Freemasons

[Texas_Roofer]

They persecuted the Church in Portugal and Mexico when they took control over those governments. Why is that not enough evidence for you?:tsktsk:

Why? They helped to take away the Papal States from the Pope when the Italian nation was forming. They were a threat then, and they are a threat today.

Just document it, that is all that has ever been asked yet it is not done. Now we are told they run 3 countries!!! Do they have 3 armies? 6? 9? 99?? where are these military forces, why do we never hear of them? How do they have money to do that and the go carts and the kids?

 

[Julianna]

Why? They helped to take away the Papal States from the Pope when the Italian nation was forming. They were a threat then, and they are a threat today.

How long ago was that? Is the Catholic Church still around? yes it is. According to some of the extreme catholics on this board, not only is it doing well, vocations are up all over the place…there is a push to go exclusively back to the TLM everywhere…everything is just ducky. All is well, yet the guys who wear funny hats and drive funny cars are huge threat against the church, who could buy and sell the freemasons
10X over and still have enough to feed a third world country.

Come on…snap out of it!

The big threat to the Catholic Church IMHO are two things…

1. turn on TBN and take a look at the MEGA evang/fundy churches and check out how many ministries they have all over the world. They are evangelizing Mexico, South America and South East Asia.
2. Rome’s disconnect with American Catholics, makes reason #1 attractive

 

[marci]

HUH???
I think I need to go to bed and get a good nights sleep…things are just not making sense to me tonight…

Oh, mommyof4, I’m so glad it’s not just me. Maybe I should call it a night as well.

 

[marci]

How long ago was that? Is the Catholic Church still around? yes it is. According to some of the extreme catholics on this board, not only is it doing well, vocations are up all over the place…there is a push to go exclusively back to the TLM everywhere…everything is just ducky. All is well, yet the guys who wear funny hats and drive funny cars are huge threat against the church, who could buy and sell the freemasons
10X over and still have enough to feed a third world country.

Come on…snap out of it!

The big threat to the Catholic Church IMHO are two things…

1. turn on TBN and take a look at the MEGA evang/fundy churches and check out how many ministries they have all over the world. They are evangelizing Mexico, South America and South East Asia.
2. Rome’s disconnect with American Catholics, makes reason #1 attractive

Have a little anger toward the catholic hierarchy do we? Now it’s all starting to make sense. The reason you never comment when confronted with church teaching may be because you don’t give a hoot about church teaching on this matter.

Afterall, the church is nothing but a wealthy, corrupt organization of aged men, who obviously are not as charitable as the freemasons, and are out of touch with us Americans, right?.

And since when does being in union with Rome make one an extremist?

I have never felt more like I was :banghead: than I have on this thread

 

[Stu]

1. Rome’s disconnect with American Catholics, makes reason #1 attractive

Should read, “American Catholics disconnect with Rome.” *Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia.

*As for #1, the mega-churches with their “prosperity gospel” will eventually cave in on themselves.

Masons can be swell people and do good things however their beliefs, including religious indifferentalism make them incompatible with the Catholic faith. I’ll take Christ’s Church.

 

[Julianna]

Should read, “American Catholics disconnect with Rome.” *Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia.

*As for #1, the mega-churches with their “prosperity gospel” will eventually cave in on themselves.

Masons can be swell people and do good things however their beliefs, including religious indifferentalism make them incompatible with the Catholic faith. I’ll take Christ’s Church.

Stu…I agree…that is why I listed the reason. Sure they will cave eventually…and yes, I should have reversed it…American Catholics are at a disconnect with Rome because the church has morphed over the last 2000 yrs. I guess I was looking for a word…and you found it for me “incompatible” is the word.

Marci,
It must be the American Woman in me…I will question, I will ask, I will look within…I don’t follow 3 steps behind my husband…I can thnk for myself. I don’t go looking for people who disagree with me and report them to the priest, bishop, pope. I don’t jump down peoples throats and use the word FORBIDDEN as commonly as the word “the”.

You misread my intent…I find it difficult to believe that the Catholic Church with it’s vast influence is afraid of men in funny hats. Sounds like the Cold War. As for the men thing…aren’t freemasons a “men” only organization? Don’t paint me with a “feminist” brush. Some people prefer to have every waking hour of their lives consumed with dogma, doctrine, who to vote for, where to shop, what kind of coffee to buy, to stay away from, what organizations are compatible to join, which are not…I guess I’ve lived under Holy Spirit guidance for so long, I just look within and the Holy Spirit is there to work through me. Change happens from within to out, not the other way around.

If there were a freemason in my church, I would MMOB. Then again, I’m not there looking for freemasons.

 

[thistle]

Just document it, that is all that has ever been asked yet it is not done. Now we are told they run 3 countries!!! Do they have 3 armies? 6? 9? 99?? where are these military forces, why do we never hear of them? How do they have money to do that and the go carts and the kids?

I must be missing something so I have to ask these questions.

Why are you so vigorously defending the Freemasons against the Catholic Church instead of the other way round. Your profile says you are Catholic.

Are you a Freemason?

Do you believe and accept the teaching of the Church that you CANNOT be a Catholic and a Freemason otherwise you put yourself into a state of mortal sin (possibly exposing yourself to excommunication)?

 

[ccfbob]

Julianna,

Personal Family experience:

My Grandfather was a US Customs Inspector, and in 1936, during the depression, they were faced with a 25% job cut.

One day while in his boses office, he found the list of “25%”. Only Jews, Catholics and Blacks were on that list. The boss was a Mason and none of his cronies were on the list, nor any Protestants.

My Grandfather organized a group through the American Legion as sort of a union, they went to Court and negotiated a 25% pay cut for all. If those folks lost their jobs in the middle of the depression, they might not have gotten rehired.

As it turns out, the original pay was then reinstated in 6 mos. due to this union groups efforts.

Way to go Grand Pop Joe! :tiphat:
Boo Masons :tsktsk:

 

[Moneo]

1. Rome’s disconnect with American Catholics, makes reason #1 attractive

Since this is slightly off-topic here, I won’t dwell on it and if anyone takes offense to it I’m sorry, but as a Catholic, I find the above quote just a little offensive myself.

Rome does not need to connect with American Catholics (whatever the heck an “American Catholic” is anyway) …

Catholics in the U.S. (which is I’m sure what you really meant to say, since America is much, much bigger than the U.S. and most of her Catholics do not live there) need to connect with Rome … or, more precisely, the magisterium of the Church.

If you read the final encyclical on the above list carefully, you will see some of your demanded “specific examples” of Masonry’s attacks on the Catholic Church very clearly listed.

I have to be out the door in 20 minutes, so I’ll leave it there for now. Perhaps I will have time later to post some more later, though I really don’t see what difference it will make …

 

[Ace86]

Just document it, that is all that has ever been asked yet it is not done. Now we are told they run 3 countries!!! Do they have 3 armies? 6? 9? 99?? where are these military forces, why do we never hear of them? How do they have money to do that and the go carts and the kids?

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1243

The history of Freemasonry has proven its anti-Catholic nature. In the United States, one of the leaders of Freemasonry, General Albert Pike (d. 1891) referred to the papacy as “a deadly, treacherous enemy,” and wrote, “The papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer and curse of humanity, the most shameless imposture, in its pretense to spiritual power of all ages.” In France, in 1877, and in Portugal in 1910, Freemasons took control of the government for a time and enacted laws to restrict the activities of the Church, particularly in education. In Latin America, the Freemasons have expressed anti-Church and anti-clerical sentiment.

 

[Ace86]

If there were a freemason in my church, I would MMOB. Then again, I’m not there looking for freemasons.

Okay, Julianna. Don’t go looking for them. I don’t think anyone on this board has done that. And I still don’t see what your problem is. The op originally said that he reported what he knew to his pastor. It was the right thing to do. It wasn’t a witch burning, so chill out.

 

[FCEGM]

HUH???
I think I need to go to bed and get a good nights sleep…things are just not making sense to me tonight…

It doesn’t make any sense at mid-day either.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

"other:

so your saying that the Church, POpe, Cannons are all wrong?

when one writes “I like the idea…” that means some one else has proposed the idea. The comment is sarcastic see Catholics follow the Pope and the Canons. Extremist say the Pope’s writing must be interpreted for you either we are not smart enough or the Pope was not. Either way only the extremists is smart enough to know what the Pope*** intended ***to write. Unless you’re into conspiracy theories then the Pope’s writing is in code, but the extremist also knows code :whacky:

other:

HUH???
I think I need to go to bed and get a good nights sleep…things are just not making sense to me tonight…

other:

It doesn’t make any sense at mid-day either.

Sorry for any confusion, how about we try it this way :

*Freemasonry’s singular purpose is to make good men better and its bonds of friendship, compassion and brotherly love have survived even the most divisive political, military and religious conflicts through the centuries. Freemasonry is neither a forum nor a place of worship. It is not a religion nor does it teach a religious philosophy. For nearly three hundred years it has attracted men of high moral character who support the tenets of temperance, fortitude, prudence and justice.

We’re often asked, “What do Freemasons believe?” The answer is quite simple: essentially the same things that teachers, bus drivers, Rotarians, or anyone else believes. There is no ‘requirement’ that all Masons believe certain things except insofar as good behavior dictates*. masonicinfo.com/primer.htm Main Web site masonicinfo.com/ *
Another site which discusses the issue common with the thread. skepdic.com/freemasons.html

That is the words of Masons not me, you, or the Pope. Other than many Masons disagreeing with the Pope concern whether or not Free Masons are a religion, the rest of the issues are unsubstantiated. Hey, but in the absence of facts you can use personal attacks.

• did New Advent list that also

 

[Julianna]

Okay, Julianna. Don’t go looking for them. I don’t think anyone on this board has done that. And I still don’t see what your problem is. The op originally said that he reported what he knew to his pastor. It was the right thing to do. It wasn’t a witch burning, so chill out.

You know Ace…had to think about that one. It really isn’t the freemasons at all. It is anyone who sits in the pew each Sunday or whenever they go to mass, and calculates the following.

Oooooooooo,

I saw a freemason license tag on a car, I’m going to report that person.
I saw teenagers wearing jeans to mass, I’m going to report that.
Woman are not wearing headcoverings, I’m going to report that.
I saw a woman on the altar and she didn’t have a dust rag, I’m going to report that.
I’ve been going to mass for 10 yrs now, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith still only have 1 child and they got married the same year as Mr. & Mrs. Jones and they have 7 children, I wonder if they are contracepting, I’m going to report that.
Too many Haugen-Haas songs are being sung by the choir, I’m going to report that.
The priest seems to effeminate mannerisms, I’m going to report that.
Altar girls , I’m going to report that
I was at the mall the other day and I saw John and Suzy Smith’s daughter working at Starbucks, I’m going to report that.
My wife and went to a barbq at the Jones’ last Saturday, and I saw a DVD on the entertainment center, and it was the DaVinci Code, I’m going to report that.

Whew!!! Why do we go to mass? Geez, I forget.

You find most if not all examples of the 10 items I have written, right here on these boards.

 

[Karin]

Oh silly us…let us ignore the GRIM, the Bishops, the POPE, the Magestirum etc.
Let all Catholics do what they want, join whatever groups they want, believe what they want and to heck with the Church’s teachings & beleifs~

 

[Texas_Roofer]

other:

Oh silly us…let us ignore the GRIM, the Bishops, the POPE, the Magestirum etc.
Let all Catholics do what they want, join whatever groups they want, believe what they want and to heck with the Church’s teachings & beleifs~

“–Bishops, the POPE, the Magestirum etc” actually that is what I am following so what is the problem?

oh, it is I refuse to participate in hate, AND follow extreme views based on unsubstantiated statements, that is where the problem is

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…I saw a freemason license tag on a car, I’m going to report that person.
I saw teenagers wearing jeans to mass, I’m going to report that.
Woman are not wearing headcoverings, I’m going to report that.
I saw a woman on the altar and she didn’t have a dust rag, I’m going to report that.
I’ve been going to mass for 10 yrs now, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith still only have 1 child and they got married the same year as Mr. & Mrs. Jones and they have 7 children, I wonder if they are contracepting, I’m going to report that.
Too many Haugen-Haas songs are being sung by the choir, I’m going to report that.
The priest seems to effeminate mannerisms, I’m going to report that.
Altar girls , I’m going to report that
I was at the mall the other day and I saw John and Suzy Smith’s daughter working at Starbucks, I’m going to report that.
My wife and went to a barbq at the Jones’ last Saturday, and I saw a DVD on the entertainment center, and it was the DaVinci Code, I’m going to report that…

I know a few Deacons very well and you would be suprised at how common this is! and every homily gets hate mail! I often feel sorry for the Priests given their work loads in this area.

 

[Ace86]

You know Ace…had to think about that one. It really isn’t the freemasons at all. It is anyone who sits in the pew each Sunday or whenever they go to mass, and calculates the following.

Oooooooooo,

I saw a freemason license tag on a car, I’m going to report that person.
I saw teenagers wearing jeans to mass, I’m going to report that.
Woman are not wearing headcoverings, I’m going to report that.
I saw a woman on the altar and she didn’t have a dust rag, I’m going to report that.
I’ve been going to mass for 10 yrs now, and Mr. and Mrs. Smith still only have 1 child and they got married the same year as Mr. & Mrs. Jones and they have 7 children, I wonder if they are contracepting, I’m going to report that.
Too many Haugen-Haas songs are being sung by the choir, I’m going to report that.
The priest seems to effeminate mannerisms, I’m going to report that.
Altar girls , I’m going to report that
I was at the mall the other day and I saw John and Suzy Smith’s daughter working at Starbucks, I’m going to report that.
My wife and went to a barbq at the Jones’ last Saturday, and I saw a DVD on the entertainment center, and it was the DaVinci Code, I’m going to report that.

Whew!!! Why do we go to mass? Geez, I forget.

You find most if not all examples of the 10 items I have written, right here on these boards.

You’re equivocating. Of all the examples you pointed out, the only one which the Church teaches that concerns mortal (deadly) sin is the one concerning freemasonry. The other examples are ridiculous. And they don’t change the fact that joining a masonic organization puts one in a state of mortal sin. Period.

 

[marci]

“–Bishops, the POPE, the Magestirum etc” actually that is what I am following so what is the problem?

oh, it is I refuse to participate in hate, AND follow extreme views based on unsubstantiated statements, that is where the problem is

When has anyone on this thread ever said anything so uncharitable that you would label it “hate”.

All we have done is state the church’s teaching on this matter. You have been given sitations from the CCC, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Pope Clement XII, Pope Leo XIII and many other sources of church teaching about freemasonry. If you are in union with the above, then what are you arguing about?

 

[marci]

That is the words of Masons not me, you, or the Pope. Other than many Masons disagreeing with the Pope concern whether or not Free Masons are a religion, the rest of the issues are unsubstantiated. Hey, but in the absence of facts you can use personal attacks.