Friend spending the night

[CrystalMayner66]

I have a friend who’s traveling and is going to stop by and visit.

I’m male and she is female.

In any case, she would need to stay the night.

Some relevant details: First, this is my parents’ house, so we wouldn’t have the place to ourselves (I don’t own my own apartment.) Second, I’d sleep in the family room, and she would take my room—no sleeping in the same bed.

But I’m unsure whether I’d be committing a sin or not even under these circumstances. Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated!

Intrinsically it is perfectly fine. What you must answer for yourself is whether that would be a near occasion of sin for you.

catholicessentials.net/occasionsofsin.htm

 

[Sky_River]

No, I don’t.

If a couple is immature enough to where they can’t trust themselves with each other behind closed doors, then they should avoid such circumstances.

If a couple is mature, then I don’t see a problem. There are times when options are limited by circumstances. I don’t see why a couple should pay for 2 expensive hotel rooms for the night when they can get 1 for half of the price. If they can’t trust each other in that situation, then there is no trust in any situation.

And often times, evil is in the eye of the beholder. What should be no business of others should also not be a cause for scandal or gossip.

Our actions shouldn’t give certain impressions to others.

 

[DarkLight]

Our actions shouldn’t give certain impressions to others.

I’d be careful with this. From my experience, gossips are going to gossip. I could go out for a perfectly chaste dinner with a member of the opposite sex, remain in public the whole time, and I know plenty of people who would still get the wrong impression. I also know plenty of people who I could have a man stay the night at my place and would not get any ideas.

 

[Sky_River]

I’d be careful with this. From my experience, gossips are going to gossip. I could go out for a perfectly chaste dinner with a member of the opposite sex, remain in public the whole time, and I know plenty of people who would still get the wrong impression. I also know plenty of people who I could have a man stay the night at my place and would not get any ideas.

Consider this: Would you allow another man sleep next to your girlfriend or wife? Of course not. No matter how they defend or justify it, you would maintain that is is inappropriate. And that’s what I’m trying to get at: It’s not as much about what kind of physically boundaries we can cross as much as it is about what are we saying about the marriage commitment when we stay in one room.

acem.ca/en/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=336:should-dating-or-engaged-couples-travel-together&tmpl=component&print=1&Itemid=65

 

[DarkLight]

Sleeping next to someone, and sleeping is the same house, are hardly equivalent.

 

[DarkLight]

I’ll be honest, what’s strange to me is that I’ve never heard anyone who wasn’t a fairly conservative Christian (and not a recent convert) assume that two people who stayed in the same place were sleeping together - at least not if they hadn’t already made that assumption. They’re much more likely to assume a boyfriend and girlfriend are sleeping together, but even then I’ve found this is a defeasible assumption based on what they know of the couple.

The assumption that an otherwise chaste couple would now be sleeping together in virtue of spending the night just doesn’t seem to be that common, especially if they were in separate rooms.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I’ll be honest, what’s strange to me is that I’ve never heard anyone who wasn’t a fairly conservative Christian (and not a recent convert) assume that two people who stayed in the same place were sleeping together - at least not if they hadn’t already made that assumption. They’re much more likely to assume a boyfriend and girlfriend are sleeping together, but even then I’ve found this is a defeasible assumption based on what they know of the couple.

It’s interesting how many conservative Christians claim to be disgusted by “the secular culture sexualizing everything” yet they too often sexualize what are not inherently sexual activities such as sleeping in the same building. Or even spending any more than 5 minutes “alone” together without a chaperone. Yet as I mentioned before, even the Duggars and Bates have no problem with a significant other staying in the same house, as long as there are chaperones around.

There was even a recent “Bringing Up Bates” episode titled “Bobby’s Moving In” though I do suspect the company promoting the show chose this slightly scandalous title, not the Bates themselves. Bobby didn’t actually move in with the Bates, he just moved to the same town as the Bates daughter he is courting.

The assumption that an otherwise chaste couple would now be sleeping together in virtue of spending the night just doesn’t seem to be that common, especially if they were in separate rooms.

I think there is more of an understanding in secular culture that just because a man and woman spend time alone together doesn’t mean they’re having sex. Indeed, even couples who ARE “living in sin” aren’t usually having sex every single night, no more than married couples - and I’ve read stats that married couples actually are more frequent about sex on average than non-married ones.

All that being said, I don’t think the issue is just about “how far can you go before you fall into sexual sin”, I think you could certainly make a case that sleeping in the same bed together is way too far to go in terms of emotional closeness than a couple who isn’t married should go.

Ironically, I also think this is the case for courting models that demand the courting couple become great friends with the parents and siblings of their intended, I think this can also lead to premature emotional intimacy, and put pressure on the young couple to continue the courtship into engagement and marriage, just so they won’t disappoint all the family members involved.

I’ve even seen courting literature recommend the young men to “court her father first” and that’s squicky in a lot of ways. It seems much of the “court her father” advice is based not just on the idea that the father is a gatekeeper who filters out men who are obviously not good marriage material, but on the patriarchal assumption that “if her father likes you, he’ll justly use his parental influence and authority over her to make her accept you” as if the actual preferences of the woman herself are irrelevant, and she’s just a piece of chattel to be given by the father to her husband.

It strikes me as similar to someone who has children, introducing them to potential suitors way too early in the relationship.

 

[Sky_River]

Sleeping next to someone, and sleeping is the same house, are hardly equivalent.

You don’t agree with this claim?

When you stay in a room together before marriage, you are attempting to enjoy the benefits of marriage without the commitment of marriage.

Appearance of evil to me means something looks bad, and has a semblance of it, not just what others think.

 

[DarkLight]

You don’t agree with this claim?

Appearance of evil to me means something looks bad, and has a semblance of it, not just what others think.

I feel like there’s at least 3 different things going on here:

(1) Sleeping “next to each other” - which I would consider to mean in the same bed or something similar.

(2) Sleeping in the same room.

(3) Sleeping in the same house or apartment

I think it’s disingenuous to conflate these. What’s being discussed in OP is (3) - unmarried friends of the opposite sex staying in the same house. I don’t see any appearance of evil in that, except to someone unusually suspicious.

 

[Sky_River]

I feel like there’s at least 3 different things going on here:

(1) Sleeping “next to each other” - which I would consider to mean in the same bed or something similar.

(2) Sleeping in the same room.

(3) Sleeping in the same house or apartment

**I think it’s disingenuous to conflate these. ** What’s being discussed in OP is (3) - unmarried friends of the opposite sex staying in the same house. I don’t see any appearance of evil in that, except to someone unusually suspicious.

Even the first two?

Would you say the way we are designed for sexuality is why there is an appearence of evil in those situations? Staying up in the same room at night, falling asleep in the same room during the day, seems different to me.

 

[Sky_River]

I feel like there’s at least 3 different things going on here:

(1) Sleeping “next to each other” - which I would consider to mean in the same bed or something similar.

(2) Sleeping in the same room.

(3) Sleeping in the same house or apartment

I think it’s disingenuous to conflate these. What’s being discussed in OP is (3) - unmarried friends of the opposite sex staying in the same house. I don’t see any appearance of evil in that, except to someone unusually suspicious.

Isn’t sex also done during the day?

 

[UbiCaritas]

I feel like there’s at least 3 different things going on here:

(1) Sleeping “next to each other” - which I would consider to mean in the same bed or something similar.

(2) Sleeping in the same room.

(3) Sleeping in the same house or apartment

I think it’s disingenuous to conflate these. What’s being discussed in OP is (3) - unmarried friends of the opposite sex staying in the same house. I don’t see any appearance of evil in that, except to someone unusually suspicious.

And at that, they aren’t even staying in separate rooms but alone together in the same house–the OP’s parents would be there.

When DH and I were dating and engaged, I’d stay at his parents’ house when we’d go and visit, as would he. I’d have my own room, and he’d bunk with his brothers. Between the half-dozen younger siblings around at any given time plus the parents…believe you me, even if we wanted to (and we didn’t), nothing would have happened. No doubt someone could turn this into a Scaaaaandalous Situation, but I’d have no qualms about my daughter doing the same thing in the same circumstances.

 

[Sky_River]

No, I don’t.

**If a couple is immature enough to where they can’t trust themselves with each other behind closed doors, then they should avoid such circumstances.
**
If a couple is mature, then I don’t see a problem. There are times when options are limited by circumstances. I don’t see why a couple should pay for 2 expensive hotel rooms for the night when they can get 1 for half of the price. If they can’t trust each other in that situation, then there is no trust in any situation.

And often times, evil is in the eye of the beholder. What should be no business of others should also not be a cause for scandal or gossip.

The issue is about appropriateness, not would they have sex.

 

[Tim_D]

The issue is about appropriateness, not would they have sex.

And what is “appropriateness?” How far do you want to take it?

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I have a friend who’s traveling and is going to stop by and visit.

I’m male and she is female.

In any case, she would need to stay the night.

Some relevant details: First, this is my parents’ house, so we wouldn’t have the place to ourselves (I don’t own my own apartment.) Second, I’d sleep in the family room, and she would take my room—no sleeping in the same bed.

But I’m unsure whether I’d be committing a sin or not even under these circumstances. Any (name removed by moderator)ut would be appreciated!

There is nothing wrong with hospitality, man. People need places to sleep, even girls. You offering her a free place to sleep is fine. In fact I would think it was weird if you insisted she get a hotel. You said she is a friend. I am sure you aren’t going to be a creep.

 

[Sky_River]

There is nothing wrong with hospitality, man. People need places to sleep, even girls. You offering her a free place to sleep is fine. In fact I would think it was weird if you insisted she get a hotel. You said she is a friend. I am sure you aren’t going to be a creep.

psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201609/why-we-make-love-night

Most people make love when they go to bed, which is usually at night.1 “Sleeping with” someone has thus become a synonym for having sex.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201609/why-we-make-love-night

The op was very clearly referring to inviting this girl to sleep in the same house. A house in which his parents are present nonetheless. Not to “sleep together” in the same bed or even the same room. I really don’t know why you are insisting this is not the case, or that we don’t know what the euphemism “sleep together” means. It does not apply here. And if anyone took “scandal” from such an innocuous gesture well, that is their problem, not his. You can’t run your life around the whims of busy-bodies and gossips.

 

[Sky_River]

The op was very clearly referring to inviting this girl to sleep in the same house. A house in which his parents are present nonetheless.** Not to “sleep together” in the same bed or even the same room.** I really don’t know why you are insisting this is not the case, or that we don’t know what the euphemism “sleep together” means. It does not apply here. And if anyone took “scandal” from such an innocuous gesture well, that is their problem, not his. You can’t run your life around the whims of busy-bodies and gossips.

You agree that is inappropriate?