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kimg901
Guest
You are aware that Utah has the highest use of anti-depressants and suicide among teens and young adults right? Why is that? Maybe because the of the hardship mormonism puts on people like “becoming a god, etc etc”
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ClearWater
Guest
As someone of the Church of LDS, what do you make of this?
catholic.com/tracts/stumpers-for-the-jehovahs-witnesses
catholic.com/tracts/more-stumpers-for-the-jehovahs-witnesses
catholic.com/tracts/stumpers-for-the-jehovahs-witnesses
catholic.com/tracts/more-stumpers-for-the-jehovahs-witnesses
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Marie5890
Guest
bingo…
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Marie5890
Guest
SO you felt better…
I can have a glass of wine and feel better…
But theologically, where were you, and where are you at?
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Fellowshipping. The RCIA process is meant to bring a person to Christ and fellowship with the community. One of the most difficult aspects of RCIA. There is a tight cohesive group, which sometimes stay in contact with each other, but the day to day living a Christian life is lonely for many Christians.
The problem with the Mormon version of fellowshipping is that codependency is developed, which isn’t a good thing for someone who is struggling with mental illness. I hope it works out, but have my doubts.
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iepuras
Guest
Uchtdorf is a big Mormon rock star right now. So many of my Mormon friends and family absolutely love him.
I will admit that after I left the LDS, I really missed the plan of salvation. It was so beautiful. That beauty fades when you dig deeper. I had to reject the plan of salvation no matter how beautiful I thought it was because of the source. After I rejected Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, I had to reject the plan of salvation because the source is corrupt.
Do you know much about Joseph Smith? When I learned the truth about him, it was easy for me to see he was a false prophet no matter how nice the plan of salvation seemed. The thing that helped me to see that JS was a false prophet is the fact that he stole the wives of other men, including faithful apostles. Eleven of his plural wives were already married to other men. God would never command one of His prophets to steal another man’s wife. I’m not saying that prophets have to be perfect, but at least they shouldn’t be committing adultery and still be a prophet. I recommend reading “No Man Knows My History” by Fawn Brodie or “Rough Stone Rolling” by Richard Bushman for a biography on Joseph Smith. You will learn a lot that is not taught in Sunday School such as money digging, the peep stone in the hat for translation and the Kirtland bank scandal.
Mormons will emphasize the truthfulness of Book of Mormon despite any objections to Joseph Smith. The BOM sounds good because much of it is plagiarized from the Bible. Many of the stories aren’t all that original. Alma the Younger = Saul of Tarsus. Also, none of the unique Mormon beliefs are even in the Book of Mormon.
At the end of the day, even the plan of salvation is not as nice as it seems. As a woman in the celestial kingdom, I would have to share my husband with countless wives and continuously bear spirit children. Presumably some kind of pregnancy would be involved. I love my babies but being eternally pregnant does not sound all that great to me. Also, in the plan of salvation, families are often divided for eternity. If a husband is not faithful to Mormonism, his wife is married off to a more “worthy” man and he is resigned to a lower kingdom. How is that for forever families?
I highly suggest getting proper medical help and counseling for the depression. I am glad you are feeling better. However, converting to Mormonism doesn’t fix the reason why you were suffering from depression in the first place.
When I learned the truth about Mormonism, I was in a very dark place and faced the abyss of atheism. The LDS church really did a number on my soul. Fortunately God guided me to the Catholic Church and I am coming home. It has not always been easy but it has gotten better.
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TRH1292
Guest
We should never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever be happy about someone leaving the Holy Catholic Church, no matter what the circumstances. The Catholic Church is THE ark of Salvation, and while God’s Grace is at work in all places and everywhere, apostasy from the Church is a very grave sin, and we should pray for the soul’s of those who do leave.
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the_phoenix
Guest
Hail Mary, Full of Grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blest is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blest is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now
and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
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Cathoholic
Guest
BlessedLDS: Welcome to the forum. Please remain around here and keep reading. You are most welcome here at Catholic Answers Forums.
As I suggested to your friend SalesianSDB to keep his friendship with you, likewise I will suggest to you that you keep your friendship with SalesianSDB.
Consider looking into the links and sources I provided for SalesianSDB in my last post.
Prayerfully search for the fullness of objective truth. I know right now you think you have it. Don’t worry, you will not exhaust God’s truths in a lifetime of looking so keep going deeper.
If you have any Marian devotion remaining, I would consider re-kindling that too. The Blessed Virgin Mary is a most powerful advocate. Would a Rosary a day be too much to ask? How about one decade a day? I know most cradle-Mormon’s probably wouldn’t consider praying the Rosary, but you are not a cradle Mormon.
I will say a Rosary for you tonight BlessedLDS.
Being away from the Church, you will also have a “Eucharistic hunger” that preaching and “fellowship” will not satisfy. When that happens to you may I suggest going to a Catholic Eucharistic Adoration chapel and just sitting there thinking about what ever you will be called to recollect upon?
Remember also when you are at the Mormon services or watching Mormon videos, they will use the same words and phrases that you are quite familiar with . . . but MEAN something VERY DIFFERENT. For example, the phrase “Eternal Father” to a Mormon means something very different than what it means to a Catholic (hint: He is not really “eternal” in Mormonism).
Consider the Mormon’s teachings’ lack of sense of proportionality with regards to morality. I’ve heard an eventual Temple-worthy Mormon say drinking coffee would be a disqualifier for him when he was interviewed (he was eventually accepted as “Temple-worthy”). But other extremely disordered sins (I won’t get into them here) would NOT be a disqualification for him. He eventually got out of Mormonism and came back to the Church.
People debate if Mormonism is a “cult” or not. I am not going there, except to say, “cults” are not necessarily whacky beliefs. “Cults” are about control.
Cults control your time, control what you read, control who your friends are and who your friends are not, cults control your money, they sometimes even control your vacation destinations or when you can take the vacation in the first place. Control, control, control.
Mary Kochan is an expert on this cult phenomenon. She has an audio series about Jehovah’s Witnesses where she deals with the whole cult issue not only as it pertains to the JWs, but also the cult issue in a general sense too.
So even though Mormonism is not the JW religion, Kochan’s audios would be worth listening to (CDs here, and the MP3 download right here if you want to get them immediately and begin listening tonight).
Lot’s of manipulation techniques in a cult. Kochan on one talk (if I recall correctly as it has been a few years since I listened to her audios) talks about how a cult group would even peruse the newspaper obituaries and go send missionaries to the families homes while they are in their time of vulnerability.
Again I am not saying either way here if I think Mormonism is a cult or is not a cult. All that I’m suggesting is you be aware of the techniques and you will see them on display for yourself within the Mormon structure, or you will be reassured that it is not a cult.
Either way, teach yourself about this cult theme in general.
I’ll stick around this thread for a few more days if you have any follow-up.
God bless.
Cathoholic
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Marie5890
Guest
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Janderich
Guest
BlessedLDS, This is an amazing story. I can’t imagine how hard it was to be baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Just to let you know, I have been on this site for probably two years. I don’t comment much because it seems the discussion usually leads to contention. None of the arguments have shaken my faith in the least, in fact, they have only led me to understand better the way to God. I wish you the best in your spiritual walk.
Stephen168
New member
When my brother joined the Mormon Church, I asked him what was the philosophical or theological reasons that attracted him to Mormonism. He was never able to answer that question until the day he died. I will be surprised if BlessedLDS can either.
I think that was the attraction for my brother. While my sister thought it was the anti-Catholic roots of Mormonism which she equated to his rejection of his Catholic family. We will never know for sure. I do know that Mormonism never helped him save any of his three marriages or stop him from smoking (which was most probably the cause of his early death.)
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Eh, what I see is someone who thought suicide was a good solution now thinking Mormonism is a good solution. We all delude ourselves, and culpability isn’t always clear. Spiritual suicide is as fraught with emotional and psychological issues as physical suicide.
Compassion, mercy, prayer. Not necessarily in that order.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
I do think joining up with Smith’s group is a better option than suicide. (Unlike some of your Mormon leaders who have stated it is better to die than sin.) But, the future for many Mormons is atheism, so, it is a sad victory.
Someone who runs on emotion is going to find a hard row in your group. When the up goes down, the Mormon answer is something is wrong with you and God has left the building. Zantac blocks the Mormon Holy Spirit, aka burning in the bosom. Good luck with that.
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BlessedLDS
Guest
Hi Steve, Thanks for the question. It is something I think about and have thought about. It really came to the point of I noticed a change not just in emotion, but how I was acting, I became a better person. I prayed more. And yes, at first I thought the entire story of Joseph Smith was crazy. I mean, it does sound ridiculous. As I have told my friends, I have no empirical evidence to prove that the Book of Mormon is what it says it is. I don’t. Though after reading it, praying about it, and noticing how much of a better person I had become, I came to the conclusion Joseph Smith was a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is what it says it is.
When I joined it was purely emotional. It was a Paschal Wager. But now I’ve do have a “testimony” of many of the Church’s beliefs (though don’t tell President Monson, I still pray to the Blessed Mother).
S
SteveVH
Guest
Thanks for your honest answer, it is much appreciated.
Interior “feelings” can come from many different places. We experience this is in the Catholic Church as well. I cannot express the peace and joy I find after confessing my sins, being absolved from them, and then entering into that one-flesh union with Jesus in the Eucharist. Do I have a “testimony”? Absolutely.
But we also have a process of discernment when we are considering whether or not something we “feel” is from God. There are many voices out there whispering in our ear. We have the voice of our own desires; what we wish to be true. We have the voice of pride; I have gone this far, I don’t want to be wrong. We have the voice of emptiness, desiring to be filled. And, we also have the voice of the enemy who prowls about the world seeking whom he may devour. It is not a scary, or frightening voice, but rather one that sounds rather inviting, playing off of our physical, psychological and spiritual needs. He can appear as an angel of light, both exteriorly and interiorly. We must discern the voice of God from all of the other voices.
Do you have a process of discernment in order to be sure that the “testimony” you have received is actually the voice of the Holy Spirit?
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NeuroTypical
Guest
Hi Blessed,
As you go about interacting with folks here on this board, you might want to read some of the other threads on my church this site has to offer. Like these:
Mormons search the web and find doubt
Mormon Prophets & Revelations
They have lots of critical links for you to bounce your testimony off of, and also you can experience the tone they carry with them as they interact with people like me.
Are you going to watch General Conference this weekend? If 8-10 hours of church in a single weekend doesn’t scare you away from my church, I don’t know what would.
As you go about interacting with folks here on this board, you might want to read some of the other threads on my church this site has to offer. Like these:
Mormons search the web and find doubt
Mormon Prophets & Revelations
They have lots of critical links for you to bounce your testimony off of, and also you can experience the tone they carry with them as they interact with people like me.
Are you going to watch General Conference this weekend? If 8-10 hours of church in a single weekend doesn’t scare you away from my church, I don’t know what would.
T
TexanKnight
Guest
then, for goodness sakes, if you like it, do not EVER look at the lack of evidence, the lack of scientific, geographic, archaeological evidence…in fact, all those point to what it is…a fraud. Do not look at js’ history, his con man conviction, his lies, his adultry, and his ego.
Do not ever…
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SalesianSDB
Guest
Thanks everyone for your help
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LivingWaters7
Guest
Hi BlessedLDS,
Since it seems as if we’re sharing threads, perhaps you might also be interested in reading some things in the following threads:
The Allure of Mormonism-Get Under the Surface
Former Mormon Letter to a CES Director-Great Resource
Mormonism: Restoration of Ancient Christian Church?
Naturally, you’ll have Catholic posters attempting to convince you to come back to Catholicism, and LDS posters congratulating you on deciding to become LDS (have you been baptized?). Similar dynamics occur on LDS forums, Evangelical forums, Hindu forums, etc. Further, you’ll find that members of a “guest religion” on a forum (such as LDS posters here, or Catholic posters over at Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board) will often feel that critical posts against their religion are negative and have a “tone” that is offensive. I certainly found such to be the case over at MDDB when Catholicism comes up. Now, I do believe that some posters here are a bit more…divisive than necessary, however it’s up to you to read and make your own conclusions.
I’m afraid I’m not following your logic. So, after you read the Book of Mormon, and prayed about it, you realized that you were becoming a better person, so you concluded that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be? I’m not sure that logically follows unfortunately. Many Muslim converts will claim that the Qur’an made them a better person, their addiction to alcohol stopped after practicing the principles of Islam, etc, and Muhammad was therefore a true prophet and the Qur’an a true text of the word of God. So, I do hope that you will do some more in depth research into your new faith.
I personally converted to the LDS faith after being Catholic all my life prior. I was very active in the LDS church, attended all 3 hours of meetings every Sunday (plus linger longers), went to ward FHE, exercised the priesthood (I blessed or passed the Sacrament every week, and was in charge of it for some time, gave blessings, Confirmed someone, set people apart in callings, home teaching, etc), attended the temple regularly (I attended all ward baptisms for the dead trips, then after I was Endowed, I attended the temple once a week for a couple months, then slowed down to at least once a month once I had the “hang” of it. I helped in administering proxy baptisms and confirmations, did proxy Initiatories, Endowments, and sealings), and served in various callings, including Elders Quorum President for the ward. I say all of that just to give you a background of how much I lived and breathed being LDS for a number of years, and loved every moment. I missed certain things about Catholicism, but nothing that made me want to go back.
But after awhile, I began to think more about things that I had put up on the mental shelf for some time. These are things that the missionaries didn’t really have a good answer, and weren’t really things that were talked about in church meetings anyway, at least not in any detail where I could actually understand them. Things such as:
-the Priesthood Restriction preventing Black males from being ordained to the priesthood, as well as Black males and females from entering the temple, until 1978.
-The radical difference in the functioning of prophets after Joseph Smith
-The Temple Endowment and Freemasonry, as well as understanding changes to ordinances (and how that contradicted apologetic arguments against things like pouring baptism.
-Entertaining the belief that God the Father was once a man that progressed to Godhood, in contrast to the Catholic view that God has always been God, never had to learn to become God, and never was not-God. The belief in the progression of God from man to God cannot be entertained in Catholicism, yet it can be in Mormonism, and has been taught by various LDS prophets, including Joseph Smith.
As much as I loved being LDS, the culture, all of the activities, opportunities to look after each other (at least opportunities that you were “voluntold” to do), emphasis on scripture study, etc, the more I read and thought about it (from both sides), the more I came to realize that the LDS faith really wasn’t what it claimed to be, at least in my view. The prophets (all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators) don’t prophesy, see, nor reveal anything. They don’t function like the Biblical prophets, let alone like Joseph Smith. If you watch General Conference this weekend, you’ll have a chance to listen to all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators speak. They won’t tell you anything new (so much for continuing revelation for the Church). The “open canon” of scripture no longer expands. Gone are the days of canonized revelations, visions, angelic ministrations, etc. The last update, the “official declaration” opening the priesthood to all people, instead of restricting blacks, isn’t even a revelation. It’s merely a declaration that a revelation was received, in 1978. The Book of Mormon has yet to be substantiated as a real, historical account. Sure, there are apologists proclaiming how it fits in Mesoamerica (a book, Mormon’s Codex, recently came out on the matter). But there are also other apologists claiming that it happened elsewhere. The Church itself says nothing and has no opinion.
Since it seems as if we’re sharing threads, perhaps you might also be interested in reading some things in the following threads:
The Allure of Mormonism-Get Under the Surface
Former Mormon Letter to a CES Director-Great Resource
Mormonism: Restoration of Ancient Christian Church?
Naturally, you’ll have Catholic posters attempting to convince you to come back to Catholicism, and LDS posters congratulating you on deciding to become LDS (have you been baptized?). Similar dynamics occur on LDS forums, Evangelical forums, Hindu forums, etc. Further, you’ll find that members of a “guest religion” on a forum (such as LDS posters here, or Catholic posters over at Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board) will often feel that critical posts against their religion are negative and have a “tone” that is offensive. I certainly found such to be the case over at MDDB when Catholicism comes up. Now, I do believe that some posters here are a bit more…divisive than necessary, however it’s up to you to read and make your own conclusions.
I’m afraid I’m not following your logic. So, after you read the Book of Mormon, and prayed about it, you realized that you were becoming a better person, so you concluded that Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be? I’m not sure that logically follows unfortunately. Many Muslim converts will claim that the Qur’an made them a better person, their addiction to alcohol stopped after practicing the principles of Islam, etc, and Muhammad was therefore a true prophet and the Qur’an a true text of the word of God. So, I do hope that you will do some more in depth research into your new faith.
I personally converted to the LDS faith after being Catholic all my life prior. I was very active in the LDS church, attended all 3 hours of meetings every Sunday (plus linger longers), went to ward FHE, exercised the priesthood (I blessed or passed the Sacrament every week, and was in charge of it for some time, gave blessings, Confirmed someone, set people apart in callings, home teaching, etc), attended the temple regularly (I attended all ward baptisms for the dead trips, then after I was Endowed, I attended the temple once a week for a couple months, then slowed down to at least once a month once I had the “hang” of it. I helped in administering proxy baptisms and confirmations, did proxy Initiatories, Endowments, and sealings), and served in various callings, including Elders Quorum President for the ward. I say all of that just to give you a background of how much I lived and breathed being LDS for a number of years, and loved every moment. I missed certain things about Catholicism, but nothing that made me want to go back.
But after awhile, I began to think more about things that I had put up on the mental shelf for some time. These are things that the missionaries didn’t really have a good answer, and weren’t really things that were talked about in church meetings anyway, at least not in any detail where I could actually understand them. Things such as:
-the Priesthood Restriction preventing Black males from being ordained to the priesthood, as well as Black males and females from entering the temple, until 1978.
-The radical difference in the functioning of prophets after Joseph Smith
-The Temple Endowment and Freemasonry, as well as understanding changes to ordinances (and how that contradicted apologetic arguments against things like pouring baptism.
-Entertaining the belief that God the Father was once a man that progressed to Godhood, in contrast to the Catholic view that God has always been God, never had to learn to become God, and never was not-God. The belief in the progression of God from man to God cannot be entertained in Catholicism, yet it can be in Mormonism, and has been taught by various LDS prophets, including Joseph Smith.
As much as I loved being LDS, the culture, all of the activities, opportunities to look after each other (at least opportunities that you were “voluntold” to do), emphasis on scripture study, etc, the more I read and thought about it (from both sides), the more I came to realize that the LDS faith really wasn’t what it claimed to be, at least in my view. The prophets (all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators) don’t prophesy, see, nor reveal anything. They don’t function like the Biblical prophets, let alone like Joseph Smith. If you watch General Conference this weekend, you’ll have a chance to listen to all 15 prophets, seers, and revelators speak. They won’t tell you anything new (so much for continuing revelation for the Church). The “open canon” of scripture no longer expands. Gone are the days of canonized revelations, visions, angelic ministrations, etc. The last update, the “official declaration” opening the priesthood to all people, instead of restricting blacks, isn’t even a revelation. It’s merely a declaration that a revelation was received, in 1978. The Book of Mormon has yet to be substantiated as a real, historical account. Sure, there are apologists proclaiming how it fits in Mesoamerica (a book, Mormon’s Codex, recently came out on the matter). But there are also other apologists claiming that it happened elsewhere. The Church itself says nothing and has no opinion.
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