Frustrated with a situation dealing with molestor

[StephanieC]

Deb1, have you read the book, “Protecting the Gift” by Gavin deBecker?

If not, you and your hubby must read it at once! (It’s probably at your local library.)

Can’t recommend it enough. It will open your eyes to all of the dynamics in the situation you’ve described, from the wacky reasoning on your neighbor’s part, to the second-guessing of your own intuition.

Please read it, for your daughter’s sake!

 

[rayne89]

Her husband is being neive and you are perfectly in the right to keep your daughter away.

I know everyone is outraged but the truth is this kind of acceptance is extremely common when child sexual abuse happens with in families. Unfortunately I have more friends that were abused as children than friends who were not. Each and every family welcomed the molester back and not a single one was ever prosecuted for their crimes.

The closest one to me is my bestfriend who was abused by her much older her brother-in-law starting at the age of nine. My friend and I became friends when we were 12 while this was still going on. When she confided in me I urged her to tell someone. To my shock and horror she already had -her mother. Her mother did nothing -they lived with her sister and brother-in-law. Her mother thought the sister would not believe her or blame my friend (who was 12) and kick them out. Her mother just told her to stay away from him and not to wear anything revealing.

We walked to the local hardware store and I bought my friend a lock for her bedroom door to keep him out. We installed it ourselves. It finally came out when my friend went to counseling for being suicidal. Was the man prosecuted? No. Was he forced to leave the home? No. He blamed it on drinking and everyone readily accepted that. Social services told them he was not allowed to be alone with her -that was the extent of it. He never did try anything again, thank God but the damage was done.

This man is still very much a part of the family. Now more than 20 years have passed. He did go to counseling for many years. He now attends church and seems to have ammended his ways. My friend says she has forgiven him though the scars she will carry for the rest of her life. Constantly battleing an eating disorder, chronic depression, difficulty with intimacy with her husband among other things. He is at all the family functions we attend. I truly want to believe he has changed but I am still guarded. My husband and I always keep watch on where our daughter is in proximity to him. And he also knows that I know what he did.

Some people might be outraged that I would even allow my daughter in his presence. It a choice a made knowing extremely well the circumstances of the situation.The truth is we all must be guarded. I guarantee you not one of you could pick him out as a child molester. There is not one ounce of weirdness about him. He is very masculine, very personable, dresses and acts very conservative - he reeks of normalcy. Chances are you’ve already been around one. So do not let your guard down.

 

[Sabda]

People that do this kind of thing to children NEVER do it to just one child. Anyone that believes that is nuts! The guy has likely done these things for a long time before he got caught. I would not only point him out to my daughter but I would tell her why she should stay away from him, and alert the neighbors with flyers and a picture of the guy. Also call the local paper as well as the cops and any local schools (they should already know but never too careful) With enough attention on the person you will be surprised how quickly your neighbor’s husband will change his mind about having the guy around. As an example of what can happen we recently found a convicted child molestor working at a local elementary school. Don’t assume those that need to know the information already do.

We have a sex offender living in our area. My dh wanted to do this. We ended up not doing it. WHY? Because there are laws in place to protect these people. What you are basically talking about is a witch hunt in the making. That will help no one. The man has done his time and deserves to be able to get on with his life, as it is now.

The best thing a parent in these circumstances can do is simply warn you children and keep a very sharp eye on them when they are outside.

I have to agree with blessed, there is no excuse for that other man to be working in the school system. I work as a sub and when you apply the application specifically states that they will be doing a background check on you. The administration clearly failed to do a background check on him. If they had they would have known he was a molester.

 

[Lorik]

Of course I would not trust the man to be alone with my or any children. However, if you are there and are keeping an eye on the situation, things will be fine.
Don’t get so wrapped up in keeping your child away from known molesters that you forget about the molesters that are unknown. There are way more unknown molesters lurking around than known.

 

[deb1]

Of course I would not trust the man to be alone with my or any children. However, if you are there and are keeping an eye on the situation, things will be fine.
Don’t get so wrapped up in keeping your child away from known molesters that you forget about the molesters that are unknown. There are way more unknown molesters lurking around than known.

Of course I agree that there are unknown molesters. Simply because I am concerned by this man does not mean that I ignore everything else.

It only takes a moment for a child to be abused. My daughter is 11. It is very difficult to keep an 11 in the company of adults during a Christmas party with other kids. She would be bored and fidgety. It is much easier and safer not to attend.

I can only protect my daughters from the dangers that I know about. This man is one known danger that I can avoid.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

While I understand your obvious disgust at this man’s acts and no-one in their right thinking mind can defend these acts. I cannot and will not condone persecution of someone who has committed these kinds of crimes.

Too bad. He was prosocuted and convicted. Persecuted implies he is underserving or unjustly treated. I disagree. I think that 11 year old girl was not given justice and deserves better than to know he still walks the streets. He shouldn’t be out of jail.

The man explains away his acts as someone else’s fault because he cannot face the total debase line he has crossed, his psychology simply cannot handle it.
They are therefore dangerous to children, period, no-one is disputing this; to coin a phrase they are ‘mad and bad’.
studies have been conducted in efforts to reform offenders not to sympathise with them.
These studies aren’t in place to make the offender feel comfortable, they are designed to reform them and that will make them most uncomfortable.
it is based on years of research and psychological profiling, of working closely with offenders and making every effort to find out what works and what does not work.
**By your own words they are not capable of reform because accepting that what they are doing and have done for the heinous acts they are would destroy them mentally and emotionally. **And you neglict to note the kids that are left in the wake of efforts that did not work.

It is clear it does not work to leave offenders to their own devices, they will most likely re-offend. It is clear that driving offenders underground will lead to re-offending,
I agree and said so already. If given the chance and choice, they will continue to do as they please.
so the awful situation is that someone has to help the person who is capable of harming children
No not really. Frankly, if they are that dangerous - they should never step out of a prison again.

Most child abusers have been abused themselves,
So what? I’m so sick of hearing about the poor criminal whatever. You are proposing one of two situations that have the same result for these child predators.

1. They have no way to control their craving and have no ability to change their behavior because of whatever alphabet soup label inflicted upon them in their twisted past. In which case, they need life in prison.

2. They can control it but need to be monitored because they don’t want to control it. In which case, they need life in prison, because they will find a way to get what they crave.
It goes without saying that what this man has done is pure evil.
I’m not inclined to think one can reform pure evil either.
But if children are to be protected in the future it does no good to say ‘string them up or drive them outta town’.
**I completely disagree. Again there’s at least 2 other options. Life or death penalty. The only reason I’m not for death, is because of the possible error against an innocent. But my heavens if this guy has the moxy to be admiting it and blaming the 11 year old!? **

People may like to know where offenders are in their community so that parents can take measures to protect their children,
**You know what’s wrong with that? Why should innocent parents have to be so fearful?! Why the heck aren’t the punishments severe enough that THE CRIMINALS run in fear! And that offender list didn’t do anything for the girl that got him on it. Not one danged thing and bet it’s not much comfort to her now either. **
it would be wrong to make this persons life a misery and cause them hardship where they cannot function in the community
No it wouldn’t be wrong at all. And if the guy was in prison it wouldn’t be an issue.
unreasonable to treat the offender badly.
I guess I don’t get what you think is treating him badly.
**I don’t think anyone here (including me) has suggested anything “bad” (violent or even particuliarly harsh given his crime) be done to this man other than to make sure he is a social outcast. **
Again, if he was in prison where he should be it wouldn’t be a problem.
And I really don’t give a flip why he says what he does.
He is a danger to the most vulnerable and precious of society. He admits it and takes no blame for it. Lock him up.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Of course I agree that there are unknown molesters. Simply because I am concerned by this man does not mean that I ignore everything else.
Of course! I’m not sure why anyone thinks otherwise.

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It only takes a moment for a child to be abused.
**Exactly. You know what nearly every parent says whentheir child is kidnapped or abused? “I didn’t think it could happen…” “I was only lost sight of them for a mintue or two…” “I always thought I was protective enough…” **

I can only protect my daughters from the dangers that I know about. This man is one known danger that I can avoid.
That’s right on target, imho. We can’t protect them all the time, but we do as much as we can as often as we can.

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I’d rather say I was too worried than live with the heart ripping regret of wondering if I could have prevented it for the rest of my life.

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And I think it’s downright scandelous to accept these predators in our social circles and families as decent people. There’s no way i’d be able to have a civil conversation with such a man/woman and I wouldn’t want to try either.

**To those whose families have accepted these criminals for whatever reason and, worse, not protected their children from them - my heart breaks. ****I can’t even imagine any of my kids telling me someone was abusing them like this (at all really) and doing NOTHING. **

 

[sanctamaria17]

Yeah, the guy kind of gave up his right to be around kids when he started abusing them.

SHE’S 11!!! She in no way could have given informed consent. Even if she did “ask”, he’s a grown man and should have controlled himself. She has no idea what’s going on and he should be the responsible one.

Honestly, if I ever witnessed that kind of treatment, that guy wouldn’t know what hit him.

“Persecution?” How is he being persecuted? Most people who commit crimes like rape and molestation are repeat offenders and the justice system lets them off way too easily. They should NEVER be let on the streets again!

I can’t believe any father would allow such a man into his house. My father wouldn’t even want to be in a 10 mile radius of someone who has committed these crimes and is extremely protective of us (I live five hours away but still, I always get a lecture about having common sense in the city, etc.) All the men in my life, be it my father, uncle, grandfather, godfather, priest, mentor, guy friends, etc. are very protective and would kill the guy if he ever made it to any of their houses. Maybe I’m exaggerating but still. The point is yes, God calls us to forgive but no way in heck should we put children at risk in the name of charity.

 

[blessedstar]

If this man was to confess his sins with a firm resolve not to commit the same sins again then God would forgive Him and yet here are people who say they love God saying that this man deserves no love, deserves no good treatment because he is a sinner worse than anyone else.

OK all of you who hate this man and those men like him and even some women who abuse children, you cast the first stone at this man if you are without sin.

You may live in a secular world, you may want your pound of flesh, but when you have had it what will you do with it, what good will it do your soul?

The man has sinned and children should be protected but I can’t buy into this hatred and that is exactly what it is, hatred for another human being created by God even though they have gravely sinned.

Well cast your stones if it makes you feel better, but we shall be treated with the same mercy we have shown others. Jesus makes no distinction, He didn’t say, ‘You can leave out child abusers they are not worth any mercy not from you, not from Me, they don’t deserve anything’

None of you sinners deserve anything. You all have sinned, including me. I am not a child abuser, neither are you, but the fact remains you are a sinner and Jesus died as much for you as He did for this man.

Love is not easy. But if you will not love the sinner, who will you love, there is no-one to love then as God has said to love Him is to love each other:

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left.
34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink?
38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing?
39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’
40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’
45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

If a soul pursues justice they must temper it with mercy or else justice simply becomes cruelty.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[sanctamaria17]

I don’t hate him and I would forgive him. Doesn’t mean I’d have to let my kids around him.

What about protecting each other from temptation? Wouldn’t that be loving and Christlike?

It is a KNOWN fact that most of these criminals are repeat offenders. At times, they don’t even want to do it but feel powerless to stop. They are psychologically sick and cure rate is next to nothing for them. It’s just too dangerous to risk.

This is not like other crimes where money gets stolen or someone gets lied to. This is a crime involving the innocence of children. If someone had a record, I’d definitely keep my kids away.

I agree, the laws of this nation are too lenient for these criminals and only serve to put fear in the hearts of the innocent, not the guilty. Personally, I don’t think they should be let back on the streets. It’s just too dangerous.

 

[blessedstar]

I don’t hate him and I would forgive him. Doesn’t mean I’d have to let my kids around him.

What about protecting each other from temptation? Wouldn’t that be loving and Christlike?

It is a KNOWN fact that most of these criminals are repeat offenders. At times, they don’t even want to do it but feel powerless to stop. They are psychologically sick and cure rate is next to nothing for them. It’s just too dangerous to risk.

This is not like other crimes where money gets stolen or someone gets lied to. This is a crime involving the innocence of children. If someone had a record, I’d definitely keep my kids away.

I agree, the laws of this nation are too lenient for these criminals and only serve to put fear in the hearts of the innocent, not the guilty. Personally, I don’t think they should be let back on the streets. It’s just too dangerous.

Hi Sancta Maria
If you read the rest of my posts you will see that I do not thinking it is loving to put the man in temptations way. I feel like I am repeating myself, so if you wouldn’t mind Maria, would you please read my posts previous to this one.

The re-offending rate is very high, there is alot of work to be done to reform child abusers and children and vunerable adults should always be protected. I agree that the law should be more tight and also carry heavier sentences, but at some point when a person has served their time, they have paid their debt to society they must return to society and they must be supported to live as a positive member of society.

Have a good day

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[Lorik]

Great post blessedstar!!! Jesus was crucified for all sinners. Including child molesters. He loves them and we must follow suit and love as well.
I’m not saying put a child in danger. Of course supervise any situation with your children. IMHO we trust our kids with too many people.
But to avoid the man like a leper and even worse to suspect a relative who wants him invited, to having like sins, is shameful.
We have this situation with an in-law. Let me tell you the easy thing to do is to recoil and cut off all communication. However, I am a Christian and as a Christian, Christ expects more from me. It has been a struggle and will always be a struggle. But I have been (just as we all have been) asked by my Savior to show him Christ’s love. Christ desires all men to be saved. If you shun the man, how does that make Christians look? How does that make Christ look? I would suspect it wouldn’t drive the man to repent and love the Christ who we proclaim to love.

 

[IrishAm]

But to avoid the man like a leper and even worse to suspect a relative who wants him invited him to having like sins, is shameful.
We have this situation with an in-law. Let me tell you the easy thing to do is to recoil and cut off all communication. However, I am a Christian and as a Christian, Christ expects more from me. It has been a struggle and will always be a struggle. But I have been (just as we all have been) asked by my Savior to show him Christ’s love. Christ desires all men to be saved. If you shun the man, how does that make Christians look? How does that make Christ look? I would suspect it wouldn’t drive the man to repent and love the Christ who we proclaim to love.

It is a very sad fact that, to protect our children – which should be a Christian parent’s PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY – one may indeed be called to exclude others, no matter how repentent they may seem to be. Child predators are exceptionally capable of gaining trust of parents and children. That is how they are able to get away with the horror they inflict. Seeing parents act in social, welcoming ways to someone allows that person to use the argument with a child – “see, your mommy and daddy (or grandma, grandpa, neighbor, friend) like me; they would be happy we are friends.”

Christ was clear about his opinions of those who would harm the “little ones.” As should we all be. . .

 

[deb1]

Great post blessedstar!!! Jesus was crucified for all sinners. Including child molesters. He loves them and we must follow suit and love as well.
I’m not saying put a child in danger. Of course supervise any situation with your children. IMHO we trust our kids with too many people.
But to avoid the man like a leper and even worse to suspect a relative who wants him invited, to having like sins, is shameful.
We have this situation with an in-law. Let me tell you the easy thing to do is to recoil and cut off all communication. However, I am a Christian and as a Christian, Christ expects more from me. It has been a struggle and will always be a struggle. But I have been (just as we all have been) asked by my Savior to show him Christ’s love. Christ desires all men to be saved. If you shun the man, how does that make Christians look? How does that make Christ look? I would suspect it wouldn’t drive the man to repent and love the Christ who we proclaim to love.

I would agree expect…this man is not related to the family really. The family in question does have a young child and knew that they would be inviting a girl the age range of the girl that he has molested.

Just for the record, I have made no suggestion that the man who did the molesting be isolated from other humans. But he should not be around children. That was my point and why I asked in the first place.

If my and my neighbor’s family were childless this would be a different situation but we are not.

 

[blessedstar]

It is a very sad fact that, to protect our children – which should be a Christian parent’s PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY – one may indeed be called to exclude others, no matter how repentent they may seem to be. Child predators are exceptionally capable of gaining trust of parents and children. That is how they are able to get away with the horror they inflict. Seeing parents act in social, welcoming ways to someone allows that person to use the argument with a child – “see, your mommy and daddy (or grandma, grandpa, neighbor, friend) like me; they would be happy we are friends.”

Christ was clear about his opinions of those who would harm the “little ones.” As should we all be. . .

No-one said invite him around for a weekend at the coast and be best buddies with this guy, people choose their friends, friends are not forced on people. But a smile in passing, a nod of the head, a card at Christmas, that is a small kind act to another human being. If your children are not with you, a passing conversation about the weather, that sort of thing.

It doesn’t take much. Keep the boundaries with child abusers, keep the children away from him, but be kind to him in small ways if the opportunity arises

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[deb1]

No-one said invite him around for a weekend at the coast and be best buddies with this guy, people choose their friends, friends are not forced on people. But a smile in passing, a nod of the head, a card at Christmas, that is a small kind act to another human being. If your children are not with you, a passing conversation about the weather, that sort of thing.

It doesn’t take much. Keep the boundaries with child abusers, keep the children away from him, but be kind to him in small ways if the opportunity arises

In the Living Prayer of my life

I understand your sentiment and it would be admirable except…sometimes such small gestures can lead the person into believing that they can push their way further into your family. If you do not have children then this might not be bad, but having children means that you can’t take any risks.

Just imagine for a moment that a child is abducting by someone who, the mother knowing the person was a child molestor, sent Christmas cards to. Can you imagine the field day the news would have with that mother’s actions? She would be partly blamed by the media for her child’s abduction and might possibly loose custody of her other kids.

.

 

[Lorik]

I understand your sentiment and it would be admirable except…sometimes such small gestures can lead the person into believing that they can push their way further into your family. If you do not have children then this might not be bad, but having children means that you can’t take any risks.

Just imagine for a moment that a child is abducting by someone who, the mother knowing the person was a child molestor, sent Christmas cards to. Can you imagine the field day the news would have with that mother’s actions? She would be partly blamed by the media for her child’s abduction and might possibly loose custody of her other kids.

.

As long as you are always there, what can happen?
Tell the child to stay with you. Or why not just get a sitter?

 

[deb1]

As long as you are always there, what can happen?
Tell the child to stay with you. Or why not just get a sitter?

As I said before, no one can watch their children 100% of the time. Should I tell my daughter that she can’t play with her friend but has to sit with the adults? Why should she be punished for his actions?

As far as a sitter, why even go to the party? What is the point of going? I don’t need to be there and if I want, I can visit with my friend at my own home.

I was molested in my parents’ home, myself. So, I know from experience that it only takes one brief moment.

 

[blessedstar]

I understand your sentiment and it would be admirable except…sometimes such small gestures can lead the person into believing that they can push their way further into your family. If you do not have children then this might not be bad, but having children means that you can’t take any risks.

Just imagine for a moment that a child is abducting by someone who, the mother knowing the person was a child molestor, sent Christmas cards to. Can you imagine the field day the news would have with that mother’s actions? She would be partly blamed by the media for her child’s abduction and might possibly loose custody of her other kids.

.

As a mother too I know your situation. There is a man living on our street who is a convicted child offender as it transpired to be true. No-one is kind to him, no-one speaks to him. Well I spoke firmly but kindly to that man and said, ‘I cannot be friends with you in the way people are friends because as a mother I have to be prudent, but I am not your enemy either. What you have done is a terrible thing, but you have served your time. I would like for us to speak in passing when I am not with my child, but under no circumstances do you talk to or approach my child or anyone else’s child.’ He said I was the first person in years to speak to him kindly like he was a human being and he thanked me.

My child is aware of not going off with anyone unless I have told her to and they know the ‘password’ that she knows. I have pointed the man out to my child. I only see this man in passing occassionally. My daughter knows not to have anything to do with that man no matter what he may say to her.

This man only says hello to me and that conversation took place 4 years ago. He keeps himself to himself and there has been no problems. I can’t imagine what it means for only one person to speak to you in the whole of your community, he is still paying the price for his sins, but I take Jesus’ charge seriously and so I do the very small unnoticeable kindness of saying hello to that man every once in while when our paths happen to cross and I am not with my child, I have not seen him for months. He always has the biggest smile for me.

Don’t worry about the media, they hate the Catholic Church and everything it preaches.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[IrishAm]

I was molested in my parents’ home, myself. So, I know from experience that it only takes one brief moment.

Amen. Thank you for your comment.

The approach a molester used to attempt to gain my then 6-year-old’s confidence (we were very lucky his ruse was interrupted when I realized he was speaking to her) was that his BROTHER HAD MOWED OUR LAWN. Children are innocent. We should protect them, and protect them ferociously, so they remain so.