Frustrated with talking during Mass

[Lacour]

I don’t know if this will help or hurt, but as one of the parents you describe I “see and raise” your frustration. It’s incredibly hard to concentrate at Mass with a wiggly two year old in your lap, pulling your hair, asking what’s happening, telling you it’s time to go, etc. Of course it’s not always that bad, but I swear my kids ratchet up the behavior in direct proportion to how much I want/need to pay attention (Christmas Eve/Ash Wednesday were nightmares).

Unfortunately the only cure I’ve found is to take them faithfully every week so they can learn to behave. Maybe try saying a prayer for the parents that they will be granted the patience and fortitude to stick with it until the kids are older and more capable of sitting still.

One kind of funny side effect, my two year old is unfailingly polite and loud. It just hurts his heart for any one to leave without a hearty “ba-bye”. I’ve noticed a clear decrease in the people leaving Mass early on our side of the Church since he started announcing their departure for the whole church.

 

[Jegudiel]

We have an aging population in my parish the loudest are the elderly because they are hard of hearing, especially during the quiet daily Masses we have. There is one couple that belt out the old responses instead of the new. At the quiet time after Communion, the husband always has something to say to his wife in a loud voice. He thinks he is wispering. ** It all comes with the territory.** The members of the Body of Christ are not perfect, and the Masses we come together and celebrate will not be perfect either. Hopefully patience and long suffering and just about all the other fruits of the Holy Spirit come into play and are developed at Mass as well as out in the world.

You know what though, it really doesn’t. The pastor of that parish should speak to that couple in private with great tact. More than likely that would be the end of it. But there always seems to be an excuse not to.

There are two extremely rude older men that talk loudly during Mass. Their conversations are like cancer – it causes a spread of other conversations. When one of them goes on vacation the church is far quieter. People have talked to them and to the pastor to no avail. Spin it any way you like but that’s terribly wrong.

 

[PazzoGrande]

People have talked to them and to the pastor to no avail.

My. Is there anyone here who worked or volunteered for a parish who’d know how to deal with cases like these?

Is it ever wrong to ask people like that to leave?

 

[Jegudiel]

My. Is there anyone here who worked or volunteered for a parish who’d know how to deal with cases like these?

Is it ever wrong to ask people like that to leave?

The pastor has to do the talking. In my parish my pastor simply will not unless it gets really terrible. Then it stops. Otherwise the talkers seem to get almost defiant, even to those their own age or even older.

I was once on a work assignment and the pastor at the parish I visited mentioned right after his homily that there had been complaints of loud talking before and after Mass in the church (it was fairly bad.) He comments were extremely tactful but firm. He also had a nice notice in the bulletin. The following Sunday was very different, far quieter. One of the few priests I have ever seen deal with this matter in an effective manner.

I think if anyone other than a cleric asked the offenders to leave, they would just get louder. It might be different if we had ushers (and it would be different if it was a secular event like the symphony or opera) but things are often “different” in the Church.

 

[PazzoGrande]

The pastor has to do the talking. In my parish my pastor simply will not unless it gets really terrible. Then it stops. Otherwise the talkers seem to get almost defiant, even to those their own age or even older.

I was once on a work assignment and the pastor at the parish I visited mentioned right after his homily that there had been complaints of loud talking before and after Mass in the church (it was fairly bad.) He comments were extremely tactful but firm. He also had a nice notice in the bulletin. The following Sunday was very different, far quieter. One of the few priests I have ever seen deal with this matter in an effective manner.

I think if anyone other than a cleric asked the offenders to leave, they would just get louder. It might be different if we had ushers (and it would be different if it was a secular event like the symphony or opera) but things are often “different” in the Church.

What’s your opinion of the case I mentioned in Post #2? With your experience, what can be dealt with distractive parishioners who don’t talk but move around in a distracting way? I suppose one could ask the priest to do something about it, but how would the priest in turn act on it? It’s such a sensitive topic, far more sensitive than noisy people.

 

[Jegudiel]

What’s your opinion of the case I mentioned in Post #2? With your experience, what can be dealt with distractive parishioners who don’t talk but move around in a distracting way? I suppose one could ask the priest to do something about it, but how would the priest in turn act on it? It’s such a sensitive topic, far more sensitive than noisy people.

In that case it sounds like you have a recurring problem. It needs to dealt with outside of Mass in a tactful way by the pastor. We had a similar situation with a mentally unstable parishioner who really took a toll on the Masses she attended (often several on any given Sunday.) At least two pastors did absolutely nothing except to plead with people not to remove her from Mass when comments because especially ugly. Terrible, terrible apathy.

Finally an associate pastor (an extremely tactful man) dealt with the issue once and for all. When she would come to Mass after that she would be silent. I think the fact that a priest finally talked to her after all those years was all it really took.

To answer your question, your pastor is going to have to be willing to take the time to engage the person. Too many simply don’t want to take the time or make the effort to confront very difficult situations like this. The alternative is worse though.

 

[PazzoGrande]

In that case it sounds like you have a recurring problem. It needs to dealt with outside of Mass in a tactful way by the pastor. We had a similar situation with a mentally unstable parishioner who really took a toll on the Masses she attended (often several on any given Sunday.)

Thanks for the responses. What sort of things did she do?

 

[Jegudiel]

Thanks for the responses. What sort of things did she do?

She would walk around during Mass alternately blessing and cursing people with a Rosary she carried. She wore a tinfoil mitre. She would blurt out insults during the Mass. I know she would walk by me, look at me and loudly proclaim “you Jew!!” which I always took as a compliment.

Unfortunately she also took a real toll on things. I was thankful that one parochial vicar had what it took to deal with her in a positive manner.

There is a HUGE difference between people doing things like holding hands, wearing the wrong color vestments, odd vestments, etc. and people loudly talking before, during and after Mass. You can simply close or divert your eyes to one matter. The other is far more difficult to deal with.

 

[PazzoGrande]

She would walk around during Mass alternately blessing and cursing people with a Rosary she carried. She wore a tinfoil mitre. She would blurt out insults during the Mass. I know she would walk by me, look at me and loudly proclaim “you Jew!!” which I always took as a compliment.

I thought I had it bad! I wonder why the priests wouldn’t let you guys remove her. It’s not unreasonable to think she might get violent with you. Our Cathedral here is downtown and homeless people sometimes go, some of whom are unstable, and one injured an usher who fell and hit her head upon being assulted, she got hospitalised and everything.

The Cathedral is in downtown and has had the occassional mentally unstable homeless person come in. Mostly they behave but once a guy came in and began yelling at us for behaving like Jews, and he was removed. Another time last year, a guy who was apparently on drugs came in and was walking around in front during the Liturgy of the Word (everyone was seated so he was very conspicuous, especially given the monastic seating arrangement and the small size of the place) presumably asking people for handouts. He was removed too. He looked like he might have gotten violent.

 

[etmom]

I don’t know if this will help or hurt, but as one of the parents you describe I “see and raise” your frustration. It’s incredibly hard to concentrate at Mass with a wiggly two year old in your lap, pulling your hair, asking what’s happening, telling you it’s time to go, etc. Of course it’s not always that bad, but I swear my kids ratchet up the behavior in direct proportion to how much I want/need to pay attention (Christmas Eve/Ash Wednesday were nightmares).

Unfortunately the only cure I’ve found is to take them faithfully every week so they can learn to behave. Maybe try saying a prayer for the parents that they will be granted the patience and fortitude to stick with it until the kids are older and more capable of sitting still.

One kind of funny side effect, my two year old is unfailingly polite and loud. It just hurts his heart for any one to leave without a hearty “ba-bye”. I’ve noticed a clear decrease in the people leaving Mass early on our side of the Church since he started announcing their departure for the whole church.

We struggle mightily with our two year old as well. She is our 5th child, and I was pretty smug about how well our other children behaved in Mass. Then she came along. I suddenly realized, it wasn’t our outstanding parenting skills which made controlling our others much easier during Mass. It was their temperments/abilities. We have tried the exact same things with her as her older siblings, and she is just a whirlwind of constant motion in everyday life and isn’t as verbal as her siblings at that age. We have no cry room. If she becomes disruptive, we go to the lobby outside the Cathedral. It is helpful to quietly whisper to her about things that are going on in the Mass, and point them out (we sit near the front of huge Cathedral, sitting near the front allows her to see what is going on, and produces the best behavior). I will always take her out rather than let her get disruptive. Some people view any movement/noise whatsoever as unacceptable, however. And the more we take her out of Mass, the more she wants to leave.

We site in approximately the same place every week, we get to Mass early. So you would think if it greatly disturbed people, they wouldn’t sit near us. This does not seem to be the case. But it is discouraging to have people glare at us, if she has been perfect for say 10 minutes, then says something suddenly or drops the songbook. All my other children are sitting there displaying near perfect behavior, you’d think we’d get some “credit” for not being the awful parents who won’t teach appropriate church behavior. Rarely we have attended the Saturday evening Mass, and the tolerance for children from parishioners at that Mass is very low and we only attend if absolutely necessary, if I have to work on Sunday.

It is not always lack of effort or desire.

 

[Carolus_Martell]

Offer it up, stay on the clock and concentrate.

My weak link is women’s attire, if I see certain things I get off track and start calculating. Consequently my defense is tunnel vision.

 

[InspiritCarol]

My. Is there anyone here who worked or volunteered for a parish who’d know how to deal with cases like these?

Is it ever wrong to ask people like that to leave?

Yes. When I cantored in inner-city churches & cathedrals, we always had large ushers on hand to coordinate politeness and be a bit more directly hands-on. Those ushers were instructed ahead of time what was acceptible and not. Parents *instructing *their children was *always *acceptible.

So, charity must extend to the whole congregation. If single people are … at Mass for the wrong reasons, they must be corrected.

But, that does *in no way *include parents who are instructing their children. This should be done as quietly as possible, but unless you plan to step up and offer real catechesis classes for the youth, back off from the dirty looks shot at parents who are actually living their faith.

(I’m speaking directly to the nasty man two rows in front of me who spent more time focused on me than the altar: he was LOOKING for my children to misbehave! So when I whispered quietly to my 3 year old in wonder “Look what the priest is doing - that’s becoming Jesus”, the nasty man crinkled his face at me and shot SO MUCH VENOM at us that I know he would have liked us to have died on the spot).

Live your faith but don’t think you know what’s going in other’s hearts.

All this should be dealt with through a Liturgy Committee and the pastor.

 

[PazzoGrande]

Yes.
(…)
Live your faith but don’t think you know what’s going in other’s hearts.

What I specifically was referring to was the case where people kept conversing unecessarily during Mass even after asked not to, to the point where it would get very loud (it was a reply to post #22). I wasn’t referring to parents with rowdy children. So in cases where people talk for no good reason to the point where their loud conversations really ruin the solemnity and mood of the Mass, and they don’t listen when asked to stop talking, in those cases is it wrong to ask them to go?

It could also apply to post #28 – if the parishioner in question did not submit and still behaved the way she did, shouldn’t she be asked to leave? Yelling bizarre insults to people is grounds for removal, wouldn’t you say?

 

[InspiritCarol]

What I specifically was referring to was the case where people kept conversing unecessarily during Mass even after asked not to, to the point where it would get very loud (it was a reply to post #22). I wasn’t referring to parents with rowdy children. So in cases where people talk for no good reason to the point where their loud conversations really ruin the solemnity and mood of the Mass, and they don’t listen when asked to stop talking, in those cases is it wrong to ask them to go?

Sorry to get all ranty. It (ahem) wasn’t about you … there’s a *lot *going on right now, I probably shouldn’t be posting, but since I started …

It is perfectly fine and *expected *to ask those disrupting Mass to leave. BUT this should be done by trained, formal ushers. Things may still get ugly, but they have a MUCH lower probability of doing so. The pastor must be involved if at all possible.

Once a naked man tried running up the main aisle and was tackled by the ushers. They didn’t have to run that one by the pastor first. However, it is a known infliction of seniors that the part of the brain that produces inhibitions is altered so that they may say things that are inappropriate. We should tolerate them as much as we possibly can. Altering their routine can be devastating for them. In such a case the pastor must be consulted regarding the most charitable way of handling such. Perhaps by assigning caretakers during Mass (?).

It could also apply to post #28 – if the parishioner in question did not submit and still behaved the way she did, shouldn’t she be asked to leave? Yelling bizarre insults to people is grounds for removal, wouldn’t you say?

… Generally … there are just so many unknowns …
For the old couple … well, someone should check to make sure their hearing aids are working right. Maybe they turn them down because the music is too loud … I don’t know.
For the two old men, some “loving” person needs to start sitting between them. A cranky old woman or something I don’t know.

Recently I had to take out a stalking order against a woman like the one described in #28. She had decided I was “coming against God’s church” and had set about stopping me in any way possible including death threats and threatening my children.

Even though she was clearly disturbed, some few in the congregation thought I was the bad-guy for “shutting out someone from church”. When action is taken there is ALWAYS push-back; but *inaction *is stagnation and death. Never “just ignore”. Instead, actively ignore if necessary. As noted earlier: “give it up to God”. Take charge of your actions never feel like you are being forced by another to behave in a certain way. Does that make sense?

When in doubt:
-Check with your pastor
-Offer solutions
-If asked to by your pastor: *actively *ignore the distractions.

I probably shouldn’t mention this but it’s been on my mind a lot in light of recent events … My Assembly of God friend told me that when people act up in that negative kind of manner at her church, they do an exorcism right there on the spot. Can you imagine?

We are not remotely inclined or equipped to do such in our service, but what kind of disservice are we doing when we shun and turn away the possessed or oppressed?

(Please I’m not looking for change - just wondering)…

 

[Jegudiel]

Sorry to get all ranty. It (ahem) wasn’t about you … there’s a *lot *going on right now, I probably shouldn’t be posting, but since I started …

It is perfectly fine and *expected *to ask those disrupting Mass to leave. BUT this should be done by trained, formal ushers. Things may still get ugly, but they have a MUCH lower probability of doing so. The pastor must be involved if at all possible.

Once a naked man tried running up the main aisle and was tackled by the ushers. They didn’t have to run that one by the pastor first. However, it is a known infliction of seniors that the part of the brain that produces inhibitions is altered so that they may say things that are inappropriate. We should tolerate them as much as we possibly can. Altering their routine can be devastating for them. In such a case the pastor must be consulted regarding the most charitable way of handling such. Perhaps by assigning caretakers during Mass (?)…

I strongly disagree. What you suggest sounds like nothing more than an excuse. People of all ages who lack common courtesy and continually interrupt the Mass need to be counseled in private and in a very tactful and charitable manner so they truly understand the impact of their behavior.

That takes a real effort though and many pastors it seems would rather just ignore the rude behavior.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

This one priest I know just put a sign in the narthex. “Respect for the Blessed Sacrament includes silence in the church.” He never had problems with people talking in church. Then again, people knew that they’d hear it from him if they did start talking. The sign won’t do a thing if the priest won’t back it up though.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with this passage. I don’t feel I’m passing judgment on people that are talking during Mass. Am I wrong to get frustrated when it happens?

I don’t think you are wrong nor do I think you are passing judgment, but I think frustration at the behavior of others, which you can’t control, is a sign of something.

Peace is a sign of the Holy Spirit. The spirit of aggrivation is never from God.

Pray for detachment, and then guns could be going off an you would still be at peace. Control what you can, pray for the rest and let it go into the hands of God. You will be at peace.

Sometimes we have to ask for the strength to do this. I used to think that serenity prayer was stupid, but it asks for the ablity to accept “hardships as a pathway to peace.”

-Tim-

 

[InspiritCarol]

I strongly disagree. What you suggest sounds like nothing more than an excuse. People of all ages who lack common courtesy and continually interrupt the Mass need to be counseled in private and in a very tactful and charitable manner so they truly understand the impact of their behavior.

That takes a real effort though and many pastors it seems would rather just ignore the rude behavior.

:sad_yes:

Well, since I agree with you, I must say that perhaps you have misunderstood me.

~sigh~

We must always keep our minds open to the opportunities to assist those who have trouble with this. Help them get to where they need to be: don’t shut them out. Don’t assume malice or even ignorance on the part of the perpetrators either. Yes?

Every case is different. There can be no blanket fix-all.

The sign in the narthex seems wise. Perhaps a sign posted strategically where the worst perpetrators can see it during Mass ?
~tee hee~
like in their hymnal ?
…orrr right on the pew in front of them ?
… orr have the person in front of them wear a t-shirt that has a silence logo???
Maybe not…

(Just dreaming) …

A workshop on sacred silence sounds like a great idea too.

I think we all agree that silence == respect. Respect for congregants and respect for God.
also prayer is optimized through silent reflection (I’m telling you, AFTER Mass is awesome).
I have never known anyone who has not been bothered by others. It’s an unfortunate result of our disparate human condition. We don’t know each other and so we can: 1 *Actually *be rude to each other mostly out of ignorance or sometimes (rarely) a sense of false entitlement OR 2. *wrongly *perceive rudeness in others where there is only good will and striving for best.

The worst result of the above is that our discernment is nil so that when actual evil or wrongminded people assault our congregations, we tend to sit back on our laurels and “ignore them” as they insidiously corrode the peace in our cores.

I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the original poster. He may have personal issues, but there may also be something there in the offending parties that REALLY needs to be fixed. More likely, it is indicative of a LARGER problem(s) that no-one wants to tackle: a lack of catechesis AND a lack of community within the parish.

That is why we must always talk to our pastors.

Do that and come back with specifics. Then we can be more helpful for each other, yes?

 

[InspiritCarol]

…Sometimes we have to ask for the strength to do this. I used to think that serenity prayer was stupid, but it asks for the ablity to accept “hardships as a pathway to peace.”

-Tim-

lol
God grant me the ability to not roll my eyes or make an little choking noise when someone brings up “the serenity prayer”.

Just kidding. Actually, your more full version may be worth exploring…

 

[Lacour]

We struggle mightily with our two year old as well. She is our 5th child, and I was pretty smug about how well our other children behaved in Mass. Then she came along. I suddenly realized, it wasn’t our outstanding parenting skills which made controlling our others much easier during Mass. It was their temperments/abilities. We have tried the exact same things with her as her older siblings, and she is just a whirlwind of constant motion.

LOL. I know that smug feeling. We’ve only been blessed with 2 so far (praying for 3 to come along soon ), but I can still relate. We jokingly call our 4 year old daughter “bait” and our son “switch”. She is just so easy and mild mannered. He’s definitely more spirited. I just know that one day all that energy is going to do a lot of good in the world!