French church attacked during Mass, priest murdered [CC]

[Tomdstone]

We can debate foreign intervention all we want, but you go a field to far for laying the blame for European women being molested. Sovereign nations in Europe have the responsibility for securing their people and their borders.

Why did these people migrate from areas controlled by ISIS? Who was responsible for ISIS? According to the Republican presidential candidate: The Americans Hillary and Obama were responsible for the creation of ISIS. ISIS is the organization supporting and guiding much of the terrorism we are seeing today. They brag about it and they take credit for it.

 

[OneSheep]

Good Morning Francis,

Well, when we all forgive, reconciliation will follow. However, reconciliation between people is not always possible.

Which are you saying? These two statements contradict each other.

The key word there was “all”. If one party does not forgive, reconciliation will not occur.

Think of cases where i.e. someone is resentful toward a political leader. In that case, the leader may have offended the person without even knowing him. The person may eventually forgive the leader, but since there was no relationship in the first place, reconciliation is more of something that occurs within the individual than an actual interaction with the leader. This is also applicable when I forgive a terrorist who has caused harm far away, when I forgive someone who died long ago, and many other instances.

Reconciliation brings about a natural good feeling because we got something we wanted. If I reconcile with my friend with whom I had a disagreement, I feel good because I got my friend back, right?

Reconciliation means the restoration of friendly relations; thus, it requires both sides to accomplish. I forgive because I want God to forgive me; I forgive because I want to become closer to God. *If it happens that *the other person moves in the right direction, reconciliation *may *be possible, and if it happens, then it is indeed wonderful.

There is a holiness attained. Right relations is a holiness, and it is wonderful. But you see, when we resent someone we do not know, that restoration is something that simply happens within the person. We let go of our resentment. This is not about a personal relationship with someone else, it has more to do with a state of mind, a state of holiness within. It is about our personal relationship with God. If we cannot forgive someone, we will not realize God’s forgiveness.

However, reconciliation is *impossible *with someone who wants to cut your head off. Sorry, but all the forgiveness of the sins of Daesh against other people will not accomplish any protection for those in their path.

Ye of little faith! Yes, sometimes I get pessimistic too.

In order to actually accomplish something to help these poor people, we must fight.

Yes, when all else fails… not that we should be standing around thinking about options while people are dying.

This is an analogy; one must take into account the difference in nature between bricks and people, no?

Yes! But as bricks, we are called to take on His work, God does the healing, but we have to be His tools. Forgiveness heals. Again, we are talking about long term solutions that can begin in the short term - with a change of heart.

 

[OneSheep]

If my neighbor comes over and is really mad at me and complains about how I treated the tools he lent me, and he remains angry even when I show him that I got one of them repaired for him, and did this and that to take care of them, I am puzzled by his continued anger. I continue to show him receipts and explain how I cleaned the tools, etc., but his anger does not diminish.

Then my other neighbor tells me that this first one is angry because he thinks I committed adultery with his wife. Oh, so that’s what the problem is!!!

Am I now not in a much better position to address the problem of my neighbor’s anger against me (assuming I did not commit adultery with his wife)?

This is why it is important to address the true reasoning of the Islamist radicals for their actions and recruitment. If we continue to *ignore *the roots of their actions in the theology of Islam, then we will continue to do wrong and ineffective things against them.

I really like your analogy, but like I said, Pope Francis has the true picture of what the problem is. The Sunnis in that region have been treated unjustly, and they want revenge, they want to punish people. Did you see that quote I put into my last response to Josie?

Notice that there are plenty of “infidels” in China, but we do not hear about terror attacks there. The Chinese had not participated in the injustice against the Sunnis.

You wrote elsewhere:
All this is argument from emotion. Forgiving feels good!!! Let’s do more of that!!! Examining the true sources of radical Islamist violence makes us feel bad Let’s not do that any more.

Sounds ridiculous. I never wrote that.

Why is it that so many people … ? Why are so many afraid to look at the true sources of the violence and see how very evil people can become when they sink into sin and really bad philosophy?

The true source is the economic and political injustice. I agree with Pope Francis. You disagree, I understand.

As far as “what we might feel in similar circumstances”, this is our calling, to love, to empathize, to understand. We naturally do this, it is a God-given desire we have toward holiness. Forgiveness of enemies, though, is supernatural. Jesus calls us to the supernatural.

How exactly would this work? Many of those people are dead. Most of the rest are held as slaves in the hands of Daesh. Those who are not in those situations are struggling to manage to eat and get medical care for injuries due to battle.

Are they supposed to walk up to the Daesh camp and say, hey, guys, we forgive you. Does that make any sense at all?

Hey, I know it is a long shot in these cases. It would involve a somewhat Ghandian approach, a lot of sacrifice would have to happen. I am not promoting such a thing in the battleground. It would be more like something that begins in the hearts of people tired of all the war, ready to forgive and see real solutions.

To be honest, God Himself does not chase after us when we are living in our sin. What does He do? He waits until we are sick of our sin, sick enough to want to do what we must to change, sick enough to *go to Him *and beg for His forgiveness.

Actually, I have a different image of God. I like the “footprints in the sand” image. He carries us, even as we reject Him. Your image is also very Catholic though.

We can sit around and…

I don’t need to remind you my stance on pacifism, right?

 

[OneSheep]

St Francis:

Each time a mayor of a city suggests the native European girls of his town change their clothing or walk with others *instead of *acting against the perpetrators of the crimes, Daesh and its fellow RIs are taking over a little more.

A mayor of a European city has asked girls to change their clothes? A mayor is not acting against perpetrators of crime?

Each time the social services and police of more than one city ignore the sex crimes perpetrated against the young girls who were born and raised in those towns by Moslem men *who believe their theology allows this, *Daesh and its fellow RIs are taking over a little more.

The police are ignoring sex crimes?

Each time newspapers refuse to print the pictures of Mohammed which sparked riots around the world; each time the government blacks out references to Islam in the writings of a killer; each time we say that we do not understand why a man—who shouted Allahu Akbar while committing violence—killed a group of people; each time we let the kidnapping of 200 girls from their school slide with only a hashtag; Daesh and its fellow RIs are taking over a little more.

Refusing to print pictures of Mohammed is a matter of respect. As far as blacking out reference to Islam, this may be a big nod of respect toward the majority of Muslims, not allowing extremists to define Islam or allow angry recruiting based on their religion. No one “let” the kidnapping of 200 girls happen. There was a huge effort to get them back, there was a lot of prayer and effort that went into that.

You wrote about people promoting fear. It is right to promote fear when there is a reason to fear.

Perhaps, but we have to get to the truth of the matter. I believe Pope Francis sees it. I think it is also important as to how we “promote fear” if we are called to do so. Such promotion must be done with mercy, and forgiveness is the greatest act of mercy.

It has nothing to do with forgiveness; how can we forgive and yet forget the victims?

We must remember the victims first, and always. If we did not care about the victims, we would not be resenting Daesh in the first place, right? Our forgiveness of “IS” is not meant to diminish or dismiss the injury done to the victims, for who we are to do all we can to help. Forgiveness is something between the individual and his Creator, but it is also the long-term solution for relations between people and groups of people.

As far as the source of the violence, we have beat the topic to death, right? I understand your POV, but I disagree. We both agree that forgiveness is called for and we are to be merciful to all people. We both agree that pacifism is not merciful. We simply disagree on the source of the violence, which effects no change in the call for action, mercy, or forgiveness. Be thankful to God that the vast majority of Muslims find the “IS” a complete abomination. Let their religion evolve, Francis, please be part of that solution by giving them voice.

I heard an interview yesterday with a NYT reporter who spent time over there. Muslim men of IS are giving their female sex slaves birth control pills to avoid Islamic rules involving paternal responsibility. So much for their embracing Islam, right? They want Islam to evolve differently, to suit their anger and wants. They are a group of people who need to repent.

 

[St_Francis]

Good Morning Francis,

Well, when we all forgive, reconciliation will follow. However, reconciliation between people is not always possible.

The key word there was “all”. If one party does not forgive, reconciliation will not occur.

Think of cases where i.e. someone is resentful toward a political leader. In that case, the leader may have offended the person without even knowing him. The person may eventually forgive the leader, but since there was no relationship in the first place, reconciliation is more of something that occurs within the individual than an actual interaction with the leader. This is also applicable when I forgive a terrorist who has caused harm far away, when I forgive someone who died long ago, and many other instances.

There is a holiness attained. Right relations is a holiness, and it is wonderful. But you see, when we resent someone we do not know, that restoration is something that simply happens within the person. We let go of our resentment. This is not about a personal relationship with someone else, it has more to do with a state of mind, a state of holiness within. It is about our personal relationship with God. If we cannot forgive someone, we will not realize God’s forgiveness.

Ye of little faith! Yes, sometimes I get pessimistic too.

Yes, when all else fails… not that we should be standing around thinking about options while people are dying.

Yes! But as bricks, we are called to take on His work, God does the healing, but we have to be His tools. Forgiveness heals. Again, we are talking about long term solutions that can begin in the short term - with a change of heart.

Well, in working on answers to your posts, I have found information which helps me to understand your view more clearly. I think my main problem was misunderstanding your position, which I took to be *in opposition *to my stating that violent jihad is taught in Islamic theology and that this is important to consider when dealing with the situation.

Your challenging what I wrote has made my thinking more nuanced; for example, I watched a video which included a man recounting his story from being an organizer of violence to being in jail for several years and changing his mind through discussions with men who had been down the same path. There are others who are working on changing the minds of people who have been or are being radicalized.

I was not previously of the mindset that “once a violent radical Islamist, always a violent radical Islamist,” which may be why, I suspect, we were focusing on different aspects of the situation, but I believe I now have a better understanding of the wider picture, which I think is really great because there is more scope for prayer and possibly action. It’s as if a bridge has been created between sets of ideas I had had.

I also have a better understanding of how peaceful Moslems view their religion, or, perhaps, interact with their religion?

I still believe, however, that understanding --well, maybe not “the theology of Islam,” which encompasses waaaay too many interpretations-- the theology of the Islamists is very important in dealing with the situation, with the terrorists themselves, and with those they recruit. I think it is important to understand what ISIS is saying that draws people, and what the people who are so drawn are attracted to and why. I still don’t think that denying these things exist or closing our eyes to them is a good idea at all.

Oops, must run. Maybe I was rambling anyway!

 

[ShrodingersCat]

I offer this as something to think about:

Imagine you tune into the radio and hear an interview with someone recently converted to Buddhism from Catholicism. This person is saying that they became convinced that the Catholic religion was false because they studied the bible in depth and discovered that it teaches that genocide is OK if the people you are killing are a different religion. What would be your reaction?

Well, mine would be dismissal. We have countless learned theologians who can explain the meaning behind God’s commands and how they are narrated in the Bible. But at the same time, a cold reading of Joshua without context might confuse someone.

So if countless learned Imams interpret the Qur’an as peaceful, on what authority do we insist that it is not? A few converts to Christianity? A terrorist group that is thriving on the instability of the region it originated it? A few Christians who have read the Qur’an and come to their own conclusions?

 

[OneSheep]

Good Morning Josie,

Here is what you are missing.

God works through us, but we cannot understand what is in the killers hearts, we can only guess.

This is not an “only”! Such guessing is a huge thing, and I have found that it is important to exhaust all of the possibilities that we have access to. This is a path toward forgiveness and reconciliation, to exhaust all of the possibilities.

God knows what is in their hearts.

Yes, but we know that God forgives them. He sees their blindness. We, too, can determine what it is that they are blind to, we can guess all of the possibilities.

I am trying to tell you that once evil takes hold of a person’s heart and soul, for whatever reason (revenge, greed, etc.) there is no human way to change it by our forgiveness, only Jesus Christ, the Son of God, can heal it. You can pray for their soul, and make sacrifices for them, but only Jesus can heal what is in the soul, and bring it into the light of Christ

.

Are you saying that the Spirit cannot heal through your forgiving of someone? Has the Spirit ever healed your own heart when someone forgave you? This happens, right? Or, I may be missing something here.

Not all Muslims are hateful, you are mixing this understanding with your blind belief that the killers are not hateful, and that in some odd way they are just poor souls hurting inside or something like that. I believe they are evil and hateful. Revenge and murder are often motivated by blind hatred. You can forgive them, love them, open your arms to them, that will not change their hearts. I believe they know what they are doing is wrong, don’t you?

Actually, they believe that what they are doing is right. Do you remember that quote from the Dabiq article? He thought it was senseless not to take revenge. Yes, absolutely, they are filled with hate. Hate blinds us, all of us are blinded when we hate.

So, is the part I am missing that I don’t believe that they think what they are doing is wrong?

The people who hung Jesus thought that what they were doing was right. All of us are very capable of such blindness. Resentment blinds the workings of our conscience, it severely and automatically hampers empathy.

Is the part I am missing that I don’t see those people of “IS”/Daesh as evil, as the people of that same group view all the “infidels”?

I’m glad I had the chance to show you that I have no illusions about their hatred. I must say, though, that it is possible that a few of the “IS” do not hate. They may be simply struggling to create their own state and have forgiven their enemies. They may fear what the victors may do to their loved ones if they lose power. All of these can also be considered in the realm of possibility.

Or, am I missing something else? I am still very open-minded to your suggestions, and I am grateful for the discussion.

 

[OneSheep]

Well, in working on answers to your posts, I have found information which helps me to understand your view more clearly. I think my main problem was misunderstanding your position, which I took to be *in opposition *to my stating that violent jihad is taught in Islamic theology and that this is important to consider when dealing with the situation.

Your challenging what I wrote has made my thinking more nuanced; for example, I watched a video which included a man recounting his story from being an organizer of violence to being in jail for several years and changing his mind through discussions with men who had been down the same path. There are others who are working on changing the minds of people who have been or are being radicalized.

I was not previously of the mindset that “once a violent radical Islamist, always a violent radical Islamist,” which may be why, I suspect, we were focusing on different aspects of the situation, but I believe I now have a better understanding of the wider picture, which I think is really great because there is more scope for prayer and possibly action. It’s as if a bridge has been created between sets of ideas I had had.

I also have a better understanding of how peaceful Moslems view their religion, or, perhaps, interact with their religion?

I still believe, however, that understanding --well, maybe not “the theology of Islam,” which encompasses waaaay too many interpretations-- the theology of the Islamists is very important in dealing with the situation, with the terrorists themselves, and with those they recruit. I think it is important to understand what ISIS is saying that draws people, and what the people who are so drawn are attracted to and why. I still don’t think that denying these things exist or closing our eyes to them is a good idea at all.

Oops, must run.

Yes, I agree, violent Jihad is taught. I thank you for the discussion, Francis. I hope that my last response to the “fear” section does not get us on a different tone, but it is fruitful to get to the bottom of those situations too.

God Bless your day!

 

[OneSheep]

I offer this as something to think about:

Imagine you tune into the radio and hear an interview with someone recently converted to Buddhism from Catholicism. This person is saying that they became convinced that the Catholic religion was false because they studied the bible in depth and discovered that it teaches that genocide is OK if the people you are killing are a different religion. What would be your reaction?

Well, mine would be dismissal. We have countless learned theologians who can explain the meaning behind God’s commands and how they are narrated in the Bible. But at the same time, a cold reading of Joshua without context might confuse someone.

So if countless learned Imams interpret the Qur’an as peaceful, on what authority do we insist that it is not? A few converts to Christianity? A terrorist group that is thriving on the instability of the region it originated it? A few Christians who have read the Qur’an and come to their own conclusions?

Yes, ShrodingersCat, this is my point too, and also what I think is behind Pope Francis’ perspective.

 

[Brendan_64]

The true source is the economic and political injustice.

Not according to ISIS, it isn’t.

Perhaps if we want to find out the reasons why we are being attacked and murdered we ought to listen to those who are carrying this out. Surely they ought to know better what motivates them to do this than we do?

ISIS have been pretty clear in their last issue of Dabiq.

They hate us because we are unbelievers (and in that Christians are included), because we are liberal, because some of us are atheists, because we commit crimes against Islam (i.e. we do things that Islam does not permit), because of our crimes against Muslim people, and because we have invaded their lands. Then, as if to knock on the head any Western grasping at the last two reasons as the rationale, they go on to say that the main reasons are not because of our actions against Muslims and their land, and that they would still hate and attack us even if we hadn’t. They also make it crystal clear that their reasons are driven by religion, by Islam.

ISIS are very clear on this, so we can either go on believing that we know more about what motivates ISIS than they do, or we can wake up.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Not according to ISIS, it isn’t.

Perhaps if we want to find out the reasons why we are being attacked and murdered we ought to listen to those who are carrying this out. Surely they ought to know better what motivates them to do this than we do?

ISIS have been pretty clear in their last issue of Dabiq.

They hate us because we are unbelievers (and in that Christians are included), because we are liberal, because some of us are atheists, because we commit crimes against Islam (i.e. we do things that Islam does not permit), because of our crimes against Muslim people, and because we have invaded their lands. Then, as if to knock on the head any Western grasping at the last two reasons as the rationale, they go on to say that the main reasons are not because of our actions against Muslims and their land, and that they would still hate and attack us even if we hadn’t. They also make it crystal clear that their reasons are driven by religion, by Islam.

ISIS are very clear on this, so we can either go on believing that we know more about what motivates ISIS than they do, or we can wake up.

There is a reason why ISIS is thriving in a country that is in political turmoil and not in countries that are not (e.g. Saudi Arabia). That’s because they cannot take a hold in a country where the people are relatively happy with their situation.

 

[St_Francis]

I really like your analogy, but like I said, Pope Francis has the true picture of what the problem is. The Sunnis in that region have been treated unjustly, and they want revenge, they want to punish people. Did you see that quote I put into my last response to Josie?

Why are Moslems from all classes, backgrounds, and nations joining ISIS, then?

Notice that there are plenty of “infidels” in China, but we do not hear about terror attacks there. The Chinese had not participated in the injustice against the Sunnis.

I have always maintained that the majority of Moslems in the world are peaceful, that the radical Islamists are a small minority.

Sounds ridiculous. I never wrote that.

I apologize; I put that badly and didn’t mean you said that. I meant people in a position to do something who seem to be dancing around what is happening.

The true source is the economic and political injustice. I agree with Pope Francis. You disagree, I understand.

As far as “what we might feel in similar circumstances”, this is our calling, to love, to empathize, to understand. We naturally do this, it is a God-given desire we have toward holiness. Forgiveness of enemies, though, is supernatural. Jesus calls us to the supernatural.

That’s not what I meant, tho. What I was talking about is the tendency to say, If I did that, I would have to be feeling XXX, and then attribute XXX to those who are doing something. To me, it is more important to listen to the people themselves, to find out what *they *think and feel, not just project myself onto them.

Hey, I know it is a long shot in these cases. It would involve a somewhat Ghandian approach, a lot of sacrifice would have to happen. I am not promoting such a thing in the battleground. It would be more like something that begins in the hearts of people tired of all the war, ready to forgive and see real solutions.

I have certainly read enough accounts of people forgiving and meeting with their loved one’s murderer to not discount this as a human possibility; I have to admit I was thinking more of the logistics and when a good time to do it would be.

Actually, I have a different image of God. I like the “footprints in the sand” image. He carries us, even as we reject Him. Your image is also very Catholic though.

Oh, I believe He can be beside us and even carrying us while not chasing after us.

I don’t need to remind you my stance on pacifism, right?

Right!

 

[JimG]

Father Z weighs in with some references here.

 

[Brendan_64]

There is a reason why ISIS is thriving in a country that is in political turmoil and not in countries that are not (e.g. Saudi Arabia). That’s because they cannot take a hold in a country where the people are relatively happy with their situation.

Saudi Arabia implements on a controlled basis, what ISIS implement on a less controlled basis- beheadings, crucifixions, lashings, chopping off of hands and more. Where is the inspiration and the funding for ISOS coming from? Why has Saudi Arabia not accepted a single refugee? One of the Saudi princes has already said tht why should they accept these refugees when they can go to Europe and spread Islam. The Saudis have also offered to support Europe in this refugee crisis by offerrong to build 200 mosques in Germany. Flooding Europe with refugees is part of ISIS’s plan (they told us they would do this before it happened) and Saudi Arabia appears to b supporting this strategy.

 

[St_Francis]

A mayor of a European city has asked girls to change their clothes? A mayor is not acting against perpetrators of crime?

The police are ignoring sex crimes?

Yes, each item I mentioned is an actual case, and if you want, I can link to articles for each one.

Refusing to print pictures of Mohammed is a matter of respect.

Sorry, the same folks who say that had no problem with “P*ss Christ,” or the “Holy Virgin Mary” surrounded by elephant dung and pornography. The former win an award and was partially funded by the National Endowment for the Arts, and the latter was exhibited in three European cities, won the Turner award, and sold for $4.5 Million. Pictures of each are all over the Internet.

As far as blacking out reference to Islam, this may be a big nod of respect toward the majority of Muslims, not allowing extremists to define Islam or allow angry recruiting based on their religion.

It is a sign of respect when a private individual omits information; it is censorship when the government does it. We are taking so much care of the Moslems that we are losing our own free speech, and falling into lying.

No one “let” the kidnapping of 200 girls happen. There was a huge effort to get them back, there was a lot of prayer and effort that went into that.

I did not say that, either. I said, let it *slide *with just a hashtag.

Perhaps, but we have to get to the truth of the matter. I believe Pope Francis sees it. I think it is also important as to how we “promote fear” if we are called to do so. Such promotion must be done with mercy, and forgiveness is the greatest act of mercy.

I’m all for telling the truth with mercy. TBH, I have felt sorry for these people for decades because they are used as pawns by their own people.

We must remember the victims first, and always. **If we did not care about the victims, we would not be resenting Daesh in the first place, right? ** Our forgiveness of “IS” is not meant to diminish or dismiss the injury done to the victims, for who we are to do all we can to help. Forgiveness is something between the individual and his Creator, but it is also the long-term solution for relations between people and groups of people.

It still bothers me that you assume that any thought that something ought to be done stems from an unforgiving and resentful desire for vengeance. There is such a thing as righteous anger: a desire for justice (giving to each his due); and there is still such a thing as “unreasonable patience,” as St Thomas Aquinas puts it.

As far as the source of the violence, we have beat the topic to death, right? I understand your POV, but I disagree. We both agree that forgiveness is called for and we are to be merciful to all people. We both agree that pacifism is not merciful. We simply disagree on the source of the violence, which effects no change in the call for action, mercy, or forgiveness.

While there is no change in the call for mercy or forgiveness, there is an effect in other areas, but overall, I agree, we disagree on this!

Be thankful to God that the vast majority of Muslims find the “IS” a complete abomination. Let their religion evolve, Francis, please be part of that solution by giving them voice.

Perhaps it is important for them to consider what I have been saying as well. if they do not deal with those parts of the theology overtly, they will remain available to evil doers to lure their children into terror.

I heard an interview yesterday with a NYT reporter who spent time over there. Muslim men of IS are giving their female sex slaves birth control pills to avoid Islamic rules involving paternal responsibility. So much for their embracing Islam, right? They want Islam to evolve differently, to suit their anger and wants. They are a group of people who need to repent.

Only some Moslems teach that abc should not be used from fear of financial problems. Mohamed himself seems to have said nothing about it.

 

[St_Francis]

Yes, I agree, violent Jihad is taught. I thank you for the discussion, Francis. I hope that my last response to the “fear” section does not get us on a different tone, but it is fruitful to get to the bottom of those situations too.

God Bless your day!

Yes, I have learned a lot and appreciate your efforts and patience with me I don’t think we can resolve this last question, but perhaps we can sort out some of the related issues, if we have any energy left,

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Saudi Arabia implements on a controlled basis, what ISIS implement on a less controlled basis- beheadings, crucifixions, lashings, chopping off of hands and more. Where is the inspiration and the funding for ISOS coming from? Why has Saudi Arabia not accepted a single refugee? One of the Saudi princes has already said tht why should they accept these refugees when they can go to Europe and spread Islam. The Saudis have also offered to support Europe in this refugee crisis by offerrong to build 200 mosques in Germany. Flooding Europe with refugees is part of ISIS’s plan (they told us they would do this before it happened) and Saudi Arabia appears to b supporting this strategy.

Oh I’m no fan or their regime, I’m just saying there is a reason why ISIS is thriving in Syria and it was the first rich Islamic country that popped into my head. Lebanon and Jordan are great examples of Muslim nations that are doing their best for the Syrians.

 

[OneSheep]

Father Z weighs in with some references

Fr. Z sounds like a Catholic who finds more credence in the words of “IS” than Pope Francis. Do you also?

“IS” is saying it is about Islam in order to justify their actions and gain more recruits. Why on Earth would we want to help promote their message?

Well, let me answer that. People promote their message in order to defame Islam altogether.

This is the Year of Mercy, Jim, remember?

1 Corinthians 13:
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When we seek to defame Islam altogether, we dishonor the majority of Muslim leaders who are working toward bringing Islamic teachings into the context of a modern world that believes we can all get along and respect each other regardless of faith, ethnicity, or otherwise.

 

[St_Francis]

Oh I’m no fan or their regime, I’m just saying there is a reason why ISIS is thriving in Syria and it was the first rich Islamic country that popped into my head. Lebanon and Jordan are great examples of Muslim nations that are doing their best for the Syrians.

These are old figures, but show the range of where ISIS recruits come from. Note the difference in scales (bottom of charts) used for western and ME nations!

 

[JimG]

Fr. Z sounds like a Catholic who finds more credence in the words of “IS” than Pope Francis. Do you also?

“IS” is saying it is about Islam in order to justify their actions and gain more recruits. Why on Earth would we want to help promote their message?

Well, let me answer that. People promote their message in order to defame Islam altogether.

This is the Year of Mercy, Jim, remember?

1 Corinthians 13:
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When we seek to defame Islam altogether, we dishonor the majority of Muslim leaders who are working toward bringing Islamic teachings into the context of a modern world that believes we can all get along and respect each other regardless of faith, ethnicity, or otherwise.

People can judge for themselves. Pope Francis has declared a Year of Mercy and I am glad of it.
I can only hope that ISIS might also proclaim a year of mercy.