B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
But you sometimes have to suffer them. That is quite literally the way of the Cross, is it not?
- Status
S
sparkle
Guest
Anna Elizabeth:
Anna- my husband really doesn’t have a clue as to how his Mom has bullied me. I’ve told him, yes, but he still feels, “Man you and my mom have a problem”…but of course it doesn’t concern him. He doesn’t see it as HIS issue. Even though counselors have told him so. We’re in counseling now, but for some other more pressing issues, but I do think it must get back to this issue real soon. Any suggestions on how I should deal with it NOW?
Appreciate your insight!!
Hi Anna: Well, how do wives “get around a weak and traitorous husband”? What do you suggest we wives do, who do have a weak husband, who is a total victim of “Momism”–who has been bullied and put down by his Mom, who just cannot/will not or has a hard time to stand up to her and be a man and defend his wife? What should wives do then Anna? I wish I knew. Us wives, have had to face our ground, to be the ones to say “NO”–enough is enough–that NO–it’s not OK that you drop over without calling, that you cannot barge in our household anytime you feel like it and give criticism, etc. That well, it’s just NOT O.K.I have heard some good suggestions in these posts, especially the ones that suggest being super-gracious (but that’s almost like a game - good maybe short term, but that’s all), and the ones that suggest that the husband get with it.
It’s the latter suggestion on which I’d like to comment. Do you realize how many posts ignore the husband’s responsiblility and again how many kindly suggest that the husband get involved? Only one or two demand that the husband act like a married man and protect his wife, to say nothing of the responsibility he owes to his children! This seems to me to be little better than a litany of ideas to get around one more weak and traitorous husband.
If I found that any of my sons failed to defend their wives in the face of such abuse, I would collect whatever influence I still have with them and “let them have it.” I am truly wondering about this husband; is he getting something out of this?
I know first hand the damage that situations like this can bring if not nipped in the bud, and this one has gone on too long already.
Anna
Anna- my husband really doesn’t have a clue as to how his Mom has bullied me. I’ve told him, yes, but he still feels, “Man you and my mom have a problem”…but of course it doesn’t concern him. He doesn’t see it as HIS issue. Even though counselors have told him so. We’re in counseling now, but for some other more pressing issues, but I do think it must get back to this issue real soon. Any suggestions on how I should deal with it NOW?
Appreciate your insight!!
M
monica_fan
Guest
Yes, and after talking to Sparkle over PMessaging, I can understand the problem there.
If he can’t do it, then she has to. She’s perfectly capable of it because she is an adult Christian who can speak for herself.
Anna Elizabeth:
If he can’t do it, then she has to. She’s perfectly capable of it because she is an adult Christian who can speak for herself.
Anna Elizabeth:
It’s the latter suggestion on which I’d like to comment. Do you realize how many posts ignore the husband’s responsiblility and again how many kindly suggest that the husband get involved? Only one or two demand that the husband act like a married man and protect his wife, to say nothing of the responsibility he owes to his children! This seems to me to be little better than a litany of ideas to get around one more weak and traitorous husband.
If I found that any of my sons failed to defend their wives in the face of such abuse, I would collect whatever influence I still have with them and “let them have it.” I am truly wondering about this husband; is he getting something out of this?
I know first hand the damage that situations like this can bring if not nipped in the bud, and this one has gone on too long already.
Anna
B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
Anna Elizabeth:
But what I learned over the years was that the teacher in question hated her job. She didn’t want to be a teacher, but she felt when she went to college that it was better than her other alternatives: nurse, librarian, secretary, etc. She was a very unhappy woman who felt trapped in her job and knew that almost no one liked her. But you know, she had her good points, and when we talked, she relaxed a bit. She still drove everyone nuts, but she smiled just a little more.
Since then, I have found that people who are hard to get along with respond to good treatment first with cynicism (and sometimes with a little extra venom even), then with wariness and disbelief, and then with a kind of relief. Finally, they have found someone who can have some affection for them without a change on their part. I can literally see them relax when they see me coming. Now, that is my two-sided gift. I have a natural affection for people, but the downside is that I let some bad behavior slide. I’m trying to work on that. But the world really has more people out there pointing out faults than it has people who are willing to give some affection in spite of them. If you can have a little compassion and a little affection for the silliness of people who carry all that nastiness around, you can make a difference. If not, well, that’s not your gift. If it is harder for you to refrain from belting them than it is for me to be nice to them, I think you’ve done your part by not leaving them with a split lip.
(When difficult people ask me “Why are you so nice to me?” and I tell them teasingly, “And why wouldn’t I be? What are you, chopped liver?” They usually don’t argue with that.)
Yes and no. Let me tell you a story. When I graduated from grade school, the teacher nobody liked walked up to me and told me she’d enjoyed me and that she’d miss me. When she walked off, the principal turned to me and said, “How can you stand her? She drives me nuts!” I said, “Well, one year for Lent, I decided to be nice to her, because she’s so hard to be nice to. And, well, it just got to be a habit.” (I thought the principal would die laughing.)
But what I learned over the years was that the teacher in question hated her job. She didn’t want to be a teacher, but she felt when she went to college that it was better than her other alternatives: nurse, librarian, secretary, etc. She was a very unhappy woman who felt trapped in her job and knew that almost no one liked her. But you know, she had her good points, and when we talked, she relaxed a bit. She still drove everyone nuts, but she smiled just a little more.
Since then, I have found that people who are hard to get along with respond to good treatment first with cynicism (and sometimes with a little extra venom even), then with wariness and disbelief, and then with a kind of relief. Finally, they have found someone who can have some affection for them without a change on their part. I can literally see them relax when they see me coming. Now, that is my two-sided gift. I have a natural affection for people, but the downside is that I let some bad behavior slide. I’m trying to work on that. But the world really has more people out there pointing out faults than it has people who are willing to give some affection in spite of them. If you can have a little compassion and a little affection for the silliness of people who carry all that nastiness around, you can make a difference. If not, well, that’s not your gift. If it is harder for you to refrain from belting them than it is for me to be nice to them, I think you’ve done your part by not leaving them with a split lip.
(When difficult people ask me “Why are you so nice to me?” and I tell them teasingly, “And why wouldn’t I be? What are you, chopped liver?” They usually don’t argue with that.)
M
monica_fan
Guest
You make some great points, as usual Oregon. Your response makes me think of a talk I had with my hate-filled dil. She (who is a psychologist) once said, "everyone (she was speaking of herself) hates themselves and their lives. I told her that I didn’t believe that was so and I don’t hate her, I loved her. I should have stopped there because I could see she was getting angrier but I thought my next statement would help. I then told her that God loved her very much. She flew into a rage and told me never to speak to her of God again. My son had asked me to help her and I tried, but I believe she is afraid of love and pushes it away and can’t trust people. How do you love someone who doesn’t respond to love?
I’ve always been able to find the good in people and find a way to get along with them. Friends have always told me that I always get stuck with the hard cases. Her case is the hardest I have ever encountered, and it certainly doesn’t help being the mother in law. Everything I do is wrong in her eyes. For the first time in my life, I’m at a loss as to what to do regarding her. I always thought I was like you in finding the good in people and considered it my gift from God. But she’s made me doubt that is so.
You are so right that the world has plenty of people pointing out faults. It’s so much better to get (most) people to change by pointing out their good points and by giving them confidence in themselves.
P.S. I love the story about your teacher.
P.P.S. I really must get ready for my company!!
BLB_Oregon:
I’ve always been able to find the good in people and find a way to get along with them. Friends have always told me that I always get stuck with the hard cases. Her case is the hardest I have ever encountered, and it certainly doesn’t help being the mother in law. Everything I do is wrong in her eyes. For the first time in my life, I’m at a loss as to what to do regarding her. I always thought I was like you in finding the good in people and considered it my gift from God. But she’s made me doubt that is so.
You are so right that the world has plenty of people pointing out faults. It’s so much better to get (most) people to change by pointing out their good points and by giving them confidence in themselves.
P.S. I love the story about your teacher.
P.P.S. I really must get ready for my company!!
B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
monica fan:
As for what to do about your DIL, remember that you are responsible for your actions, but not the results. We don’t melt hearts; God does. And in his own time.
Don’t get me wrong, though. When somebody comes in and starts messing with my little tea party or when* I* haven’t had enough sleep or run short on time, my “natural gift” sometimes evaporates!
As for what to do about your DIL, remember that you are responsible for your actions, but not the results. We don’t melt hearts; God does. And in his own time.
S
St.Catherine
Guest
Sparkle,
If your mean MIL knows that you are in couples counseling she might act even worse. Dr. Phil had a woman and her daughter in law on once and the MIL said that she would be delighted if they got divorced. The husband still sided with HIS mother.
Dr. Phil couldn’t believe the brashness of this woman. She simply would not take any responsibility for her bad behavior. He was even more mad at the husband who thought that his Mom was “right”. EEK. Sadly, there was no resolution. Other than Dr. Phil telling the MIL if she can’t keep her mouth shut she can’t come to their house. This pansy husband would even run over to his Mommy’s house when he would have a fight with his wife. He stated that his Mommy was his best friend. EEK.
If you do the dessert thing you can’t just kick her out of your house. I guess you can say, “I’m not going to take your abuse anymore, I’m going to bed. Good night.” Then tell your hubby (privately) he is responsible for all baths, teeth brushing, cleaning the house, doing the dishes, and putting the kids to bed. Or if you plan to go to midnight mass you can just leave early and get a really great seat!
Good Luck.
If your mean MIL knows that you are in couples counseling she might act even worse. Dr. Phil had a woman and her daughter in law on once and the MIL said that she would be delighted if they got divorced. The husband still sided with HIS mother.
Dr. Phil couldn’t believe the brashness of this woman. She simply would not take any responsibility for her bad behavior. He was even more mad at the husband who thought that his Mom was “right”. EEK. Sadly, there was no resolution. Other than Dr. Phil telling the MIL if she can’t keep her mouth shut she can’t come to their house. This pansy husband would even run over to his Mommy’s house when he would have a fight with his wife. He stated that his Mommy was his best friend. EEK.
If you do the dessert thing you can’t just kick her out of your house. I guess you can say, “I’m not going to take your abuse anymore, I’m going to bed. Good night.” Then tell your hubby (privately) he is responsible for all baths, teeth brushing, cleaning the house, doing the dishes, and putting the kids to bed. Or if you plan to go to midnight mass you can just leave early and get a really great seat!
Good Luck.
S
SP38
Guest
I like the “take 2 cars” approach. Also, bring along some headphones or earbuds and play some lovely Christmas music to yourself. And sing out loud or hum. Humming is annoying!
One thing I’ve heard suggested is when someone says something rude or outrageous just laugh out loud like you can’t believe they said something so (stupid, rude, obnoxious), even repeating it outloud and saying you can’t believe it.
"OH! HAha, I can’t believe you said I need to get a job! Woo! That’s a good one! Ha hahah. Isn’t that funny honey?! Like taking care of you and the kids is not a job! "
And loud enough for everyone around to hear.
(I personally probably just wouldn’t go.
Why subject yourself to such meanness.)
One thing I’ve heard suggested is when someone says something rude or outrageous just laugh out loud like you can’t believe they said something so (stupid, rude, obnoxious), even repeating it outloud and saying you can’t believe it.
"OH! HAha, I can’t believe you said I need to get a job! Woo! That’s a good one! Ha hahah. Isn’t that funny honey?! Like taking care of you and the kids is not a job! "
And loud enough for everyone around to hear.
(I personally probably just wouldn’t go.
Why subject yourself to such meanness.)
L
Lilyofthevalley
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyofthevalley
Sparrkle is a good Christian, however being a good Christian does not mean one should be a door mat to abusive people.
But you sometimes have to suffer them. That is quite literally the way of the Cross, is it not?
No, one does not have to suffer abusive people. There are plenty of natural crosses(illness, things we can’t control) to bare. Of course this is only my opinion, but being a good Christian does NOT entail subjicatingsp oneself to abuse. We are Christians not door mats.
I will give an example, there is this “friend” of my parents. My dad is dead but this woman was a friend of my dad’s and is still friends with my mom.Anyway, about 9 years ago when my son was a baby this lady thought it was funny to blow smoke in near him and watch me get upset. She also told me I was turning my son into a “pussy like his father” by not feeding him ice cold formula.
So, fast forward ten years later and my mom tells me this lady wants me to visit her with my children with some sympathy plea involved. I explained to her no I will not. She(the friend) is plainly evil and I will not go out of my way to entertain evil.
S
SP38
Guest
Hi Sparkle,
Please dont take this the wrong way, but do you think your husband thinks you are anything like his mom? You sound like a strong person, but not in the same sense that his mom is the pants wearer. Maybe he does expect you to handle it because his mom always 'handles" everything. And that’s what he’s accustom to. ???
B
BLB_Oregon
Guest
I do not mean that we should invite abuse or act as if abuse is not what it is. After all, our Lord did say, “But if I speak the truth, why hit me?”
On the other hand, Our Lord’s cross and sacrificial death was literally provided by other people. Likewise, Sts. Stephen, Peter, and Paul and all the martyrs were given that kind of a cross to bear. There are times when your cross will be of that kind, when you are given the opportunity to respond to abuse in a merciful, gracious manner rather than a purely self-defensive manner. That can change people, and it is a witness. It is not the only way to go, but it is not the same as being a doormat. In some cases, though, staying out of the situation is the better course, if only as a means of removing a near occasion of sin for that person and perhaps even yourself.
These cases are not simple. They require prayer and careful discernment.
C
CARose
Guest
monica fan:
What a great conversation and perfect topic for the Holiday Season, when we are all tested with interactions with “challenging” family members and varying expectations.
I know what it’s like, although for now I won’t get into all the reasons why I can so appreciate the topic. What I want to add is that I strongly encourage you to follow the advice that suggests you use these challenges that come from God (for our marriages and their resultant families come from God, just as the spouses of our Children are sent to us from God, for truly, in the end, all comes from God). What’s funny is that as I was reading the thread, my first impulse was to say something vaguely along these lines, then I read BLB’s suggestion and cheered. I thought she hit it on the money with her suggestion that you “kill them with kindness”.
As you have found through your DIL, MonicaFan, God has given you an incredible gift of working with difficult people. Is it perhaps because he knew that you would need it, more than most might!
I believe he knew that you would need every bit of confidence in your ability, through Christ’s Love and mercy, and the power of the Gifts God has given you to glorify His name, to begin to open up to this most challenging person. I believe you raised a great kid in your son. If so, there must be some redeeming qualities to your DIL, even with the issues she has with family (which I believe began long before she even knew you existed). Perhaps it is your Love that is needed to help her understand what true Christian LOVE is and to help her grow to be the person she is meant to be. Perhaps you only get to plant a few seeds, for others to watch germinate.
But we don’t forgive only 3 times (as in the OT), or 7 times (per Christ’s first answer), rather we forgive 70, 7 times (and more if necessary). And this is what throws them for a loop. When they can’t figure out how we could possibly not blow up and yet we don’t. We don’t have a fit, we don’t respond “in kind” to their insults. This is how true conversions are won with the most difficult cases. This is the truest work of Christ, on the cross, asking His Father to forgive them, even as his wounds bled and he hung dying. Breathing must have been difficult by this time, and he found the energy to verbally request that God forgive his torturers, and all those who insisted that this crucifixion occur. He didn’t verbalize this request for His own benefit, He did so for ours, even as He hung dying, He continued to teach us Mercy.
I had started reading this thread when I returned to a chapter I was studying on St. Teresa of Avila (“The Way to Perfection”) and the Chapter I’m working on is Detachment from Self, and it speaks directly to this subject. Another text I’m studying also talks about the fact that we have been given our family by God, so when we find challenges there, we grow through accepting them.
I am NOT advocating being a doormat. But we can control our own reaction to situations. I know I just got through a Thanksgiving family get together and there were a couple of situations that really could have boiled my blood and yet I didn’t even feel any pain, I just observed the barb without the reaction. It’s great. I’ve finally, FINALLY begun to learn how to forgive in a real way. And believe me, this is not something I came by naturally. And, as a result of changing my response, my life is a ton better, as it is for those around me. I didn’t let some hurtful exchanges faze me.
Now, I think back on the event and chuckle that one person is in a fight with me all by herself. I’ve left the anger behind me, and I watch as she dances by herself.
…
Monica, Sparkle, BLB_Oregon, et al,
What a great conversation and perfect topic for the Holiday Season, when we are all tested with interactions with “challenging” family members and varying expectations.
I know what it’s like, although for now I won’t get into all the reasons why I can so appreciate the topic. What I want to add is that I strongly encourage you to follow the advice that suggests you use these challenges that come from God (for our marriages and their resultant families come from God, just as the spouses of our Children are sent to us from God, for truly, in the end, all comes from God). What’s funny is that as I was reading the thread, my first impulse was to say something vaguely along these lines, then I read BLB’s suggestion and cheered. I thought she hit it on the money with her suggestion that you “kill them with kindness”.
As you have found through your DIL, MonicaFan, God has given you an incredible gift of working with difficult people. Is it perhaps because he knew that you would need it, more than most might!
I believe he knew that you would need every bit of confidence in your ability, through Christ’s Love and mercy, and the power of the Gifts God has given you to glorify His name, to begin to open up to this most challenging person. I believe you raised a great kid in your son. If so, there must be some redeeming qualities to your DIL, even with the issues she has with family (which I believe began long before she even knew you existed). Perhaps it is your Love that is needed to help her understand what true Christian LOVE is and to help her grow to be the person she is meant to be. Perhaps you only get to plant a few seeds, for others to watch germinate.
But we don’t forgive only 3 times (as in the OT), or 7 times (per Christ’s first answer), rather we forgive 70, 7 times (and more if necessary). And this is what throws them for a loop. When they can’t figure out how we could possibly not blow up and yet we don’t. We don’t have a fit, we don’t respond “in kind” to their insults. This is how true conversions are won with the most difficult cases. This is the truest work of Christ, on the cross, asking His Father to forgive them, even as his wounds bled and he hung dying. Breathing must have been difficult by this time, and he found the energy to verbally request that God forgive his torturers, and all those who insisted that this crucifixion occur. He didn’t verbalize this request for His own benefit, He did so for ours, even as He hung dying, He continued to teach us Mercy.
I had started reading this thread when I returned to a chapter I was studying on St. Teresa of Avila (“The Way to Perfection”) and the Chapter I’m working on is Detachment from Self, and it speaks directly to this subject. Another text I’m studying also talks about the fact that we have been given our family by God, so when we find challenges there, we grow through accepting them.
I am NOT advocating being a doormat. But we can control our own reaction to situations. I know I just got through a Thanksgiving family get together and there were a couple of situations that really could have boiled my blood and yet I didn’t even feel any pain, I just observed the barb without the reaction. It’s great. I’ve finally, FINALLY begun to learn how to forgive in a real way. And believe me, this is not something I came by naturally. And, as a result of changing my response, my life is a ton better, as it is for those around me. I didn’t let some hurtful exchanges faze me.
Now, I think back on the event and chuckle that one person is in a fight with me all by herself. I’ve left the anger behind me, and I watch as she dances by herself.
…
C
CARose
Guest
Oh, but I did have to do some minor “advance work” with my daughter to free myself from the anxiety of “what might she do now”? In my case, the worse case scenario, from my perspective, would be for this person to share stories of my childhood/young adulthood that I have purposely chosen not to share with my 12 yr old daughter. She’s old enough I could tell her things I’ve done that I’m not proud of, but I don’t feel it would help her at this time, so I’ve chosen to stay quiet.
Last Spring, anxious that these historical “facts” could become weapons against me, I defused the situation by having a chat with my daughter. Rather than taking the preemptive strike and sharing from my perspective, but on a timeframe I didn’t want, I simply talked with her about the fact that my life hasn’t been a seemless story of good choices always being made. “I know you’re not perfect Mom” was my daughters response. We chatted some more, with my explaining my concern for the upcoming trip, and we’re done for now.
I’m far less worried that anything could be said that would permenantly damage my relationship with my daughter, and beyond that, I’m fine.
In my case, it’s my family where the trouble lies, so I don’t have the complicating fact of a husband who allows such behavior, but I also have my own challenges on that front. Love your husband as much as you loved him on the day you married. If you have to, fake it until it becomes a habit. Pretty soon you may even feel it as strongly and may find him responding.
Try reading “Facinating Womanhood”. You may Hate it, I know it goes against everything I learned about being a strong woman in today’s society. It’s Protestant, but you may find your husband being the strong husband you desire if you put some of it into action.
Good luck and God Bless,
CARose
Last Spring, anxious that these historical “facts” could become weapons against me, I defused the situation by having a chat with my daughter. Rather than taking the preemptive strike and sharing from my perspective, but on a timeframe I didn’t want, I simply talked with her about the fact that my life hasn’t been a seemless story of good choices always being made. “I know you’re not perfect Mom” was my daughters response. We chatted some more, with my explaining my concern for the upcoming trip, and we’re done for now.
I’m far less worried that anything could be said that would permenantly damage my relationship with my daughter, and beyond that, I’m fine.
In my case, it’s my family where the trouble lies, so I don’t have the complicating fact of a husband who allows such behavior, but I also have my own challenges on that front. Love your husband as much as you loved him on the day you married. If you have to, fake it until it becomes a habit. Pretty soon you may even feel it as strongly and may find him responding.
Try reading “Facinating Womanhood”. You may Hate it, I know it goes against everything I learned about being a strong woman in today’s society. It’s Protestant, but you may find your husband being the strong husband you desire if you put some of it into action.
Good luck and God Bless,
CARose
S
sparkle
Guest
So glad to see someone else knows this marvelous book. It has really made a difference in my life!!! Especially in the relationship with my husband!!!
P.S. I wouldn’t say the book is “Protestant” per say, or otherwise, matter of fact no religion or denom is even mentioned just written with common sense, wisdom, and good ol’ solid “Christian values”.
Take Care!!
M
monica_fan
Guest
Hello CaRose,
Thanks so much for your wonderful thoughts. I’ve always believed that the best way to love difficult people was to “kill them with kindness.” It always helped me in the past but this dil would have no part of it. I used to have confidence in this gift that God has given me but she’s turned everything upside down. The kinder I was to her the more horrid she was to me and my family. She thinks all Christians who love and forgive others are a bunch of phonies and weaklings. Don’t you think that some people delight in causing dissension? Do you think that gal at your Thanksgiving get together thrives on it? I like how you put it, “Now, I think back on the event and chuckle that one person is in a fight with me all by herself. I’ve left the anger behind me, and I watch as she dances by herself.” I think that works with maybe 95% of the population but when I stopped reacting to my dil’s hatefulness is when she decided I wasn’t worth it, told me I would never change so she wasn’t going to waste her time. She is proud that she has gotten many people to give up their faith and when I didn’t she decided to act as if I were dead. She even said that the world would be a better place if I weren’t in it.
I do have St. Teresa of Avila (“The Way to Perfection”) and will have to pull it out and study it. I’m at a loss as to how to proceed so maybe she will have something in there to help me. Right now I am just praying and waiting for guidance. I’d like it if you could tell us more about your experiences with difficult people.
CARose:
Thanks so much for your wonderful thoughts. I’ve always believed that the best way to love difficult people was to “kill them with kindness.” It always helped me in the past but this dil would have no part of it. I used to have confidence in this gift that God has given me but she’s turned everything upside down. The kinder I was to her the more horrid she was to me and my family. She thinks all Christians who love and forgive others are a bunch of phonies and weaklings. Don’t you think that some people delight in causing dissension? Do you think that gal at your Thanksgiving get together thrives on it? I like how you put it, “Now, I think back on the event and chuckle that one person is in a fight with me all by herself. I’ve left the anger behind me, and I watch as she dances by herself.” I think that works with maybe 95% of the population but when I stopped reacting to my dil’s hatefulness is when she decided I wasn’t worth it, told me I would never change so she wasn’t going to waste her time. She is proud that she has gotten many people to give up their faith and when I didn’t she decided to act as if I were dead. She even said that the world would be a better place if I weren’t in it.
I do have St. Teresa of Avila (“The Way to Perfection”) and will have to pull it out and study it. I’m at a loss as to how to proceed so maybe she will have something in there to help me. Right now I am just praying and waiting for guidance. I’d like it if you could tell us more about your experiences with difficult people.
you “kill them with kindness”.
As you have found through your DIL, MonicaFan, God has given you an incredible gift of working with difficult people. Is it perhaps because he knew that you would need it, more than most might!
I believe he knew that you would need every bit of confidence in your ability, through Christ’s Love and mercy, and the power of the Gifts God has given you to glorify His name, to begin to open up to this most challenging person. I believe you raised a great kid in your son. If so, there must be some redeeming qualities to your DIL, even with the issues she has with family (which I believe began long before she even knew you existed). Perhaps it is your Love that is needed to help her understand what true Christian LOVE is and to help her grow to be the person she is meant to be. Perhaps you only get to plant a few seeds, for others to watch germinate.
But we don’t forgive only 3 times (as in the OT), or 7 times (per Christ’s first answer), rather we forgive 70, 7 times (and more if necessary). And this is what throws them for a loop. When they can’t figure out how we could possibly not blow up and yet we don’t. We don’t have a fit, we don’t respond “in kind” to their insults. This is how true conversions are won with the most difficult cases. This is the truest work of Christ, on the cross, asking His Father to forgive them, even as his wounds bled and he hung dying. Breathing must have been difficult by this time, and he found the energy to verbally request that God forgive his torturers, and all those who insisted that this crucifixion occur. He didn’t verbalize this request for His own benefit, He did so for ours, even as He hung dying, He continued to teach us Mercy.
I had started reading this thread when I returned to a chapter I was studying on St. Teresa of Avila (“The Way to Perfection”) and the Chapter I’m working on is Detachment from Self, and it speaks directly to this subject. Another text I’m studying also talks about the fact that we have been given our family by God, so when we find challenges there, we grow through accepting them.
I am NOT advocating being a doormat. But we can control our own reaction to situations. I know I just got through a Thanksgiving family get together and there were a couple of situations that really could have boiled my blood and yet I didn’t even feel any pain, I just observed the barb without the reaction. It’s great. I’ve finally, FINALLY begun to learn how to forgive in a real way. And believe me, this is not something I came by naturally. And, as a result of changing my response, my life is a ton better, as it is for those around me. I didn’t let some hurtful exchanges faze me.
Now, I think back on the event and chuckle that one person is in a fight with me all by herself. I’ve left the anger behind me, and I watch as she dances by herself.
…
A
Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
sparkle, I’ll give this more thought, because I really don’t know what to suggest, especially without knowing more about your family.
One thing, I’ll bet: Those other “more pressing issues” are intimately related to the one we have been discussing. I’m betting it’s a package.
One thing is certain: You must convey to your children that this is not the way God wants families to behave. Especially if you have sons, somehow you must break the chain of not just honoring Mother, but refusing to cling steadfastly to Wife. Otherwise, this already too prevalent national pattern will continue.
For the time being, I’d follow the tradional kindness thing, and I would try to direct the conversation as much as possible when in the group. Keep it as light and as much fun as possible. Force yourself; what have you to lose? Meanwhile, learn to take control of everything you can. Some members of my extended family offer everyone options ever so politely and happily, but the options always are those that are comfortable for them. This is manipulative, but those members of the family who can’t handle it move away. Sad, but it keeps all their immediate families intact.
I will give this more thought, but for the moment those are my suggestions. Most of all, I think this is, as they say, all of a piece with your counseling concerns.
God bless and keep praying as I will for you and the children,
Anna
A
Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
sparkle! I just thought of one other thing!
During the time you spend with those people this year, just keep us in mind, and know that we will be eager to hear how things went! With this in mind, everything will take on a different and added significance.
How about that?
Anna
During the time you spend with those people this year, just keep us in mind, and know that we will be eager to hear how things went! With this in mind, everything will take on a different and added significance.
How about that?
Anna
S
sparkle
Guest
Hi Friends. Yes, Anna, I suppose my “more pressing issues” could be related to the one mentioned in this post. I thank you for your reply, wisdom and suggestions–everyone.
Yesterday, hubby informs me “we’re going to my moms on X-mas”…I said I didn’t want to. He said “Tough”, etc…that we’ve been with my wonderful family for the past several years (which is true)-- or either been out of town, etc…I then said well, just for an hour perhaps. So it looks friends, as if I’m being thrown into the pit–of abuse and mistreatment again. X-mas has been miserable all the times for the past 16 years there. I’m stooped for an answer here. I REALLY do not want to step foot in their house again----but on the other hand, they’re my husband’s folks, and if it means so much to him, should I go still?
HE will NEVER fully understand my side, nor see his parents for the way they really are, despite the much communication I have done trying to let him know. They’re still HIS parents. He just continually says: “You and my mom have some problems…and it’s not my problem”…Well, surely we all know it is HIS problem first and foremost, but he will not and doesn’t want to see it. In his eyes, his parents can do no wrong. He will not ever stick up for me, unless I totally demand him to, and tell him to say THIS OR THAT. But seems I must use total force to get him to do it.
Don’t really know what I should do now again. Please folks offer some suggestions. In-laws are totally abusive, hubby is weak and spineless, will not stand up for me, kids of course want to see their grandparents. WHAT, IS the solution?
Maybe going over for 1 hour. Eat and go. Tell hubby we’ll do that. And to please not linger over at mom and dads, wallowing in childishness, doting on his mom’s attention, while she verbally and emotionally abuses wife. I’m up to here with hopelessness re the situation and feel like I’m preparing to enter the snake’s pit. I really do think evil spirits preside among all of us and our surroundings, unhealthy people, situations, etc. BUT, when they’re our family members, what should we Catholics do?
Thank you so much friends. Luv ya all!!
Shalom~~~~~~
P.S. On of my dearest friends said "tell them you’ve become Jewish and you don’t celebrate Christmas anymore–only Hanukkah! GREAT!!!
Yesterday, hubby informs me “we’re going to my moms on X-mas”…I said I didn’t want to. He said “Tough”, etc…that we’ve been with my wonderful family for the past several years (which is true)-- or either been out of town, etc…I then said well, just for an hour perhaps. So it looks friends, as if I’m being thrown into the pit–of abuse and mistreatment again. X-mas has been miserable all the times for the past 16 years there. I’m stooped for an answer here. I REALLY do not want to step foot in their house again----but on the other hand, they’re my husband’s folks, and if it means so much to him, should I go still?
HE will NEVER fully understand my side, nor see his parents for the way they really are, despite the much communication I have done trying to let him know. They’re still HIS parents. He just continually says: “You and my mom have some problems…and it’s not my problem”…Well, surely we all know it is HIS problem first and foremost, but he will not and doesn’t want to see it. In his eyes, his parents can do no wrong. He will not ever stick up for me, unless I totally demand him to, and tell him to say THIS OR THAT. But seems I must use total force to get him to do it.
Don’t really know what I should do now again. Please folks offer some suggestions. In-laws are totally abusive, hubby is weak and spineless, will not stand up for me, kids of course want to see their grandparents. WHAT, IS the solution?
Maybe going over for 1 hour. Eat and go. Tell hubby we’ll do that. And to please not linger over at mom and dads, wallowing in childishness, doting on his mom’s attention, while she verbally and emotionally abuses wife. I’m up to here with hopelessness re the situation and feel like I’m preparing to enter the snake’s pit. I really do think evil spirits preside among all of us and our surroundings, unhealthy people, situations, etc. BUT, when they’re our family members, what should we Catholics do?
Thank you so much friends. Luv ya all!!
Shalom~~~~~~
P.S. On of my dearest friends said "tell them you’ve become Jewish and you don’t celebrate Christmas anymore–only Hanukkah! GREAT!!!
P
Princess_Abby
Guest
Sparkle,
If they are truly abusive and you know your husband will not defend nor protect you, then do not go and subject yourself to a toxic situation that will ruin your Christmas and emotionally harm you.
Is it worse to let your husband and children go over there by themselves, or is it worse to go with them?
If your husband isn’t going to be your protector in this situation, you need to protect yourself. You are not obligated to submit to him in situations that harm you. Your husband is not loving you as Christ loves the Church by asking you to submit to abuse and leaving you without support, compassion or protection.
It is time for you to get some backbone for yourself. Your husband is probably sick of hearing about how mistreated you are by his mother–so let him know that he’s right, as you are equally sick of being the one who is mistreated. Tell him that he is more than welcome to spend time with his mother on the holiday, and to take the children with him, but that you choose to not participate in unhealthy activities any more.
If your mother in law complains, just be honest. What have you got to lose anymore, anyway? I would not try to go into any major descriptions of how abused you feel, but if she calls and asks why you won’t be joining her for Christmas, I would just say “Because I choose not to.” And leave it at that. She can ponder all she wants to and ask again and again, but only reveal as much as you want to. Battling with her is a waste of time. Repeat the same phrase again and again until you’ve reached your tolerance and then politely end the conversation.
Make Christmas Eve and Christmas morning extremely special so that you feel you’ve had YOUR holiday as well. Go to mass together on Christmas Eve, come home and read a Christmas story (maybe even the REAL Christmas story, in the gospel, for reiteration), make hot chocolate and have everyone share a favorite memory from the last year. Or, play the “Remember when you were little…” game. (My parents do that with us, and tell the most hilarious stories from when my siblings and I were young. We all listen raptly and feel so special when our parents single each of us out for a special story-telling.) For Christmas day, wake up and open presents, etc., then make a special breakfast for your family.
When it is time for them to go to grandmother’s house, be generous in your spirit and wish them all a good time.
You mentioned being in counseling, and perhaps this issue will be worked out at a later date. But for now, please protect yourself. Everytime you submit to their abuse, it leaves your self-esteem even more torn up and your resentment toward your husband builds. He might be totally shocked that you are willing to stand up for yourself. If he learns by example, you might just find him standing up for you in the future. We teach people how to treat us!!! If we won’t accept bad behavior, they won’t dish it out.
Abby
If they are truly abusive and you know your husband will not defend nor protect you, then do not go and subject yourself to a toxic situation that will ruin your Christmas and emotionally harm you.
Is it worse to let your husband and children go over there by themselves, or is it worse to go with them?
If your husband isn’t going to be your protector in this situation, you need to protect yourself. You are not obligated to submit to him in situations that harm you. Your husband is not loving you as Christ loves the Church by asking you to submit to abuse and leaving you without support, compassion or protection.
It is time for you to get some backbone for yourself. Your husband is probably sick of hearing about how mistreated you are by his mother–so let him know that he’s right, as you are equally sick of being the one who is mistreated. Tell him that he is more than welcome to spend time with his mother on the holiday, and to take the children with him, but that you choose to not participate in unhealthy activities any more.
If your mother in law complains, just be honest. What have you got to lose anymore, anyway? I would not try to go into any major descriptions of how abused you feel, but if she calls and asks why you won’t be joining her for Christmas, I would just say “Because I choose not to.” And leave it at that. She can ponder all she wants to and ask again and again, but only reveal as much as you want to. Battling with her is a waste of time. Repeat the same phrase again and again until you’ve reached your tolerance and then politely end the conversation.
Make Christmas Eve and Christmas morning extremely special so that you feel you’ve had YOUR holiday as well. Go to mass together on Christmas Eve, come home and read a Christmas story (maybe even the REAL Christmas story, in the gospel, for reiteration
), make hot chocolate and have everyone share a favorite memory from the last year. Or, play the “Remember when you were little…” game. (My parents do that with us, and tell the most hilarious stories from when my siblings and I were young. We all listen raptly and feel so special when our parents single each of us out for a special story-telling.) For Christmas day, wake up and open presents, etc., then make a special breakfast for your family.When it is time for them to go to grandmother’s house, be generous in your spirit and wish them all a good time.
You mentioned being in counseling, and perhaps this issue will be worked out at a later date. But for now, please protect yourself. Everytime you submit to their abuse, it leaves your self-esteem even more torn up and your resentment toward your husband builds. He might be totally shocked that you are willing to stand up for yourself. If he learns by example, you might just find him standing up for you in the future. We teach people how to treat us!!! If we won’t accept bad behavior, they won’t dish it out.
Abby
L
Lilyofthevalley
Guest
here are times when your cross will be of that kind, when you are given the opportunity to respond to abuse in a merciful, gracious manner rather than a purely self-defensive manner.
Excuse me, but there is nothing beautiful about suffering abuse. To chalk it up to a Christian experience is sickening and insulting. Nothing changes an abuser but an abuser’s willingness to change his/her behavior.- Status