From Kingdom of Evil to Kingdom of God.

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inJESUS said:
Steven John;3607737:
before i try to find a source for you, please tell me if you expect a dog to stop barking when you ask his owner to shut up.
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No I would not but this is not about me. Aslo I would not speak to its owner in such terms. I respect you might. You told me to pray and tell you. I ask people and try to do it with manners, My Mum brought me up that way. It does not make either of us better just different.

Thanks i will now research “Naik” so when i pray as you have told me to i will know better where you are coming from.

If you read my posts again you may actually work out that I have a hunch I am with you on this, I even complimented you on your early posts.

My hunches opinions dont count for much the world is only not about me. Respectfully its not only about you.

In our discussion it has been about a books written and people in a time past. FOR ME to understand it takes research, discernment and prayer. YOU INSTRUCTED ME TO TO PRAY AND TELL YOU.

I have only ever asked you for your source never disputed you nor said i did not understand. I may be not well educated but please give me a little credit.

I really love you and want peace between us.
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inJESUS said:
The tagleeb rule was mentioned by Naik and he gives the following example:

In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If** for example**, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately…If you apply this conclusion to his example , the result is that jinn belong to the same category and species of angels because boys and girls belong to the same category and species of STUDENTS and HUMANS.

Is it clear now ?
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i think we need to be careful of the words we use.

if jinn and angels are both spiritual beings as opposed to man, then in the context of God telling them to bow down to Adam, they would both be included, whilst still being different.

in your example you have boys and girls which are students, when looking at the Quran we have jinn and angels which are spiritual beings.

but to say that jinn are angels would be the same as saying the girls are boys.

as such Sister Amy’s assertion that Iblis was a jinn and not an angel can be correct, whilst the Jewish and Christian writings are not necessarily corrupt simply because for their understanding they referred to them both as angels.

God Bless
 
inJESUS said:
ask Naik what about if 3 chairmen were present, should they stand up as well? the answer is NO. Ask Naik if some dogs present must stand up, the answer is NO. So Naik is applying the CORRECT rule in the WRONG place.
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i have researched "Naik’ and found that Dr. Zakir Naik did indeed give the example about the 100 students, however i can find him making no references to chairmen.

you neglected to continue your quote of him which i found he said: "Similarly in the Qur’an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur’an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur’an.

Secondly, Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel."

this quote of Dr. Zakir Naik is taken from the following website for anyone that would like to view the actual source:
irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/t15/t15b/pg1.htm

can you please provide your source of where tagleeb should be applied merely to a class or species, as i have been unable to find any such reference.

God Bless
 
inJESUS said:
this is correct but ask Naik what about if 3 chairmen were present, should they stand up as well? the answer is NO. Ask Naik if some dogs present must stand up, the answer is NO.
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Have you asked Dr. Zakir Naik these questions?
or does he have them in web site some where?
or do you suppose the answers to these questions?

Peace and blessings to you and yours

PS thanks be to God for Anita Ks elaboration on “Naik”
 
Anita_K said:
i can find him making no references to chairmen.

of course he does not because he will be shooting his argument. The chairmen is my addition to his example to show that he is giving a correct example but which does not apply everywhere.
you neglected to continue your quote …
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Sam,
as you may well know i am not doing to well with that prayer connection with your true self.

May i ask
Are you Catholic, Muslim or Jehovah Witness?

May The God Most High keep you your fin and kiff always in Its ways as so Ye submit.
 
Steven_John said:
Wow you and the other person have a strange view of Jesus (PBWH)

Many say he is the way to the Father.
Jesus is the only way to the Father.

Do you think you are acting as he would?
Possibly not. However, sometimes, Jesus used strong words to try and get people’s attention, e.g. calling the Pharisees white-washed tombs.

Where are you going?
(I assume you mean after death…) To heaven.

This is how you like to be treated?
It wouldn’t matter how people treated me because of my faith since the Catholic Church holds the fullness of faith.

My God commands me when my brother or sister is astray gently remind them of the path.
Which, as I pointed out, I and many others have been trying that. I’ve come to the conclusion that Sister Amy is trying to convince herself of the validity of the false religion which she now tries to preach to others. She knows what the TRUTH is, and WHO the TRUTH is, since she was raised Christian.

(I find it fascinating that your God can at one time command you to “gently” remind a straying brother or sister of the path, and at other times command Moslems to murder thousands of innocent people.)

Please accept these questions i posed to you in good faith as i am for you not against you but i am against your actions here they are not constructive.
Neither is speaking of mythical, fairy-tale creatures.

In a school yard they would be considered bullying.
And in lower Manhattan where I work, the hand of Islam is called terrorism, wanton and senseless destruction, unsolicited attack, and murder.

In the now-Moslem neighborhood where I live, the dancing which took place in front of the mosque on the evening of 9/11/2001, is called disgraceful, reprehensible, ingratitude towards the Country which did them no harm and welcomed them here, and treasonous.

Forgive me if I’m not the #1 fan of this false religion.

Peace be with you and from you.
And also with you and from you and your fellow believers.
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*“Dear God, do You know the greatest grief one of Your creatures can bear? It is the thought that she can never love You enough. ” *- St. Gemma Galgani
 
Sam_777 said:
what connection!!!..are you trying to send me demons…:tsktsk:

😃
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Hi Sam,
i am quite insulted my parish always taught me we are to pray together.
They said we are members of one body and the Jesus (PBWH) you claimed in your heart is the head.

They never taught me to send people demons your concept is quite absurd.

your PM to me suggested i research moon god, i did just that.

I landed on a site of Jehovah witness (i think) that say the Catholic Church and Islam are more or less to of the same.

reformation.org/vatican-and-islam.html

Given that the Catholic parish here started the interfaith ting for me i found it quite disturbing.

I have prayed for you (Sam) in the Catholic parish here and my brethren said lord hear us.

People praying with me and for me has helped my life.

You know i don’t reckon i have bagged or been nasty to you at any time. i defiantly did not intend to.

When people have slurred at people and not been kind i supported them. By being objective without compromising the truth as i know it.

Hey (Sam) I wont pray for you at home or in my parish any more because my God loves you and would not want you to think people are sending you demons.

Th Most High God knows the name people refer to us by and our true name.

ps FOR ME i am called to unite my spiritual life and flesh to be one. i don’t know what other forum members think but my guess is it is the same.
 
GemmaRose said:
And in lower Manhattan where I work, the hand of Islam is called terrorism, wanton and senseless destruction, unsolicited attack, and murder.

In the now-Moslem neighborhood where I live, the dancing which took place in front of the mosque on the evening of 9/11/2001, is called disgraceful, reprehensible, ingratitude towards the Country which did them no harm and welcomed them here, and treasonous.

Forgive me if I’m not the #1 fan of this false religion.
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I hear you, feel for you but cant begin to imagine what it is like for you, sorry i can’t.
The best i can do is pray God bless you.

Your personal account is of value to me to bring balance in my life.

My parish started interfaith, the Muslims i see and pray with are not like your experience.

In some way i wish i had never listened to our priest life would have been simpler for me to have kept my TV image.

I know it was not easy for Jesus (PBWH) either.

So God must have His purpose even if i cant see it.

When I pray with people I pray that God share the blessings of us all so His will be done.
I cant really describe God I can assure people He is not of terrorism.
I tell my kids at school if it is too hard for you to share Jesus (PBWH) word substitue God for good.

I have had my kids in Catholic schools where if you profess / express belief you will be bullyed.

How insignificant is my battle to yours.

May God give you peace.

addition
Forgive me if I’m not the #1 fan of this false religion.
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there is nothing i can forgive you for, i pray God gives you strength.
I pray that the hatred you see does not get the peace of Jesus(PBWH) from you.
 
Out of sheer curiosity, could you tell me, dear sam, how you can be a Muslim in the “flesh” if you don’t believe in Islam? Seeing as how Islam is not a religion of the “flesh” that doesn’t make any sense to me.

Do you believe that if you were to die now, that God would consider you a Muslim, or something else?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Out of sheer curiosity, could you tell me, dear sam, how you can be a Muslim in the “flesh” if you don’t believe in Islam? Seeing as how Islam is not a religion of the “flesh” that doesn’t make any sense to me.

Do you believe that if you were to die now, that God would consider you a Muslim, or something else?
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Dear Sister,

For sure, God will not judge people based on the religion he/she believe during his/her lifetime. Too bad if you believe that no one will be saved but muslims, while some christian believe that no one will be saved but christians (some even be more specific to mention his/her denomination). This is a ripe foundation to start wars, and happened throughout the history of mankind.

I have told all people in this forum. I would prefer to be an atheist rather than a christian who kill others while shouting Haleluya, or be a muslim who kill others while shouting Allahuakbar. That kind of things are illogical while talking about Allah/God the merciful.
 
A night visit
Last night i was awakened from a dream of a familiar person image trying to defile me.

*Oh angels thou hast awakened me.
What is this creature thou awakened me of that I must invoke protection from.

I give All Glory thanks and praise to The One Most High Everliving Allseeing God and dost invoke protection from all evil.

Creature before me know The Most High is the origin of your creation and my own, and it is to He you long to return.

The one you perceive as your master is the deceiver that blinds. Even it longs return to The Most High the origin of all creation.

In the name of The One True God i command thee submit to my questions for His will to be done or be made my foot stool.
I am not of you so how can i be your foot stool?

Oh demon who be thou host?
its name be unknown in certainty to all but The Most High and its true self.
Why be it so?
any creature divided be not one.
Did it send you in knowingly or unknowingly?
Even the host may not know, any creature divided be not one.

Why dost thy comest to me?
This is not to be spoken.

How then can your host be unified.
By the sword of The Most High.
which sword?
scripture.
By The Most High i command thee answer my questions as asked, speak not what i know.
you have commanded this before be it you losing faith.
nay it be i tire of you.
which scripture?
your own words say i am blind.
what of scripture will heal your host.
Loss of held.
what of held.
family and wealth.

Be gone from me and submit yourself to The Most High that ye may see.
it is not for you to undo my will.
By the command of The Most High be gone from me, my kin and kiff, return to your host if this is the command of The Most High will but collect not your 8 in kind that your host maybe unified and you freed.
…(invocation withheld)…*

In such the only perception of a demon is that that was shown in this world, true or untrue.

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

A man without wife or child would be blessed to do so now.

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

No man will hold gold for eternity, even in this life it loses its shine.
Blessed is a man that had it for he can see its worthlessness if he lets it go. For some they will again hold more.

If you have eyes see.
If you have ears hear.

Gods people migrate if they hear the truth of their hearts.

May God bless and give refuge from evil all who read this post.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Do you believe that if you were to die now, that God would consider you a Muslim, or something else?
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If I would die now, and God asks me what was my religion, I would tell him:

I beg your mercy and forgiveness Almighty The Most High God, I’ve been on the religion of my ancestors all my life till my soul have heard the words of Jesus, my soul reacted with massive tears to his words and a heavenly joy flowed through me, that wasn’t the case with my ancestors’ religion, whatever I read in the Bible it sounds heavenly, and that wasn’t the case with my ancestors’ religion book, whenever I hear Jesus teaching, they sound peacefully, heavenly, and irresistible, but that wasn’t the case with my ancestors’ religion teaching, Almighty The Most High God, that was my limitations, I had no tangible proof of knowing which book was right or wrong, I let my soul guides me, therefore, if you think I have done a mistake, then again I beg your mercy and forgiveness.:gopray:
 
brother sam.i am also like you.when i read bible then i also thought that its the word from true god.jesus bless you.and bless all ppl.AMEN
 
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