had a particularly benevolent attitude - to say the least - towards Catholicism.

fatima.org/essentials/facts/histcontext.asp

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=39388

Further, the encyclicals of Pope Pius XI regarding the persecution of the Church in the Mexico of his time - and continuing, if not as violently, into our own - did not arise out of an ignorance of the situation “on the ground”.

catholicculture.org/docs/…fm?recnum=4935

catholicculture.org/docs/…fm?recnum=4943

catholicculture.org/docs/…fm?recnum=4949
 
I am sure you have the best intents however the current post adds nothing. If you could document the “–Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church” that would be useful ( not you know someone who said it, but that it is true)

btw- if you could explain how spending money on go carts and children will achieve that goal that would be interesting too
All of the information you have been given is not the personal opinions of the posters, it is the teaching of the church. Do you not understand the teaching, or after reading all of the information that has been provided to you, are you in disagreement with the church?

This is what it basically comes down to, don’t you think? You either agree or disagree with the church, everything else is just your opinion.
 
I 'll take the fact neither poster actually can post anything other than an authors opinion as more evidence extremist views are the issue. Some more interesting ideas posted though. So, Do the Mason have an Army? The poster claims they forcibly took control of Mexico and Portugal. Do they still control Mexico and Portugal?
I am sure you have the best intents however the current post adds nothing. If you could document the "–Masonry’s primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church" that would be useful ( not you know someone who said it, but that it is true)

btw- if you could explain how spending money on go carts and children will achieve that goal that would be interesting too
I like the idea anyone who follows the actual Pope’s writing is against the Catholic Church! Same for the Catholic Canons. The Pope and Canons say Catholic are not to join the Masons the Posters claim the Masons have a primary objective to destroy the Catholic Church, yet with all the Mason websites and books not a stitch of evidence has been shown.:tsktsk:
 
I 'll take the fact neither poster actually can post anything other than an authors opinion as more evidence extremist views are the issue. Some more interesting ideas posted though. So, Do the Mason have an Army? The poster claims they forcibly took control of Mexico and Portugal. Do they still control Mexico and Portugal?

I like the idea anyone who follows the actual Pope’s writing is against the Catholic Church! Same for the Catholic Canons. The Pope and Canons say Catholic are not to join the Masons the Posters claim the Masons have a primary objective to destroy the Catholic Church, yet with all the Mason websites and books not a stitch of evidence has been shown.:tsktsk:
so your saying that the Church, POpe, Cannons are all wrong?
 
I like the idea anyone who follows the actual Pope’s writing is against the Catholic Church! Same for the Catholic Canons. The Pope and Canons say Catholic are not to join the Masons the Posters claim the Masons have a primary objective to destroy the Catholic Church, yet with all the Mason websites and books not a stitch of evidence has been shown.
They persecuted the Church in Portugal and Mexico when they took control over those governments. Why is that not enough evidence for you?:tsktsk:
 
IMHO…IMHO…I find it difficult to believe that the Catholic Church could be underminded by the freemasons. Again, my opinion.
Why? They helped to take away the Papal States from the Pope when the Italian nation was forming. They were a threat then, and they are a threat today.
 
so your saying that the Church, POpe, Cannons are all wrong?
when one writes “I like the idea…” that means some one else has proposed the idea. The comment is sarcastic see Catholics follow the Pope and the Canons. Extremist say the Pope’s writing must be interpreted for you either we are not smart enough or the Pope was not. Either way only the extremists is smart enough to know what the Pope*** intended ***to write. Unless you’re into conspiracy theories then the Pope’s writing is in code, but the extremist also knows code :whacky:
 
when one writes “I like the idea…” that means some one else has proposed the idea. The comment is sarcastic see Catholics follow the Pope and the Canons. Extremist say the Pope’s writing must be interpreted for you either we are not smart enough or the Pope was not. Either way only the extremists is smart enough to know what the Pope*** intended ***to write. Unless you’re into conspiracy theories then the Pope’s writing is in code, but the extremist also knows code :whacky:
HUH???:confused:
I think I need to go to bed and get a good nights sleep…things are just not making sense to me tonight…😦
 
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