French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC]

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I went to a funeral yesterday of an Anglican friend of mine and we sang this beautiful hymn whose words seem so appropriate:

Sang to this tune : youtube.com/watch?v=1IecEyaHKPg

Brief life is here our portion;
Brief sorrow, short lived care;
The life that knows no ending,
The tearless life, is there.

O happy retribution!
Short toil, eternal rest;
For mortals and for sinners
A mansion with the blest!

And martyrdom hath roses
Upon that heavenly ground,
And white and virgin lilies
For virgin-souls abound.

There grief is turned to pleasure;
Such pleasure as below
No human voice can utter,
No human heart can know.

And after fleshly weakness,
And after this world’s night,
And after storm and whirlwind,
Are calm, and joy, and light.

And He, whom now we trust in,
Shall then be seen and known;
And they that know and see Him
Shall have Him for their own.

And now we watch and struggle,
And now we live in hope,
And Zion in her anguish
With Babylon must cope.

But there is David’s fountain,
And life in fullest glow;
And there the light is golden,
And milk and honey flow.

The morning shall awaken,
The shadows flee away,
And each true hearted servant
Shall shine as doth the day.

There God, our King and Portion,
In fullness of His grace,
We then shall see forever,
And worship face to face.

Jesu, in mercy bring us,
To that dear land of rest;
Who art, with God the Father,
And Spirit, ever blest.
 
OneSheep said:
Good Morning,

You are thinking that when they attack a church or mosque, they are laying claim to it.

You are thinking that Europeans are bound to be invaded by a large Muslim army, lose, and drive them back out centuries later? I get it, you have fear, and your fears are not without merit. However, fears have a tendency to stifle mercy, which is going to be the more long-term answer.

This is not a survey about Islam actually overtaking the Church, it is a survey asking the people of France their opinion as to whether Islam has too much influence in society. People are understandably voicing a negative reaction to Islam.

Again, it sounds like you have some fears, but fears can often be dealt with by use of information. In many parts of the world, including America, Muslims and Christians get along just fine without any animosity. Indeed, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims also get along just fine in many places.

What happens is that when one sect gains political power and favors their own, there are injustices.

The “IS” is reacting to those injustices. This has nothing to do with religion, as Pope Francis said.
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The Catholic Church has held no political power in France for more than a century. What injustices to those currently alive has it committed?

ICXC NIKA
 
crai7 said:
Catholicism in particular is in trouble in France and Spain right now. According to this survey, Islam well on its way to overtaking the Catholic Church in France:
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Well, why is it happening that Islam is the fastest growing religion today? First of all, how many Catholics pray a rosary five times every day? Or just pray seriously five times every day? What is the average size of the American Catholic family compared to that of the average Muslim family? At least in our neighborhood, the Muslim family has six children with one more coming. I don’t see why Muslims should be blamed if they cherish their religion, pray five times every day, dress modestly, and have large families.
Of course, I disagree strongly with the barbaric tactics used by some extremists especially against innocent people, but the Muslims I know are not like that and they don’t like it either.
 
A growing Muslim population is not the answer to declining birthrates in the West.
 
Beautiful said:
The number of mosques built in the USA has increased by 100% since 9/11. This fact alone deserves much discussion.
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In calling for a ban on foreign financing of French mosques, France’s prime minister has touched on a tricky debate in a country where the state’s relations with a fragmented Muslim community are constrained by entrenched secular rules.
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The report also detailed foreign investment in French Muslim organisations, finding that Morocco had allocated 6 million euros and Algeria 2 million euros (excluding wages to imams sent by Algiers) in 2016, while Saudi Arabia had contributed 3.8 million euros since 2011. However, it noted that most of the funding came from France itself, notably through individual donations.
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france24.com/en/20160729-foreign-financing-mosques-valls-france-secularism-islam

Interesting development.
Saudi Arabia is the largest financier of mosques in the US.
 
Beautiful said:
The number of mosques built in the USA has increased by 100% since 9/11. This fact alone deserves much discussion.
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Islam is growing quite fast as more and more Roman Catholic Churches are being shut down. Muslims, generally, take their religion quite seriously, as they pray five times every day and their women dress modestly with their heads covered.
 
Tomdstone said:
Islam is growing quite fast as more and more Roman Catholic Churches are being shut down. Muslims, generally, take their religion quite seriously, as they pray five times every day and their women dress modestly with their heads covered.
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There are a lot of Muslims that don’t do either.
 
Darryl1958 said:
There are a lot of Muslims that don’t do either.
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True, but according to a global survey, 63% of Muslims pray all five prayers everyday. how does that compare with Roman Catholics? How many Roman Catholics say 5 rosaries every day? And 43 percent of Muslim women cover their heads at all times inside or outside the mosque. What percentage of Roman Catholic women cover their heads in Church as required by St. Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians? Each Muslim woman has an average of almost 3 children, but in our neighborhood, it is much more.
 
Tomdstone said:
Well, why is it happening that Islam is the fastest growing religion today? First of all, how many Catholics pray a rosary five times every day? Or just pray seriously five times every day? What is the average size of the American Catholic family compared to that of the average Muslim family? At least in our neighborhood, the Muslim family has six children with one more coming. I don’t see why Muslims should be blamed if they cherish their religion, pray five times every day, dress modestly, and have large families.
Of course, I disagree strongly with the barbaric tactics used by some extremists especially against innocent people, but the Muslims I know are not like that and they don’t like it either.
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What the heck is going on???

I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

I got to go now, I’m sure I’m hallucinating…
😃
 
Tomdstone said:
True, but according to a global survey, 63% of Muslims pray all five prayers everyday. how does that compare with Roman Catholics? How many Roman Catholics say 5 rosaries every day?
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That is 47 percent who don’t.
I don’t deny that Catholicism has become much more secular. and cultural more than spiritual, but praying the rosary five times a day has never been a requirement for Catholics. That is simply not the same for Muslims, where these are the expectations built into the religion.

There is also the third world vs first world considerations. The churches in the Philippines are filled with Catholics, and the churches in my home town are filled with Filipino Catholics too, displacing the Italians and Poles and others who have come before.
But will they be filled with the children of those first immigration Filipinos?

Secular culture influences everybody.
Or, secularized people find different ways to fulfill their spirituality outside of traditional means. That is true for all of us.

Islam itself is a very politicized religion too, very much attuned to being secular. It is not so much about correct, orthodox belief, but about being a part of the team, wearing the colours as it were.

I a lot of ways, the differences are too great between Christianity and Islam for there to be a direct comparison to take place.
 
Darryl1958 said:
That is 47 percent who don’t.
I don’t deny that Catholicism has become much more secular. and cultural more than spiritual, but praying the rosary five times a day has never been a requirement for Catholics. That is simply not the same for Muslims, where these are the expectations built into the religion.

There is also the third world vs first world considerations. The churches in the Philippines are filled with Catholics, and the churches in my home town are filled with Filipino Catholics too, displacing the Italians and Poles and others who have come before.
But will they be filled with the children of those first immigration Filipinos?

Secular culture influences everybody.
Or, secularized people find different ways to fulfill their spirituality outside of traditional means. That is true for all of us.

Islam itself is a very politicized religion too, very much attuned to being secular. It is not so much about correct, orthodox belief, but about being a part of the team, wearing the colours as it were.

I a lot of ways, the differences are too great between Christianity and Islam for there to be a direct comparison to take place.
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I think you meant 37% who don’t say five prayers every day, there still remain a whole lot of 1.6 billion Muslims who religiously say five prayers each and every day?
 
Tomdstone said:
I think you meant 37% who don’t say five prayers every day, there still remain a whole lot of 1.6 billion Muslims who religiously say five prayers each and every day?
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Okay. That is what I meant.

What I also said is that 63 % of Muslims saying their prayers each day does not necessarily mean that they are saying them **religiously **each day. People go along to get along, especially when the alternative is getting killed as kafir.

Islam is as political as it is religious. It always has been. Piety is not required. People wear the colours. Submission means putting in the appearance. Actual belief is no such a big deal.

Islam is not like Catholicism at all in that regard.
 
OneSheep said:
Good Morning,

You are thinking that when they attack a church or mosque, they are laying claim to it.

You are thinking that Europeans are bound to be invaded by a large Muslim army, lose, and drive them back out centuries later? I get it, you have fear, and your fears are not without merit. However, fears have a tendency to stifle mercy, which is going to be the more long-term answer.

This is not a survey about Islam actually overtaking the Church, it is a survey asking the people of France their opinion as to whether Islam has too much influence in society. People are understandably voicing a negative reaction to Islam.

Again, it sounds like you have some fears, but fears can often be dealt with by use of information. In many parts of the world, including America, Muslims and Christians get along just fine without any animosity. Indeed, Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslims also get along just fine in many places.

What happens is that when one sect gains political power and favors their own, there are injustices.

The “IS” is reacting to those injustices. This has nothing to do with religion, as Pope Francis said.
Click to expand...
Do you understand the Moslem theology/ideology IS is operating under? There is a strain which requires Moslems to continually work towards the spread of Islam by whatever means are at hand, when circumstances allow.

Mercy is for the contrite; forgiveness does not preclude prudence. If people are trying literally to kill people around you, well, Fr Rutler says Christians have a moral duty to defeat terrorism.
 
Tomdstone said:
True, but according to a global survey, 63% of Muslims pray all five prayers everyday. how does that compare with Roman Catholics? How many Roman Catholics say 5 rosaries every day? And 43 percent of Muslim women cover their heads at all times inside or outside the mosque. What percentage of Roman Catholic women cover their heads in Church as required by St. Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians? Each Muslim woman has an average of almost 3 children, but in our neighborhood, it is much more.
Click to expand...
To understand what the Muslims pray about, it is necessary to read the Koran.

For Muslims, conversions of infidels is an essential part of their practice.

Jihad.

read “JihadWatch”.

www.jihadwatch.org

Important if we are going to understand what is going on.
 
St_Francis said:
Do you understand the Moslem theology/ideology IS is operating under? There is a strain which requires Moslems to continually work towards the spread of Islam by whatever means are at hand, when circumstances allow.

Mercy is for the contrite; forgiveness does not preclude prudence. If people are trying literally to kill people around you, well,** Fr Rutler says **Christians have a moral duty to defeat terrorism.
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lifezette.com/faithzette/christian-duty-in-face-of-murder/ Fr. Rutler says
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So we can easily conclude that France is within limits to cut off foreign financial interests that fund the building of mosques and spread of Islam. It shouldn’t be a matter of debate in a country that needs to protect Christian family/state.

Today is the Feast Day of St. Peter Chrysologus
Today while the virtue of John (the Baptist) and the ferocity of Herod are related to us, our innards were shaken, our heats trembled, our sight grew dim, our mind became dull, our hearing deserted us. For is there anything within human sensation that remains undisturbed when a large amount of vice destroys a large amount of virtue? ~ St. Chyrosologus
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Tomdstone said:
True, but according to a global survey, 63% of Muslims pray all five prayers everyday. how does that compare with Roman Catholics? How many Roman Catholics say 5 rosaries every day? And 43 percent of Muslim women cover their heads at all times inside or outside the mosque. What percentage of Roman Catholic women cover their heads in Church as required by St. Paul in the Epistle to the Corinthians? Each Muslim woman has an average of almost 3 children, but in our neighborhood, it is much more.
Click to expand...
I recently visited Rome and was part of and witness to the gathering of the Faithful. Thousands peacefully, joyfully and with a measurable amount of silence gathered within about an hour for Pope Francis’ blessing. The crowd dispersed in the same way it came…quite beautiful to be a part of and to witness.

It is worth noting here that the largest mosque in the Western world is in Rome.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Okay. That is what I meant.

What I also said is that 63 % of Muslims saying their prayers each day does not necessarily mean that they are saying them **religiously **each day. People go along to get along, especially when the alternative is getting killed as kafir.

Islam is as political as it is religious. It always has been. Piety is not required. People wear the colours. Submission means putting in the appearance. Actual belief is no such a big deal.

Islam is not like Catholicism at all in that regard.
Click to expand...
That’s right. I’ve lived in Muslim countries. The hypocrisy is astounding. In Kuwait, it is common for groups of friends to rent flats during Ramadan so they can eat and drink (including alcohol) whenever they wish without upsetting the more conservative members of their family/society.
Beautiful said:
I recently visited Rome and was part of and witness to the gathering of the Faithful. Thousands peacefully, joyfully and with a measurable amount of silence gathered within about an hour for Pope Francis’ blessing. The crowd dispersed in the same way it came…quite beautiful to be a part of and to witness.

It is worth noting here that the largest mosque in the Western world is in Rome.
Click to expand...
It is indeed an amazing thing to see huge groups of Catholics coming together peacefully at the Vatican or at World Youth Days.

And then the Muslims thank the Italians by demanding that crucifixes in public places be removed (fortunately that was denied so far) and disrespecting Italian culture/heritage in other ways.
 
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