Freemasons

[dessert]

Thank you thistle for all that info and I do believe that they are a big organization with lots of money behind them and are totally aginst Jesus the cc and we do have shriners in our city but it is nice to know more on what is happening and all the details and I wish this thread would end too. dessert

 

[Seatuck]

may I recommend the following:

amazon.com/Masonry-Unmasked-Insiders-Reveals-Secrets/dp/1592762271/sr=1-1/qid=1167914445/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5321682-4563948?ie=UTF8&s=books

Mr Salza is a former Free Mason. He says that free masons teach a version of resurrection devoid of Christ. That gets to be a problem for anybody who takes almost any form of Christianity at all seriously. I’ll take his word for it. I’ve read another of his books and it was reasonably good.

Yes , that’s why I recommended it and his webpage.

For instance look at this paragraph on Shriners. Seems completely incompatible with Catholicism to me.

Who are the Shriners?
The Shriners are an organization of 32nd degree or York Rite Masons who are best known for their red fezzes, little motor cars and circus parades. The Shrine is also known for its hospitals and other philanthropic activities. Masons call the Shrine the “playground of Freemasonry.” Most of the public is unaware of the fact that all Shriners are Master Masons (but not all Masons are Shriners).
Like the previous Masonic degrees, candidates for the Shrine are initiated with a solemn religious ceremony at the local Mosque (the Islamic gathering place of the Shrine). All candidates, including Christians, must swear an oath to Allah on the Koran declaring that they would be worthy of having their eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-inch blade, their feet flayed, and forced to walk the hot sands of the sterile shores of the Red Sea, where the flaming sun shall strike them with a livid plague, rather than to violate their Shriner Masonic oath.

 

[BaldwinIV]

Ultimately, we really don’t know what the Freemasons are up to, or what they are teaching. After all, they take oaths of secrecy that can hide those things from us. If they are not hiding anything, then why are they taking oaths of secrecy

Great question. I would ask the Vatican the same thing…

Crimen sollicitationis - in Latin
***
Crimen Sollicitationis*** - English

This document was drawn up up by Cardinal Alfred Ottaviani and approved by Pope John XXIII. It instructs bishops on how to handle cases in which a priest is sexually involved with an animal, child, or man.

The document calls for such cases to be handled in secret, and extends that secrecy to the document itself. The document imposes secrecy even upon victims of sexual abuse. Extreme penalties for violations of secrecy, including excommunication are imposed.

 

[Sixtus]

In our church we have a Eucharistic Minister, a Reader and in the next parish an altar server and a collector, and in the next parish still, the Sacristan are ALL freemasons.

They have all asked their respective PP’s who have told them the rules have been relaxed. I know of one who was advised by an Arch-Bishop that the Church takes a more liberal attitude these days.

I asked the Sacristan why not only was he a freemason but was active in trying to recruit fellow Catholics. He said he believed that Catholicism should penetrate every area of social life. If they do not take Catholicism and Christ to them, who else will.

Food for thought

 

[thistle]

In our church we have a Eucharistic Minister, a Reader and in the next parish an altar server and a collector, and in the next parish still, the Sacristan are ALL freemasons.

They have all asked their respective PP’s who have told them the rules have been relaxed. I know of one who was advised by an Arch-Bishop that the Church takes a more liberal attitude these days.

I asked the Sacristan why not only was he a freemason but was active in trying to recruit fellow Catholics. He said he believed that Catholicism should penetrate every area of social life. If they do not take Catholicism and Christ to them, who else will.

Food for thought

I know it sounds judgemental but people like that should be reprimanded, informed that what they are doing is a grave sin, give them the chance to repent and if they refuse they should be ex-communicated.

 

[Sixtus]

give them the chance to repent and if they refuse they should be ex-communicated.

Judge not and you shall not be judged for there will be judgment without mercy for those who have not been merciful themselves.

Personally, it does not bother me one iota what Catholics do or don’t do. If they can justify it with their conscience then they are pure before God.

It is not for me to judge, much less so, judge otherwise.

In this forum I read somewhere that ‘belief’ often gets in the way of ‘truth’ that folk hang onto their beliefs at the expense of discovering the truth because to them ‘belief’ is greater than truth. That they will readily and happily deceive themselves in the name of ‘belief’.

I thought that response was actually quite abserd. But seeing the judgemental attitudes towards what folk obviously do not know anything about, unless they have read about it, really does support the criticism that 'some put blind belief above quest for finding out the truth.

I know little about freemasonry. I do not judge my brother who is a freemason. Nor do I call him evil or ex-comunicant

 

[thistle]

Judge not and you shall not be judged for there will be judgment without mercy for those who have not been merciful themselves.

Personally, it does not bother me one iota what Catholics do or don’t do. If they can justify it with their conscience then they are pure before God.

It is not for me to judge, much less so, judge otherwise.

In this forum I read somewhere that ‘belief’ often gets in the way of ‘truth’ that folk hang onto their beliefs at the expense of discovering the truth because to them ‘belief’ is greater than truth. That they will readily and happily deceive themselves in the name of ‘belief’.

I thought that response was actually quite abserd. But seeing the judgemental attitudes towards what folk obviously do not know anything about, unless they have read about it, really does support the criticism that 'some put blind belief above quest for finding out the truth.

I know little about freemasonry. I do not judge my brother who is a freemason. Nor do I call him evil or ex-comunicant

Obviously you haven’t read through this thread.
Freemasonry is EVIL and is incompatible with the Catholic Faith. You cannot be a Catholic and a Freemason. If you become a Freemason you put yourself in a state of mortal sin.
This is the teaching of the Church which you must accept.
You should care very much what other Catholics do as they endanger their own immortal souls by becoming a Freemason and the souls of any others they encourage to join the Freemasons.
The Church calls Freemasonry EVIL. I didn’t make that up. Read the encyclicals.

 

[Sixtus]

Texas Roofer
Re: Freemasons
Quote:Originally Posted by thistle
Not apples and oranges.

Evil is the common denominator. Drug cartels and murderers destroy people and families. Freemasons intent is to destroy the Church and its members.

please document

Well said. Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy

JC

 

[Sixtus]

reemasonry is EVIL and is incompatible with the Catholic Faith. You cannot be a Catholic and a Freemason. If you become a Freemason you put yourself in a state of mortal sin.
This is the teaching of the Church which you must accept.

Adultery is EVIL and is imcompatible with the Catholic Faith. You cannot be a Catholic and an Adulterer. If you become an adulterer you put yourself in a state of motal sin.

This is the teaching of the Church which you must accept.

Thank God the Church is run by the clergy and not the laity.

How many people have escaped abusive marriages for which they do not have grounds or for whom it would be unmerciful to seek an annulment [where the abusive partner is mentally ill but consider themselves to be normal and good spouses].

The Church teaches that adultery is wrong-black and white. But by the mercy of God, often takes a more understanding response to those who have escaped abuse to form new relationships without first having an annulment.

Thank God for the wisdom of the clergy.

Note: I have not gone off topic. Can you see the connection!

 

[Sixtus]

My Sacristan friend who is a freemason has told me his conscience is clear.but 'the first priest or bishop who tells him that he is committing a mortal sin by being a freemason, he will resign immediately and repent.

He values his faith above all else. For him, he values his faith more than his life. He is the sort, the martyrs are made of.

He has been asked by very devout members of the congregation where he worshps, that he ought consider the religious life as he is so devout and reads the word of God with such authority.

He is adament that he has asked the clergy and they have told him that the church takes a more liberal view these days now that the church does not see freemasonry as a rival to the Church or an alternative religion. The main objection he says is that it is an exclusive club, but he told me anyone can become a freemason, male or female, all you have to do is apply. It is not the exclusive club it once was.

He says 'they are not a secret society as they publish all there is to know about freemasonry.

I asked him again and he reiterated what he said 'the first, the very first priest or bishop who tells him he is in mortal sin, he will instantly resign and repent No priest or bishop has told him that.

Who am I to say other wise!

 

[Karin]

My Sacristan friend who is a freemason has told me his conscience is clear.but 'the first priest or bishop who tells him that he is committing a mortal sin by being a freemason, he will resign immediately and repent.

He values his faith above all else. For him, he values his faith more than his life. He is the sort, the martyrs are made of.

He has been asked by very devout members of the congregation where he worshps, that he ought consider the religious life as he is so devout and reads the word of God with such authority.

He is adament that he has asked the clergy and they have told him that the church takes a more liberal view these days now that the church does not see freemasonry as a rival to the Church or an alternative religion. The main objection he says is that it is an exclusive club, but he told me anyone can become a freemason, male or female, all you have to do is apply. It is not the exclusive club it once was.

He says 'they are not a secret society as they publish all there is to know about freemasonry.

I asked him again and he reiterated what he said 'the first, the very first priest or bishop who tells him he is in mortal sin, he will instantly resign and repent No priest or bishop has told him that.

Who am I to say other wise!

your friend is feeding oyu a load of bull,sorry to say…
woman can not or never have been able to join the FreeMasons, it is a secret society (they will not share with you all of the ceremonies or practicies…the list goes on and on…if he wants to really know what the Church thinks about the Freemasons may I suggest that he read Church documents (several which are posted or linked to on this thread) about it…as we all know not all Priests know what they are talking about

 

[mozart-250]

Non-Catholic butting in becuz he is experienced second-hand in free masonry; his father and grandfather having been one…

There are a few issues in play…

(1) Whether a Christian in general or a Catholic in specific should be a mason.

I am in agreement with Catholicism on this one for several reasons which I will not enumerate here. Furthermore, Catholicism tells you not to be freemasons, and for you that should be sufficient.

(2) Why one should not be a mason and whether freemasonry is an anti-Catholic organization.

Reality check. If you area is anything like mine, your local freemason lodge is likely to be 90% middle to upper-middle class white males over 50 years old from mainline Protestant denominations.

When I was growing up, the freemason lodge was essentially the men’s club of the local Methodist/United Church of Christ fellowships. Harrassing the local Catholic parish was the furthest thing from their mind.

Undue paranoia over your local freemason lodge only makes you look wacky.

(3) The obligations of laity when they observe unorthodox behavior in fellow laity.

I’ll leave this for you to hash out as Catholics; but I will just observe that I feel very uncomfortable of assuming for myself the role of orthodox (practice,belief) policeman over my fellow worshipers. That is why they have clergy and other church leadership. IMHO anyway…

 

[mozart-250]

woman can not or never have been able to join the FreeMasons

Correct, but there is a Masonic organization “Eastern Star” that women do join (my mother was an active member many years).

Growing up they were a combined woman’s club of the local Methodist/United Church of Christ fellowships.

 

[thistle]

My Sacristan friend who is a freemason has told me his conscience is clear.but 'the first priest or bishop who tells him that he is committing a mortal sin by being a freemason, he will resign immediately and repent.
!

Read all of post #123. In case you don’t want to then you can read para 31 below from Humanum Genus by Poep Leo XII

QUOTE
**31…As Our predecessors have many times repeated, let no man think that he may for any reason whatsoever join the masonic sect, if he values his Catholic name and his eternal salvation as he ought to value them. Let no one be deceived by a pretense of honesty. It may seem to some that Freemasons demand nothing that is openly contrary to religion and morality; but, as the whole principle and object of the sect lies in what is vicious and criminal, to join with these men or in any way to help them cannot be lawful. **

UNQUOTE

For those who think the threat of excommunication has been lifted because they cannot see it in the New Canon Code, this is not the case. There is a provision for such a sanction in cases, to be identified locally, where an organisation works against the Faith or the Church (Canon 1374).

Also in 1983 Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith said Masonic membership is a grave sin.

Show these to your friend who is sadly mistaken in thinking he can be a Catholic and a Freemason. He cannot.

 

[Sixtus]

There is a provision for such a sanction in cases, to be identified locally, where an organisation works against the Faith or the Church (Canon 1374).

If I quote the above, my friend will ask me to give him the evidence of that which is in bold.

Please give me that evidence so that I may show him,

Please do not quote what others have said, show me the evidence that you have that you are not bigotted but have real proof, that I may take it to him and show him.

I await your reply

 

[fix]

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.

This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore, the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable
with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden.

The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave
sin and may not receive Holy Communion…

   Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26,        1983
   
   Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect 
   Father Jerome Hamer, O.P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium, Secretary

ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm

 

[Loy]

My Sacristan friend who is a freemason has told me his conscience is clear.but 'the first priest or bishop who tells him that he is committing a mortal sin by being a freemason, he will resign immediately and repent.

…

He is adament that he has asked the clergy and they have told him that the church takes a more liberal view these days now that the church does not see freemasonry as a rival to the Church or an alternative religion.

…

I asked him again and he reiterated what he said 'the first, the very first priest or bishop who tells him he is in mortal sin, he will instantly resign and repent No priest or bishop has told him that.

I can somewhat understand the confusion when priests and even bishops contradict the clear statements of the Vatican and the Pope. But in the end I don’t understand why some people stand ready to obey their local pastors, while completely disregarding Rome. It is a most curious understanding of Catholicism.

He says 'they are not a secret society as they publish all there is to know about freemasonry.

The oaths are not public knowledge. A Freemason does not see the oath he must take until he takes it.

 

[Sixtus]

Therefore, the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable
with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden.
.

So why do some Deacons, priests, Bishops and Arch-Bishops say that it is ok these days?

The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion…

If an activity is said to be ok by the Bishop, what member of the laity has the right to tell a fellow member they may not receive Holy Communion?

You see, my friends [there are several of them who are practicing Catholics] will most certainly ask me for proof what they are doing is wrong.

It is no good you quoting from outdated texts or opinions of others. I want to see the hard evidence you have, that the Deacon, Priest, and Arch Bishop who told them it is ‘ok’ are wrong.

I keep asking the same question but no one is willing to give me the answer I need. They will not listen to me unless I can prove the Church is wrong and you are right

 

[fix]

So why do some Deacons, priests, Bishops and Arch-Bishops say that it is ok these days?

If they do, it would seem they act outside their authority:

   It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on        the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what 
   has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation        issued Feb. 17,1981. [1]

ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm

If an activity is said to be ok by the Bishop, what member of the laity has the right to tell a fellow member they may not receive Holy Communion?

I do not think the laity have a “right” to tell somone to abstain, but they may have a duty to try to provide information for the person to better form their conscience.

 

[Sixtus]

I also have Catholic friends who are members of Probis, who meet at the local masonic temple.

I have been asked, and agreed to give a talk to that group.

Reading all that has been said, it seems this group may also be in deadly mortal sin, condemned to hellfire for all eternity.

Can anyone tell me if I will be committing a serious grave offence on a par with murder [that is a mortal sin] by being a guest speaker to Probis who meet in the masonic temple?