Frozen Thread

[pensmama87]

Q: Do you think that King Agnarr and Queen Iduna (Elsa & Anna’s parents) are the parents of Tarzan?

Q: Do you think Anna has the superpower of super strength? disneytheory.com/2014/08/26/elsa-isnt-the-only-princess-with-super-powers/

That reminds me of something I read a while back that linked all the Pixar movies together. Crazy, but fun. :whacky:

I’m pretty sure Tarzan’s mom was a redhead, though…

 

[Robyn_p]

It is quite possible that Frozen promotes the LGBT agenda. A significant portion of the fandom wants Elsa to be recognized as a lesbian in the sequel. Another part of the fandom wants Anna and Elsa to be in a romantic relationship.

I’m sure you find HP to be a tool of the devil in general because of those eevil witches and wizards, but note that many Harry Potter fans wanted Fred and George to be in a romantic relationship, that does NOT mean JKR herself saw their relationship as such.

What? Is this real? Who the hell are these people that fantasize about siblings in a kid’s story hooking up?

I feel so dirty now knowing that stuff actually exists.

 

[anon67074017]

You identify with the villain of the movie? What proof do you have of her powers coming from a demonic source??

You’re overthinking a children’s movie.

I identify with the villain because he is a good guy overall. He just makes some mistakes because he really wants to rule for the people.

Fraternal love is uplifted which is beautiful. I love the troll song, “Fixer upper”, and how it rally’s around family.

I am facinated how Hans did such a good job being a wolf in sheeps clothing. When he stood up against the government of Westletown (weasel town) and kindly passed out blankets to the cold, I thought Anna had surely picked a good one. He even went further with his interaction with Elsa in the ice castle and when he visited her in prisen. But to turn out the way did was revealing about many of the heartbreaks people experience (utter betrayal) and why we need to uplift fraternal love more.

I do not like “Fixer Upper” because it is a corny song in what should have been a dark film. It is like “A Guy Like You” from The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Q: Do you think that King Agnarr and Queen Iduna (Elsa & Anna’s parents) are the parents of Tarzan?

Q: Do you think Anna has the superpower of super strength? disneytheory.com/2014/08/26/elsa-isnt-the-only-princess-with-super-powers/

I do not believe in either of those theories. Tarzan and Frozen do not take place in the same universe. Anna is just a normal girl. She says so herself.

What? Is this real? Who the hell are these people that fantasize about siblings in a kid’s story hooking up?

I feel so dirty now knowing that stuff actually exists.

That part of the fandom is real. They like to apply adult themes to the movie.

 

[Irishmom2]

Personally I think it is a terrible, half-baked, overly annoying movie that is popular because of one good song. (Of course, this is just my opinion) as far as Christian themes; maybe, but I don’t see them.

That’s funny, the song is the reason I have no interest in ever seeing that movie!

 

[at9009]

I identify with the villain because he is a good guy overall. He just makes some mistakes because he really wants to rule for the people.

Good guy overall? Didn’t he try to murder the Elsa and basically leave Anna to die? So… that seems like a little more than just mistake. It seems like his quest for power was ultimately his downfall. Though a redemption story for him could be compelling.

 

[mikekle]

I still cannot believe how many adults watch these kids movie nowadays! I think that is very telling in itself when it comes to this topic, if the producers recognize so many adults are watching, they certainly will try to push their agendas more thru the story line.

I remember when I was a kid and how most adults could not stand to sit and watch ‘kids’ movies back then, many times when our family rented movies, they would rent one movie for us kids and then they would rent and watch a more adult movie themselves.

Not sure when this started changing, but it definitely has.

 

[pensmama87]

Good guy overall? Didn’t he try to murder the Elsa and basically leave Anna to die? So… that seems like a little more than just mistake. It seems like his quest for power was ultimately his downfall. Though a redemption story for him could be compelling.

Right. I got the impression from watching the films that his “nice” actions for the people were to get their support, not because he actually cared. I saw very little evidence of that in the film at all.

I still cannot believe how many adults watch these kids movie nowadays! I think that is very telling in itself when it comes to this topic, if the producers recognize so many adults are watching, they certainly will try to push their agendas more thru the story line.

I remember when I was a kid and how most adults could not stand to sit and watch ‘kids’ movies back then, many times when our family rented movies, they would rent one movie for us kids and then they would rent and watch a more adult movie themselves.

Not sure when this started changing, but it definitely has.

I appreciate having things to watch that both adults and kids can enjoy. Children shouldn’t be expected to enjoy cruddy entertainment just because they’re children. Whole family entertainment should be whole family entertainment. I don’t see anything nefarious in that.

My kids don’t watch a lot of TV or movies, but they have seen several Disney and Pixar movies repeatedly, and therefore, so have I. I still notice things in the movies that I missed before, all of it absolutely harmless - homages to other films, clever plays on words, details in scenes, etc. Perhaps I have been spoiled by that, because it’s one of the reasons the uneven storytelling in *Frozen * bugs me so much. It’s not intentional, it’s just sloppy filmmaking.

 

[Joe_5859]

Believe it or not, not all actions by adult women are sexual in nature. Whatever happened to good old fashioned friendship and sisterly affection? Not all affectionate gestures originate from a sexual origin.

Right. Sam and Frodo hold hands in the LotR movies. Not all physical affection is sexual in nature.

Joseph, I think you’re reading too much into the movie. I don’t find it overly Christian, but neither is it overly anti-Christian.

 

[jtauke]

I identify with the villain because he is a good guy overall. He just makes some mistakes because he really wants to rule for the people.

He lusts for power and is willing to murder to secure it.

That makes him an overall good guy??

 

[mikekle]

Right. I got the impression from watching the films that his “nice” actions for the people were to get their support, not because he actually cared. I saw very little evidence of that in the film at all.

I appreciate having things to watch that both adults and kids can enjoy. Children shouldn’t be expected to enjoy cruddy entertainment just because they’re children. Whole family entertainment should be whole family entertainment. I don’t see anything nefarious in that.

My kids don’t watch a lot of TV or movies, but they have seen several Disney and Pixar movies repeatedly, and therefore, so have I. I still notice things in the movies that I missed before, all of it absolutely harmless - homages to other films, clever plays on words, details in scenes, etc. Perhaps I have been spoiled by that, because it’s one of the reasons the uneven storytelling in *Frozen * bugs me so much. It’s not intentional, it’s just sloppy filmmaking.

I dont think any of the movies or tv my generation grew up on, was bad or cruddy, it was just made for kids, naturally, most adults did not prefer to watch them, not because they were bad, but just because they were made for kids, I know personally I would never go out and watch an animated kids movie on my own, they are made for kids, not adults.

It seems today, the producers are trying to blur the genres, and who knows, the reason could be to push certain agendas, now that they know adults are watching too…if you recall, back in the 70s and 80s, there was not a lot of agenda in kids entertainment back then.

 

[MPat]

This thread is to discuss the Disney movie Frozen and its connection with Christianity. I myself am quite interested in Frozen. When I first saw it, I was pleasantly surprised because of the film’s European history themes. I am a big history buff. Frozen also has very mild religious themes in it. This is evident when the Duke of Weselton condemns Elsa for sorcery. The magic in the film poses a problem for me as a Christian though. The film teaches that witchcraft is okay. We Catholics know this is not true. The film also promotes a left-wing political agenda based on secular humanism. These reasons are why I am not fully a part of the Frozen fandom. What do you people think of the film?

OK, so you think that its creators wanted to use it as propaganda? In that case, shouldn’t you try to sabotage their plan by looking for interpretations that are pro-Catholic, instead of doing their work for them by looking for anti-Catholic interpretations?

That is, what’s the point of suspecting an evil conspiracy, if that will only cause one to end up helping it?

And even without the evil conspiracy, shouldn’t we make the stories enjoyable to us and not to anti-Catholics?

If you would be willing to look for other interpretations, I’m going to reuse some things I have posted at other similar threads:

Maybe chapters 104-106 of third book of “Summa Contra Gentiles” (dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles3b.htm#104) could help…? It explains how do we know that “works of magicians” are evil. Then you could discuss if the “magic” you were talking about has anything to do with those “works of magicians”. If it works, It might be an introduction to St. Thomas Aquinas - and on a matter where he mostly confirms what the parents tell your nephew. The downside is that reading those writings might not be what a six year old would consider “fun”…

So, given what you are saying, the story can be seen as illustrating a fact that “true love” is not “love at first sight”, but self sacrifice…? Like the one commanded by Jesus and the apostles…?

And what are the results of that “no right or wrong, no rules for me. I’m free!”…? Wikipedia’s article writes: “Elsa flees the palace, inadvertently unleashing eternal winter on the kingdom in the process.”, “Elsa becomes agitated, and accidentally strikes Anna in the heart with her powers.”… Doesn’t look very harmless, does it…?

 

[anon67074017]

Good guy overall? Didn’t he try to murder the Elsa and basically leave Anna to die? So… that seems like a little more than just mistake. It seems like his quest for power was ultimately his downfall. Though a redemption story for him could be compelling.

He did not try to murder Elsa. He was going to kill her to save the citizens. He left Anna to die because he had no use for her. He is a secular leader, so I really don’t hold him to devout Christian standards.

He lusts for power and is willing to murder to secure it.

That makes him an overall good guy??

He wants to be a leader like Napoleon Bonaparte. Napoleon seized power for the good of the people. Hans wanted to do just that with his power.

OK, so you think that its creators wanted to use it as propaganda? In that case, shouldn’t you try to sabotage their plan by looking for interpretations that are pro-Catholic, instead of doing their work for them by looking for anti-Catholic interpretations?

That is, what’s the point of suspecting an evil conspiracy, if that will only cause one to end up helping it?

And even without the evil conspiracy, shouldn’t we make the stories enjoyable to us and not to anti-Catholics?

If you would be willing to look for other interpretations, I’m going to reuse some things I have posted at other similar threads:

I do think that Frozen was intended to promote secular humanism and left-wing ideologies. It would not really undermine their agenda to find pro-Catholic interpretations because the secular humanist base is much stronger. We can try to warn Catholics about the true intentions of the creators of Frozen. I do think that stories should be enjoyable to both Catholics and anti-Catholics, but they should not antagonize the faith.

 

[Robyn_p]

I dont think any of the movies or tv my generation grew up on, was bad or cruddy, it was just made for kids, naturally, most adults did not prefer to watch them, not because they were bad, but just because they were made for kids, I know personally I would never go out and watch an animated kids movie on my own, they are made for kids, not adults.

“A children’s story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children’s story in the slightest.”

• CS Lewis

Honestly, the “kids stuff” today, like Pixar’s films, are much more creative and worthwhile than a lot of “adult” entertainment out there.

 

[Gertabelle]

I dont think any of the movies or tv my generation grew up on, was bad or cruddy, it was just made for kids, naturally, most adults did not prefer to watch them, not because they were bad, but just because they were made for kids, I know personally I would never go out and watch an animated kids movie on my own, they are made for kids, not adults.

It seems today, the producers are trying to blur the genres, and who knows, the reason could be to push certain agendas, now that they know adults are watching too…if you recall, back in the 70s and 80s, there was not a lot of agenda in kids entertainment back then.

You must not have grown up with the same kids’ movies and TV shows I did then. I remember TV shows like:

“Scooby Doo”
“Almighty Isis”
“Shazam”
“Smurfs”
“Care Bears”

And movies like:

Disney’s animate “Robin Hood”
“Escape to Witch Mountain”
“Annie”

I couldn’t stand to watch those movies now and barely tolerated them even as a child. They were trite, poorly acted, meaningless, sappy…

We have the TV station Qubo in our area (we use an antenna for TV). There are still some sappy, poorly produced shows. But there are some high quality productions as well.

And consider contemporary movies for families:

“Inside Out”
“Zootopia”
“Chicken Run”
“Chicken Little”
“Finding Nemo”
“Cars”

Watching these movies with my son as he’s growing up gives us lots of starting points for excellent conversations about morals, choices, attitudes, friendship, family, and on and on and on.

I highly doubt I could do the same thing with Disney’s “Robin Hood” or “Escape to Witch Mountain.”

AND, I second Robyn P’s point that children’s entertainment should be ageless, or it’s not worth anyone’s time.

Just my two cents’…

 

[pensmama87]

“A children’s story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children’s story in the slightest.”

• CS Lewis

Honestly, the “kids stuff” today, like Pixar’s films, are much more creative and worthwhile than a lot of “adult” entertainment out there.

You must not have grown up with the same kids’ movies and TV shows I did then. I remember TV shows like:

“Scooby Doo”
“Almighty Isis”
“Shazam”
“Smurfs”
“Care Bears”

And movies like:

Disney’s animate “Robin Hood”
“Escape to Witch Mountain”
“Annie”

I couldn’t stand to watch those movies now and barely tolerated them even as a child. They were trite, poorly acted, meaningless, sappy…

We have the TV station Qubo in our area (we use an antenna for TV). There are still some sappy, poorly produced shows. But there are some high quality productions as well.

And consider contemporary movies for families:

“Inside Out”
“Zootopia”
“Chicken Run”
“Chicken Little”
“Finding Nemo”
“Cars”

Watching these movies with my son as he’s growing up gives us lots of starting points for excellent conversations about morals, choices, attitudes, friendship, family, and on and on and on.

I highly doubt I could do the same thing with Disney’s “Robin Hood” or “Escape to Witch Mountain.”

AND, I second Robyn P’s point that children’s entertainment should be ageless, or it’s not worth anyone’s time.

Just my two cents’…

Sorry, OP, after reading further on this thread I just think you are completely wrong on what you see in Hans. I think you see it because you want to. Which is fine, but don’t expect us to be persuaded (and don’t turn it in as a paper for a film class!)

 

[MPat]

I do think that Frozen was intended to promote secular humanism and left-wing ideologies.

Can you actually prove that?

For unless you can (and it looks like you haven’t done so in this thread), you really should avoid assigning evil intentions to the creators of that movie.

After all, as the Catechism says in paragraph 2478: “To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way”…

It would not really undermine their agenda to find pro-Catholic interpretations because the secular humanist base is much stronger. We can try to warn Catholics about the true intentions of the creators of Frozen. I do think that stories should be enjoyable to both Catholics and anti-Catholics, but they should not antagonize the faith.

That seems to be a wrong comparison. You shouldn’t compare your influence with Disney’s influence, but your influence using one strategy and your influence using another one.

Now, using your strategy, you are only likely to affect people, who are not just Catholics, but Catholics that are sympathetic to conspiracy theories of such kind (although it is true that they do not have to describe themselves as “conspiracy theorists”, as you did). And the only result that could count as an improvement over doing nothing can be achieved if they haven’t seen “Frozen”, but would have seen it, and were persuaded not to. Given all those conditions (and that Catholics of such type would be less likely to see the movie in the first place), I’m afraid you’d be lucky to run into a single one…

On the other hand, “infiltration strategy” can let you influence any fans you can reach (5? 10? 15? I have no idea…). And in this case the result is no longer “all or nothing”: you can afford to “plant the seed”.

Given all that, I’d say that “infiltration strategy” is much better in this case.

 

[anon67074017]

Can you actually prove that?

For unless you can (and it looks like you haven’t done so in this thread), you really should avoid assigning evil intentions to the creators of that movie.

After all, as the Catechism says in paragraph 2478: “To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way”…

That seems to be a wrong comparison. You shouldn’t compare your influence with Disney’s influence, but your influence using one strategy and your influence using another one.

Now, using your strategy, you are only likely to affect people, who are not just Catholics, but Catholics that are sympathetic to conspiracy theories of such kind (although it is true that they do not have to describe themselves as “conspiracy theorists”, as you did). And the only result that could count as an improvement over doing nothing can be achieved if they haven’t seen “Frozen”, but would have seen it, and were persuaded not to. Given all those conditions (and that Catholics of such type would be less likely to see the movie in the first place), I’m afraid you’d be lucky to run into a single one…

On the other hand, “infiltration strategy” can let you influence any fans you can reach (5? 10? 15? I have no idea…). And in this case the result is no longer “all or nothing”: you can afford to “plant the seed”.

Given all that, I’d say that “infiltration strategy” is much better in this case.

I can prove that Frozen promotes the liberal agenda. Director Jennifer Lee admitted in a tweet that Frozen promotes feminism. The feminism shown in the film is left-wing feminism. Jennifer Lee is also a liberal herself who admires outspoken atheist Christopher Hitchens. I guess your strategy may work better than my strategy.

 

[pensmama87]

The feminism shown in the film is left-wing feminism.

How so?

Having strong female characters is not, I hope, in and of itself a sign of any particular political worldview.

 

[anon67074017]

How so?

Having strong female characters is not, I hope, in and of itself a sign of any particular political worldview.

The film shames men such as a Hans and the Duke of Weselton. Kristoff is viewed as somewhat unreliable by Elsa in Frozen Fever.

 

[jtauke]

The film shames men such as a Hans and the Duke of Weselton. Kristoff is viewed as somewhat unreliable by Elsa in Frozen Fever.

Men that deserve to be shamed.