Frozen Thread

[Terra_Rosarum]

Did you notice that, unlike older Disney films, nobody gets married and goes off to live happily ever after at the end?

 

[anon67074017]

I still don’t get it.

Why do you say it has a demonic source? Does the movie mention it?

If it doesn’t, then how do you know?

It is not mentioned in the movie, but all magic comes from the devil.

Did you notice that, unlike older Disney films, nobody gets married and goes off to live happily ever after at the end?

I noticed that. It may be a part of the progressive agenda.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

It is quite possible that Frozen promotes the LGBT agenda. A significant portion of the fandom wants Elsa to be recognized as a lesbian in the sequel. Another part of the fandom wants Anna and Elsa to be in a romantic relationship. Disney gives possible hints of Anna and Elsa being in a romantic relationship in their printed materials and merchandise. Anna and Elsa even hold hands in the non-canon TV series Once Upon a Time. Olaf the snowman also holds traits common with homosexual men.

I’m sure you find HP to be a tool of the devil in general because of those eevil witches and wizards, but note that many Harry Potter fans wanted Fred and George to be in a romantic relationship, that does NOT mean JKR herself saw their relationship as such. Same for the very popular “slash” pairing of Remus and Sirius. The only semi-canon gay pairing was Dumbledore-Grindelwald, and that certainly didn’t end well, so can’t be really said to show such relationships in a good light.

As for “no one gets married and lives happily ever after” the original Little Mermaid sure didn’t, yet she does in the Disney version. If anything Disney has used this trope way too often and it was refreshing that Frozen deviates from it. The whole idea is that the familial love between the sisters was the main point, not Anna crushing on or being crushed on by a man.

Yes, I know some fans want to sexualize the relationship, but IMHO your statements that Disney is hinting at a romantic relationship, written as if they are obvious fact, so obvious you don’t even bother citing examples, make you come off a having a mind that is just as dirty as those twisted slash shippers. Well, okay, you did cite hand-holding. Well, I’ve seen many little girls who are friends as well as sisters holding hands, are they all secretly incestuous lesbians too? While they aren’t actually little girls, I do think both Elsa and Anna are emotionally stunted enough and missed out on so much normal sisterly bonding, that acting like little girls at times is understandable.

 

[anon67074017]

I’m sure you find HP to be a tool of the devil in general because of those eevil witches and wizards, but note that many Harry Potter fans wanted Fred and George to be in a romantic relationship, that does NOT mean JKR herself saw their relationship as such. Same for the very popular “slash” pairing of Remus and Sirius. The only semi-canon gay pairing was Dumbledore-Grindelwald, and that certainly didn’t end well, so can’t be really said to show such relationships in a good light.

As for “no one gets married and lives happily ever after” the original Little Mermaid sure didn’t, yet she does in the Disney version. If anything Disney has used this trope way too often and it was refreshing that Frozen deviates from it. The whole idea is that the familial love between the sisters was the main point, not Anna crushing on or being crushed on by a man.

Yes, I know some fans want to sexualize the relationship, but IMHO your statements that Disney is hinting at a romantic relationship, written as if they are obvious fact, so obvious you don’t even bother citing examples, make you come off a having a mind that is just as dirty as those twisted slash shippers. Well, okay, you did cite hand-holding. Well, I’ve seen many little girls who are friends as well as sisters holding hands, are they all secretly incestuous lesbians too? While they aren’t actually little girls, I do think both Elsa and Anna are emotionally stunted enough and missed out on so much normal sisterly bonding, that acting like little girls at times is understandable.

Little girls are innocent and non-sexualized. Anna and Elsa are two adult women. I do see your point about Anna and Elsa acting like little girls though. I am just a conspiracy theorist.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Little girls are innocent and non-sexualized. Anna and Elsa are two adult women. I do see your point about Anna and Elsa acting like little girls though. I am just a conspiracy theorist.

Uh, you do realize that by outing yourself as a “conspiracy theorist” you’ve pretty much destroyed your own credibility and the relevance of this topic in general? A conspiracy theorist, to me, starts out with a pre-determined conclusion and will twist facts as much as they can to fit that conclusion, instead of actually approaching the topic with an open mind; ironically, usually at the same time they bash skeptics of their theory for NOT being open-minded.

So, “Frozen is evil” seems to be your pre-determined conclusion. Doesn’t really inspire me to bother presenting an alternate POV, then.

But for the sake of other posters, I’ll also point out that Anna and Elsa also act more like little girls than their actual age, because the primary audience this franchise is marketed to, is NOT 18-21 year olds, but little girls. That’s probably also why Olaf exists, and why the trolls are cute and almost-fuzzy, not as the scary beasts of traditional Nordic folklore, though both seem to turn to stone in the daylight.

I can interpret the story in far-out ways, too. Hans choosing to woo Anna, not Elsa, because he correctly pegged her as “hungry for love” reminded me of how real life predators of real life little girls, as well as not-so-little girls, often pick their victims. Now, Hans doesn’t turn out be a sexual predator, but he does seem to relish destroying her innocence, by proclaiming how he never loved her.

Even though, if he had actually gone through with the kiss, and acted all sad and sorry when it didn’t work, and perhaps proposed having a wedding ASAP hoping THAT would work, and finally playing the part of sad widower once Anna did die of a frozen heart, his plan would have succeeded! And possibly doomed Arendelle, because although both Hans and the Duke assume killing Elsa would end the magical winter, we never actually find out if that’s true. But if he’d just continued to con Anna until she died, then no one would have tried to save Elsa, and she would never have realized what the key to reversing the winter was.

Though the real reason for Hans’s stupidity here, is the fairly standard “Evil Mastermind Wastes Time Explaining His Master Plan to the Victim, then Walks Off Triumphantly Without Actually Confirming Death of Victim” plot gift that also works a lot for James Bond, Batman, etc.

 

[anon67074017]

Uh, you do realize that by outing yourself as a “conspiracy theorist” you’ve pretty much destroyed your own credibility and the relevance of this topic in general? A conspiracy theorist, to me, starts out with a pre-determined conclusion and will twist facts as much as they can to fit that conclusion, instead of actually approaching the topic with an open mind; ironically, usually at the same time they bash skeptics of their theory for NOT being open-minded.

So, “Frozen is evil” seems to be your pre-determined conclusion. Doesn’t really inspire me to bother presenting an alternate POV, then.

But for the sake of other posters, I’ll also point out that Anna and Elsa also act more like little girls than their actual age, because the primary audience this franchise is marketed to, is NOT 18-21 year olds, but little girls. That’s probably also why Olaf exists, and why the trolls are cute and almost-fuzzy, not as the scary beasts of traditional Nordic folklore, though both seem to turn to stone in the daylight.

I can interpret the story in far-out ways, too. Hans choosing to woo Anna, not Elsa, because he correctly pegged her as “hungry for love” reminded me of how real life predators of real life little girls, as well as not-so-little girls, often pick their victims. Now, Hans doesn’t turn out be a sexual predator, but he does seem to relish destroying her innocence, by proclaiming how he never loved her.

Even though, if he had actually gone through with the kiss, and acted all sad and sorry when it didn’t work, and perhaps proposed having a wedding ASAP hoping THAT would work, and finally playing the part of sad widower once Anna did die of a frozen heart, his plan would have succeeded! And possibly doomed Arendelle, because although both Hans and the Duke assume killing Elsa would end the magical winter, we never actually find out if that’s true. But if he’d just continued to con Anna until she died, then no one would have tried to save Elsa, and she would never have realized what the key to reversing the winter was.

Though the real reason for Hans’s stupidity here, is the fairly standard “Evil Mastermind Wastes Time Explaining His Master Plan to the Victim, then Walks Off Triumphantly Without Actually Confirming Death of Victim” plot gift that also works a lot for James Bond, Batman, etc.

I know that there are fellow conspiracy theorists who would probably agree with me here. This thread is not to just say that Frozen is evil. It is also to discuss Christian themes in the film and what will happen with these themes in the sequel.

 

[Sarcelle]

Little girls are innocent and non-sexualized. Anna and Elsa are two adult women. I do see your point about Anna and Elsa acting like little girls though. I am just a conspiracy theorist.

Believe it or not, not all actions by adult women are sexual in nature. Whatever happened to good old fashioned friendship and sisterly affection? Not all affectionate gestures originate from a sexual origin.

 

[mikekle]

You are seeing too much into a children’s film.

It seems to be more of a reflection of your mindset than what is really there.

But we have to keep in mind, the evil forces that are working ‘behind the scenes’ in our world, are MUCH more intelligent than we are, its very possible they could be using things like this to mold young minds into what they want, look at many other kids movies today, versus those in the past, its pretty clear they are pushing certain agendas.

In fact, maybe we are not seeing enough in movies like this, as much as we truly should anyway? After all, do you think Satan is going to come right out and spill the beans on all his plans…of course his actions and methods are going to be sneaky, sly and very tough to spot.

 

[Sarcelle]

But we have to keep in mind, the evil forces that are working ‘behind the scenes’ in our world, are MUCH more intelligent than we are, its very possible they could be using things like this to mold young minds into what they want, look at many other kids movies today, versus those in the past, its pretty clear they are pushing certain agendas.

In fact, maybe we are not seeing enough in movies like this, as much as we truly should anyway? After all, do you think Satan is going to come right out and spill the beans on all his plans…of course his actions and methods are going to be sneaky, sly and very tough to spot.

It’s quite one thing to say that entertainment has degraded over the past decade, I agree with that, but it is quite another to see the LGBT agenda in almost everything, especially when coupled with a conspiracy mindset.

It’s like Jack Chick seeing the evil Catholic Church in almost everything. We must not fall into that same trap.

 

[at9009]

Did you notice that, unlike older Disney films, nobody gets married and goes off to live happily ever after at the end?

That doesn’t necessarily have to mean anything. The big thing I got out of it was love between two siblings which is indeed a good message. One sister willing to die for the other is a pretty powerful message. It is actually a good reminder that there is other love besides those between romantic partners (which are society seems to have forgotten).

I think that is a much better message than other films where it is now that I found X we can get married and live happily ever after. Marriage is a vocation and needs to be treated as such rather than just a check box in life in order to be ‘happy.’ Marriage has many blessings but it also comes with trials and tribulations. But that is largely irrelevant to the film which was okay overall. I much preferred other animated films. Big Hero 6 was really good in my book.

 

[anon67074017]

Believe it or not, not all actions by adult women are sexual in nature. Whatever happened to good old fashioned friendship and sisterly affection? Not all affectionate gestures originate from a sexual origin.

I think it is most likely sisterly affection. The Elsanna shippers like to insist that their ship is canon though.

But we have to keep in mind, the evil forces that are working ‘behind the scenes’ in our world, are MUCH more intelligent than we are, its very possible they could be using things like this to mold young minds into what they want, look at many other kids movies today, versus those in the past, its pretty clear they are pushing certain agendas.

In fact, maybe we are not seeing enough in movies like this, as much as we truly should anyway? After all, do you think Satan is going to come right out and spill the beans on all his plans…of course his actions and methods are going to be sneaky, sly and very tough to spot.

I agree with you. Frozen has subliminal symbolism in addition to an overt message.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I think it is most likely sisterly affection. The Elsanna shippers like to insist that their ship is canon though.

Well, I think that what “shippers” insist about any “ship” is obviously biased and should not be taken seriously when analyzing films.

I’ve also met “Helsanna” shippers who also disturb me, though I think many of them are very simple and think “well, there are 2 girls and 2 guys, Kris and Anna got together, so obviously Hans and Elsa will get together in the sequel”. It shows the persistence of the “everyone must pair off and live happily ever after” trope that I actually think is stale and tired.

Also, many who support “problematic ships” are quick to issue disclaimers that “this is all about fictional characters” and that their shipping preferences have nothing to do with what they support in real life. So, not all Elsanna shippers actually support incest, just as not all Helsanna shippers think that it’s a good idea to marry someone who tried to kill you earlier. They just think it would be really dramatic of Hans repented of his actions to the extent that he actually falls in love with Elsa.

I do agree that it’s possible that a work may send out both overt and subliminal messages, but I don’t think this is always due to some deliberate, nefarious conspiracy. I think Twilight sends very wrong messages about what’s normal in romantic relationships, but I also don’t think Meyer set out to promote emotionally abusive relationships with large power differentials, either.

 

[anon67074017]

Well, I think that what “shippers” insist about any “ship” is obviously biased and should not be taken seriously when analyzing films.

I’ve also met “Helsanna” shippers who also disturb me, though I think many of them are very simple and think “well, there are 2 girls and 2 guys, Kris and Anna got together, so obviously Hans and Elsa will get together in the sequel”. It shows the persistence of the “everyone must pair off and live happily ever after” trope that I actually think is stale and tired.

Also, many who support “problematic ships” are quick to issue disclaimers that “this is all about fictional characters” and that their shipping preferences have nothing to do with what they support in real life. So, not all Elsanna shippers actually support incest, just as not all Helsanna shippers think that it’s a good idea to marry someone who tried to kill you earlier. They just think it would be really dramatic of Hans repented of his actions to the extent that he actually falls in love with Elsa.

I do agree that it’s possible that a work may send out both overt and subliminal messages, but I don’t think this is always due to some deliberate, nefarious conspiracy. I think Twilight sends very wrong messages about what’s normal in romantic relationships, but I also don’t think Meyer set out to promote emotionally abusive relationships with large power differentials, either.

I am actually sympathetic to Helsa. I think Hans deserves redemption and he may end up with Elsa.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I am actually sympathetic to Helsa. I think Hans deserves redemption and he may end up with Elsa.

The voice actor who plays Hans actually has hinted that he will be redeemed in the sequel. However, that’s not the same as a Helsa scenario. Even with a redeemed Hans, most takes on Helsa is problematic for me, because they seem to reduce Elsa to merely being a prize Hans gets for redeeming himself.

Much as in many other Disney films, the Prince was essentially a prize the main character wins at the end, merely for being good and virtuous. And while you certainly could make a case for Hans as essentially a genderbent, more ruthless version of Cinderella, Frozen is not his story. I doubt Frozen II is going to focus on Hans much more than the original did. (I can see an eventual Hans-centric novelization being written though, much as a ***Frozen Heart ***is, though even that derivative work isn’t All About Hans, it delves into Anna’s backstory as well.)

This is not to say that Elsa, as well as Anna, wouldn’t benefit from forgiving Hans, redeemed or not. Now that would certainly be an example of Christian forgiveness. But forgiving someone is NOT the same as marrying him.

 

[Sarcelle]

Did you notice that, unlike older Disney films, nobody gets married and goes off to live happily ever after at the end?

Should getting married be a prerequisite for all Disney films?

 

[anon67074017]

I would like to see more Christian themes in Frozen 2. They should bring in the Duke of Weselton again to exemplify this. He can try to persecute her again because of witchcraft.

 

[jtauke]

I myself have autism. I relate more with Hans than I do with Elsa. I think Hans may have Asperger’s.

I also thought the film took place in Russia from the previews. I quickly figured out it was Scandinavia. I never thought it took place in Poland. The year it takes place is 1839.

Elsa did not make a deal with the devil herself. I believe her powers come from demonic sources though.

You identify with the villain of the movie? What proof do you have of her powers coming from a demonic source??

You’re overthinking a children’s movie.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Fraternal love is uplifted which is beautiful. I love the troll song, “Fixer upper”, and how it rally’s around family.

I am facinated how Hans did such a good job being a wolf in sheeps clothing. When he stood up against the government of Westletown (weasel town) and kindly passed out blankets to the cold, I thought Anna had surely picked a good one. He even went further with his interaction with Elsa in the ice castle and when he visited her in prisen. But to turn out the way did was revealing about many of the heartbreaks people experience (utter betrayal) and why we need to uplift fraternal love more.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Q: Do you think that King Agnarr and Queen Iduna (Elsa & Anna’s parents) are the parents of Tarzan?

Q: Do you think Anna has the superpower of super strength? disneytheory.com/2014/08/26/elsa-isnt-the-only-princess-with-super-powers/

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

Another Christan theme: Be not afraid!

Fear is the cause of the misery in this film. It’s Elsa who fears hurting someone she loves. This fear isolates her from her sister and her kindgdom. It is the fear that is constantly enclosing upon her trapping her in her ice palace. Once she learns that love, true love (agape love) conquers all then she is able to enter act with those she loves.

Even if Anna does not have superpowers (as I propose in a prior question) she has the true agape love that can thaw a frozen heart.

Born of cold and winter air
And mountain rain combining
This icy force both foul and fair
Has a frozen heart worth mining

So cut through the heart, cold and clear
Strike for love and strike for fear
See the beauty, sharp and sheer
Split the ice apart And break the frozen heart

Hyup! Ho! Watch your step! Let it go!
Hyup! Ho! Watch your step! Let it go!

Beautiful!
Powerful!
Dangerous!
Cold!

Ice has a magic, can’t be controlled
Stronger than one, stronger than ten
Stronger than a hundred men! Hyup!

Born of cold and winter air
And mountain rain combining
This icy force both foul and fair
Has a frozen heart worth mining

Cut through the heart, cold and clear
Strike for love and strike for fear
There’s beauty and there’s danger here
Split the ice apart
Beware the frozen heart.