From your experence why does NFP feel better than contraception?

[SwizzleStick]

Scandal—Scandal is an attitude or behavior that leads another to do evil. If someone is deliberately lead into a grave offense, that person’s tempter commits a grave sin (CCC 2284 and 2285). Jesus said, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6).

General question: Are some of the posts in this thread scandalous? No reply to me, please. Simply ask yourself this question, examine your conscience and talk with your confessor.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Well obviously I don’t believe this to be the case.

Obviously. So, the Church is wrong and you are correct?

 

[Blacksword]

Well then apparently that definition is wrong. Because we have a very healthy sex life, thank you.

LOL, well there’s a pretty central point to this discussion: who are you, after all, to judge how healthy your sex life is? You’re just the actual, and only, two people experiencing this sex life after all. Doesn’t it make sense that other, uninvolved people who don’t even know you have a much better knowledge of how your life is going in this department than you do?!

 

[Debora123]

Wouldn’t that make Jesus a bit dishonest when he said the Holy Spirit would not abandon us. If this is human error…what else is?

As someone has already pointed out, the Church has made human mistakes before. It happens. Apparently it is against the forum rules to go into those, so I will refrain from doing so.

The fact that there have been a few human errors doesn’t take away the Sanctity of the Church.

This issue is not dogma.

 

[Jesse25]

LOL, well there’s a pretty central point to this discussion: who are you, after all, to judge how healthy your sex life is? You’re just the actual, and only, two people experiencing this sex life after all. Doesn’t it make sense that other, uninvolved people who don’t even know you have a much better knowledge of how your life is going in this department than you do?!

 

[Blacksword]

Holy Mother Church says you are wrong.

Fallibly, yes, she does. It is authoritative non infallible teaching, which must admit therefore at least some degree of possible error, and admit of the possibility of prayerful, respectful private dissent.

 

[Corki]

If there are ANY priests (I do not say there are many) who act this…

This is what Pope John Paul II said about such:

“What is taught by the Church on contraception is not one of the matters that may be freely disputed by theologians. To teach the contrary is equivalent to leading the conscience of spouses into error”…

As Pope John Paul II in 1987

The way I look at it is this:

If a priest gives advice that seems contrary to the Church’s teaching, simply ask for some extra reading material (documentation). If a priest says that contraception is allowed, I doubt he would be able to provide any. There are literally hundreds of Church documents on why contraception is a sin and not any on why contraception is allowed.

That’s not to say that a priest might not say something like this on his own initiative or due to his own ignorance of Church teaching and that’s very sad but it isn’t from the Church.

 

[Debora123]

Obviously. So, the Church is wrong and you are correct?

Me and 90% of the world’s Catholics. As well as every other religion in the world.

 

[Corki]

Fallibly, yes, she does. It is authoritative non infallible teaching, which must admit therefore at least some degree of possible error, and admit of the possibility of prayerful, respectful private dissent.

Priate dissent, maybe, but not action. To act against an authoritaive teaching of the Church, even “in private” is a sin.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Scandal—Scandal is an attitude or behavior that leads another to do evil. If someone is deliberately lead into a grave offense, that person’s tempter commits a grave sin (CCC 2284 and 2285). Jesus said, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6).

General question: Are some of the posts in this thread scandalous? No reply to me, please. Simply ask yourself this question, examine your conscience and talk with your confessor.

 

[Bookcat]

This issue is not dogma.

When such is said it is a demonstration that there is not an understanding of the Teachings of the Church and the assent that we to give them. Dogma are not the only thing to be given assent.

And in fact this teaching is to be held as definitive. But even if it were not…it still would need to be given assent by Catholics. It is not an open matter.

 

[Debora123]

LOL, well there’s a pretty central point to this discussion: who are you, after all, to judge how healthy your sex life is? You’re just the actual, and only, two people experiencing this sex life after all. Doesn’t it make sense that other, uninvolved people who don’t even know you have a much better knowledge of how your life is going in this department than you do?!

I know, right? But that just adds to the silliness of the whole thing.

 

[Bookcat]

Me and 90% of the world’s Catholics.

LOL.

Not the case.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Me and 90% of the world’s Catholics. As well as every other religion in the world.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

 

[Debora123]

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

I was wondering how long it would be before someone implied that I am going to Hell. It came quicker than I expected this time.

 

[Bookcat]

The way I look at it is this:

If a priest gives advice that seems contrary to the Church’s teaching, simply ask for some extra reading material (documentation). If a priest says that contraception is allowed, I doubt he would be able to provide any. There are literally hundreds of Church documents on why contraception is a sin and not any on why contraception is allowed.

That’s not to say that a priest might not say something like this on his own initiative or due to his own ignorance of Church teaching and that’s very sad but it isn’t from the Church.

Yes like the document directed to all priests that says it is to be held as definitive.…

It was to guide them in hearing the confessions of married folk.

 

[Blacksword]

Scandal—Scandal is an attitude or behavior that leads another to do evil. If someone is deliberately lead into a grave offense, that person’s tempter commits a grave sin (CCC 2284 and 2285). Jesus said, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6).

General question: Are some of the posts in this thread scandalous? No reply to me, please. Simply ask yourself this question, examine your conscience and talk with your confessor.

I’ll reply…I am very sensitive to this issue actually. I have not, I don’t believe, expressly advocated that anyone take any particular action with regards to contraception or the way they conduct themselves in marriage at all. I would NOT tell anyone that the Church’s teaching on this issue is anything other than what it is if asked. However, if asked my private opinion, or discussing on an anonymous internet forum, it would seem perfectly acceptable to voice a reasoned, respectful, prayerful dissent from certain aspects of the teaching of Humanae Vitae. And though I won’t go into it here, I still maintain that I am CERTAIN that there are similarly forceful teachings on morality of other issues throughout Church history that many posters on this forum disagree with. It always easy to ignore the historic Church teachings on something we don’t like when one can so easily act self-righteous toward others who disagree with one other moral teaching. I’d be happy to engage in private on this, but I’m wiling to bet there are points of disagreement with the Church’s moral teachings that everyone here disagrees with and has ignored or rationalized away. Find me a Catholic who fully agrees with EVERY single moral teaching in the history of the Church, and you’ll have found one of the rarest people on Earth today!

I hope I have not fomented scandal, I have not advocated that anyone do anything in particular in their sexual conduct, I’ve only advocated people leave the judging of another’s mortal sin and state of spiritual health to God, and God alone.

 

[Blacksword]

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

You seem to imply you have advance knowledge of Deborah’s, and, presumably, every other contracepting couple’s, eternal fate, a decidedly unpleasant fate at that. Please refrain from such judgment, I know that verse well, I’m sure she does too.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Obviously. So, the Church is wrong and you are correct?

Me and 90% of the world’s Catholics. As well as every other religion in the world.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

I was wondering how long it would be before someone implied that I am going to Hell. It came quicker than I expected this time.

The implication was not that at all. The implication is that you and 90% of the Catholics and folks in every other religion in the world might be in error with your views. Christ Himself said the gate was narrow. He who knows all said that. Why take the chance of choosing the road to destruction by ignoring the teachings of the Church because you and many others think you know better than the Church?

 

[SwizzleStick]

You seem to imply you have advance knowledge of Deborah’s, and, presumably, every other contracepting couple’s, eternal fate, a decidedly unpleasant fate at that. Please refrain from such judgment, I know that verse well, I’m sure she does too.

I am not implying that at all. See my previous post.