Full Text of Obama's Speech

[rlg94086]

And how do these innocent babies come to be? What troubles me more is the stark silence of American Catholics and their priests over cohabitation and the “freedom” of sex in society. The only time I have heard cohabitation addressed was during my Catechism…but never in a homily. Honestly, it happens so much that it seems like most of us turn a blind eye to it.

IMHO I believe that abortion is a consequence of an even greater sin: disobedience. Especially when it comes to sex. Let us not be so quick to judge. We are not without sin. Think about it.

Seriously? Disobedience (e.g. cohabitation) is worse than the murder of innocents? I hope you will continue to grow in your understanding of Church teaching. I am sorry that you haven’t heard more homilies about cohabitation, divorce, etc. Your anecdotal experience is not indicative of the whole Church - there are some priests that are stronger in their teaching than others. IMHO things have gotten better over the last decade or so, but it does still depend on where you live, your Bishop, etc.

 

[lemonbeam]

**Obama Clock

obamaclock.org/**

 

[LoveJesus]

LoveJesus: The Catholic Church is one of the few institutions I know of that is speaking out on every problem you mentioned: divorce, cohabitation, premarital sex, ESCR, extramarital sex, adultery, fornication.

You’re right. Of course the Catholic Church speaks out on these problems. But I’m referring to the Catholic Church in America. There is a difference in the way the Church in America teaches (or doesn’t teach) its principles to the laity. Most priests here (of course, there are some good ones) are afraid to tell it like it is for fear of “scaring” people away. And it’s not working anyway. People who just go to Mass out of habit…or force themselves to just sit there and endure that hour will look for the most frivolous excuse not to go to Mass.

Church teaching is clear on these issues, and I’ve seen them addressed quite often in this forum. Yes, it is true. If everyone would follow Catholic teachings on these issues, there would be no abortion.

None of that means that we must not speak out on one million deaths by abortion every single year. None of that means that we must not oppose the pro-abortion programs of a pro-abortion president.

Priests are supposed to use the homily to explain the day’s readings, especially the Gospel. The homily may be used to address moral issues, but the focus should usually be on the gospel readings.

Is there any doubt where the Catholic Church stands on those issues? Is there any doubt where the Church stands on abortion? There surely should not be any doubt at Notre Dame University. And yet the university took this opportunity to praise a pro-abortion president.

You have put words in my mouth. I have never said that we shouldn’t speak out over abortion. Of course we should, but I think we should speak out even more about the underlying factors that lead to abortion.

Seriously? Disobedience (e.g. cohabitation) is worse than the murder of innocents? I hope you will continue to grow in your understanding of Church teaching. I am sorry that you haven’t heard more homilies about cohabitation, divorce, etc. Your anecdotal experience is not indicative of the whole Church - there are some priests that are stronger in their teaching than others. IMHO things have gotten better over the last decade or so, but it does still depend on where you live, your Bishop, etc.

I hope that you will continue to grow in your understanding of Church teaching. It is a long path for all of us. I said in my post (and by your reply I think that you’ve misunderstood me) that abortion is a result of disobedience. The sin of abortion is committed when one wants to hide their disobedience to the sexual teachings of God.

When the general Catholic population in America can’t even bring themselves to attend Mass every week (and when they do, they run out right after Communion or during the recessional hymn), or avoid Confession but still take Communion, I see a problem with the with the Church’s approach to educating their laity. How many times has anyone here heard the priest say before Communion that only those who are baptized, in full communion with the Church, and in a state of grace through Confession are allowed to receive the Body and Blood of Christ?

I honestly don’t think ND was praising Obama for his stance on abortion. I think it was for the fact that he is the first African-American President of the US.

Of course I think abortion should be illegal, but it’s not going to stop abortions for good in a society that views children as commodities instead of gifts from God.

 

[MarcoPolo]

How many of you honestly lose sleep every night because of the babies that are aborted every day? I don’t.

I expected (perhaps mistakenly) to see the love of God shine through the posts of this forum but I am honestly not seeing it.

It grieves us that babies are being murdered but you’re not losing any sleep over it—and then you say the grievers have no love?

I must say, the passion with which many of our faithful Catholics here speak out, pray, and defend God’s gift of life express nothing less than God’s love flowing forth.

 

[Michael_C]

And I quote:

"We must decide how to save God’s creation from a changing climate that threatens to destroy it.

Climate change??! I thought the threat was Global wariming?

In short, we must find a way to live together as one human family. "

If you’re lucky enough to be born.

 

[rlg94086]

You have put words in my mouth. I have never said that we shouldn’t speak out over abortion. Of course we should, but I think we should speak out even more about the underlying factors that lead to abortion.

Disobedience is discussed everyday on CAF, so I hope you will enjoy being a part of the fora.

LoveJesus:

I hope that you will continue to grow in your understanding of Church teaching. It is a long path for all of us. I said in my post (and by your reply I think that you’ve misunderstood me) that abortion is a result of disobedience. The sin of abortion is committed when one wants to hide their disobedience to the sexual teachings of God.

You also said that disobedience is the greater sin. Since disobedience is something every Catholic (including you and I) is guilty of at some time or another, your comment was very illogical and dismissive of the fact that abortion is a great evil.

I don’t know how you voted in this last election, but many, many Catholics voted for Obama. To me, that is the equivalent of voting pro-slavery in the mid-1800s…although, abortion is even worse than slavery.

LoveJesus:

When the general Catholic population in America can’t even bring themselves to attend Mass every week (and when they do, they run out right after Communion or during the recessional hymn), or avoid Confession but still take Communion, I see a problem with the with the Church’s approach to educating their laity. How many times has anyone here heard the priest say before Communion that only those who are baptized, in full communion with the Church, and in a state of grace through Confession are allowed to receive the Body and Blood of Christ?

I honestly don’t think ND was praising Obama for his stance on abortion. I think it was for the fact that he is the first African-American President of the US.

Of course I think abortion should be illegal, but it’s not going to stop abortions for good in a society that views children as commodities instead of gifts from God.

We agree that society needs a lot of work. We should be doing that at the same time and many of us are. Do you believe that electing pro-abortion politicians is okay because the real change needed is in attitude/obedience? If so, then you are not listening to the Church…and therefore, you are being disobedient.

 

[stuartsfeather]

I was having very mixed reactions as I read the speech. In the end I realized that this is a typical of his speeches. He tries to take the middle line and not take a side. However, when it comes to actions he takes the side that is contrary to life. As I did during the campaign, I will continue giving little to no weight to his speeches as they never match his actions.

The one interesting thing that I found in the speech is how he became a Christian, albeit liberal Christian. He came to Christ the way so many other people come to Christ. Hopefully, this part of the speech will not be lost as there are too many people that believe he is a Muslim trying to pass himself off as a Christian.

I am pasting from Obama’s speech.

“And something else happened during the time I spent in those neighborhoods. Perhaps because the church folks I worked with were so welcoming and understanding; perhaps because they invited me to their services and sang with me from their hymnals; perhaps because I witnessed all of the good works their faith inspired them to perform, I found myself drawn - not just to work with the church, but to be in the church. It was through this service that I was brought to Christ.”

Now show me where he says that he asked Jesus into his heart and accepted him as his saviour thereby giving you reason to state that he proclaims christianity as his faith? He says he “was brought to Christ”. Since we are assuming here and speculating on what he really means because he will not make definitive statements, I assume the church he is talking about is that of the infamous Jerimiah Wright, but again I do not know but am just left to assume. Does he say that he was baptised in the Christian faith? Obama never says anyting that can be nailed down to certainty, especially concerning his faith or lack thereof. Maybe I have missed it but a few months back there was a little talk in the media that Obama had not decided on the church that he and his family would attend it was either the 2nd Baptist or some one or other, but I do not recall anything ever be reported since then about his affiliation with a christian church, does anyone else have knowledge of that?

He does say that he was a witness to “all the good works” done by whatever church group he is talking about. Good works are defined by what the witness sees as good works and it is quite obvious that Obama would see abortion as a good work and the building of abortion clinics as good works. He says that “through this service” “not just to work with the church, but to be in the church. It was through this service that I was brought to Christ”

Well I submit that he and all of his comrades were indeed brought to Christ through their actions, MY QUESTION is what did they do when they were brought to Christ? Did he submit to the authority of Christ and accept him as saviour thereby being baptised and forsake all EVIL (ABORTTION) or did they ignore Christ and continue doing the work of the evil one? Hummm! what was that he said about observing the works of people? I wonder if one’s faith can be determined by their works?

Stuartsfeather

 

[LoveJesus]

(((( Originally Posted by LoveJesus View Post
How many of you honestly lose sleep every night because of the babies that are aborted every day? I don’t.

I expected (perhaps mistakenly) to see the love of God shine through the posts of this forum but I am honestly not seeing it. ))))

It grieves us that babies are being murdered but you’re not losing any sleep over it—and then you say the grievers have no love?

I must say, the passion with which many of our faithful Catholics here speak out, pray, and defend God’s gift of life express nothing less than God’s love flowing forth.

Thank you for taking my first quote out of context to try and paint me as someone who likes the fact that babies are being killed. Please read what I wrote after it.

There’s passion, and then there’s fanaticism. I feel like some people are using this forum as an outlet to express their anger at the going ons of the world and that’s just fine, but what is it doing for those (on earth and not) who are suffering right now? Or is this a place for people to brag that they’re better Christians than others?

We agree that society needs a lot of work. We should be doing that at the same time and many of us are. Do you believe that electing pro-abortion politicians is okay because the real change needed is in attitude/obedience? If so, then you are not listening to the Church…and therefore, you are being disobedient.

Did that make you feel good to tell me that I am disobedient? Did you feel proud? Did you feel that you got good points with God by doing that?

I don’t think that electing pro-abortion politicians changes anything. Not in this country. Sure, there will be more freedoms to abort but I can tell you from personal experience that abortion laws had nothing to do with my conversion from pro-choice to pro-life. I witnessed real Catholics who walked the walk and talked the talk and didn’t look down at me because I wasn’t raised in the Christian faith. They didn’t brag about how many times they went to Mass (or Latin Mass) or whether they received Communion by hand or tongue or veiled their hair or not. They also did not bring politics into Church, but instead encouraged me to actively help others that I knew to live the Christian way.

I hope that one day abortion will be illegal, but I pray even more that it will be because there is no more demand for it.

I am not God. I don’t know Obama’s heart. Only he and God knows. I don’t know your heart either and you don’t know mine. I believe that abortion is a sin - an evil sin that is committed to hide disobedience. They are linked. You can’t get rid of one without the other.

I pray for America’s Catholic Church. But I also know that God will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. The healing of the Church begins with us.

 

[Snerticus]

I was having very mixed reactions as I read the speech. In the end I realized that this is a typical of his speeches. He tries to take the middle line and not take a side. However, when it comes to actions he takes the side that is contrary to life. As I did during the campaign, I will continue giving little to no weight to his speeches as they never match his actions.

“You will know them by their fruits”. Not, by the way, by their words, but “by thier fruits”. You are correct in judging his actions as bad fruits. Words decieve, but actions never lie.

That last sentence sounds like a quote from somewhere…

 

[JimG]

Introducing abortion and stem cell research into the speech was not appropriate for a commencement. It was a political speech. It was a campaign to sway his audience.

When I heard the speech (as well as the introduction from Fr. Jenkins), it became apparent to me that this was precisely his plan.

It wasn’t just some commencement address over which a controversy had developed. It was part of Obama’s effort to co-opt Catholic education for himself, stripping Catholic loyalties away from the Church in favor of himself.

 

[LoveJesus]

If he hadn’t mentioned abortion and ESCR during his speech, what would people think? That he’s too scared to address the issues? He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. If these issues are so important to the Catholics at ND I don’t see a problem with him mentioning it. Weren’t people speaking out about these issues just weeks before the Commencement? I don’t think he swayed his audience with his speech. I would hope that they are intelligent enough to hear a different side of an argument without jumping to conclusions.

From his speech:
*Understand - I do not suggest that the debate surrounding abortion can or should go away. No matter how much we may want to fudge it - indeed, while we know that the views of most Americans on the subject are complex and even contradictory - the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable. Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature.

Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words. *
…

*The soldier and the lawyer may both love this country with equal passion, and yet reach very different conclusions on the specific steps needed to protect us from harm. The gay activist and the evangelical pastor may both deplore the ravages of HIV/AIDS, but find themselves unable to bridge the cultural divide that might unite their efforts. Those who speak out against stem cell research may be rooted in admirable conviction about the sacredness of life, but so are the parents of a child with juvenile diabetes who are convinced that their son’s or daughter’s hardships can be relieved.

The question, then, is how do we work through these conflicts? Is it possible for us to join hands in common effort? As citizens of a vibrant and varied democracy, how do we engage in vigorous debate? How does each of us remain firm in our principles, and fight for what we consider right, without demonizing those with just as strongly held convictions on the other side?*

How are we supposed to encourage others to become pro-life if we can’t even try to understand the “other side’s” reasons for their convictions?

 

[cathgal]

How many of you honestly lose sleep every night because of the babies that are aborted every day? I don’t. I have been lurking in this forum for a couple of months and it seems as though some people only remember them when they want to show how “Christian” they are. I believe that abortion is physically and spiritually damaging for both mother and child, but I also know that God loves His creations so much…and while I may never know what happens to the souls of those babies, I do know that God knows them, and that is enough for me.

I expected (perhaps mistakenly) to see the love of God shine through the posts of this forum but I am honestly not seeing it. I sense a general vibe on this forum that President Obama is solely responsible for the numbers of aborted babies in America and will be responsible for future abortions. Please, do not give him too much credit. There are women who have and at this moment may be contemplating killing their child for numerous reasons. Who is paying attention to them? Why have they even been able to get to this point in the first place? These are our sisters and brothers (they’re involved too) in Christ making these decisions. Just because abortion is legal doesn’t make it the right thing to do. People do have a CHOICE, and I feel that the Church in America has not done a good job in educating their laity (and generally the laity have certainly not done a good job educating each other) on the core principles of the Ten Commandments (especially the first three) so that they may want to choose the RIGHT choice.

I watched Obama’s speech this morning and the introduction before it. I finally understood why he was invited to speak in the first place. I think it meant a lot to Father Hesburgh with his efforts during the Civil Rights movement. I really feel that that was the main reason why he was invited.

I am a very recent convert to the Catholic Church. However, I have been attending Mass for the past 18 months, and this morning was the very FIRST time I heard a homily addressing the Ten Commandments. That fact speaks of the ever growing “watering-down” of the Church in America. This homily I heard is now one of my favourite homilies. The priest stressed the importance of LOVE in the commandments.

Who has really listened to the Second Reading from this morning’s liturgy?

Beloved, let us love one another,
because love is of God;
everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
In this way the love of God was revealed to us:
God sent his only Son into the world
so that we might have life through him.
In this is love:
not that we have loved God, but that he loved us
and sent his Son as expiation for our sins.

If we really love God, the Commandments should be so easy to follow. We would not be able to just pick and choose which ones to follow or which ones are more important. We need to help each other learn to love God. And that will not happen by us as Christians pushing each other away and deeming others not worthy to even try to love God because of politics. Because that’s all this is.

What is your point here??

Are you implying that Catholics don’t care about anything in this world except the scandal of ND?

Hello! This post is about Obama’s speech. If you have anything to say about it, then say it. If you don’t, then don’t digress.

The forum has all sort of topics and are related to everything Catholic, not just ND scandal. If you want to discuss topics that are not related to this post, then create one.

As for me, all I see is just another Obama’s speech of lies and hypocrisy. Nothing new. It’s what I expected from this president.

 

[cathgal]

If he hadn’t mentioned abortion and ESCR during his speech, what would people think? That he’s too scared to address the issues? He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. If these issues are so important to the Catholics at ND I don’t see a problem with him mentioning it. Weren’t people speaking out about these issues just weeks before the Commencement? I don’t think he swayed his audience with his speech. I would hope that they are intelligent enough to hear a different side of an argument without jumping to conclusions.

From his speech:
Understand - I do not suggest that the debate surrounding abortion can or should go away. No matter how much we may want to fudge it - indeed, while we know that the views of most Americans on the subject are complex and even contradictory - the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable. Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature.

*Open hearts. Open minds. Fair-minded words. *
…

The soldier and the lawyer may both love this country with equal passion, and yet reach very different conclusions on the specific steps needed to protect us from harm. The gay activist and the evangelical pastor may both deplore the ravages of HIV/AIDS, but find themselves unable to bridge the cultural divide that might unite their efforts. Those who speak out against stem cell research may be rooted in admirable conviction about the sacredness of life, but so are the parents of a child with juvenile diabetes who are convinced that their son’s or daughter’s hardships can be relieved.

The question, then, is how do we work through these conflicts? Is it possible for us to join hands in common effort? As citizens of a vibrant and varied democracy, how do we engage in vigorous debate? How does each of us remain firm in our principles, and fight for what we consider right, without demonizing those with just as strongly held convictions on the other side?

How are we supposed to encourage others to become pro-life if we can’t even try to understand the “other side’s” reasons for their convictions?

Oh but we do. Do you??

Don’t underestimate pro-life people of their understanding of the other side’s conviction.

Even you fall for the pretty speech?

 

[LoveJesus]

Thank you for your kind, fair-minded words, sister cathgal.

I mentioned in one of my previous posts that I myself used to think on the “other side.”

Tell me what you think are the reasons for the “other side’s” convictions?

 

[Snerticus]

Oh but we do. Do you??

Don’t underestimate pro-life people of their understanding of the other side’s conviction.

Very well said. And true. I understand competely the other side’s views. I can even picture myself in their situation and sympathise. But that does not mean they are right. And that does not mean we have to tolerate murdering innocent people or accept their views that such is morally acceptable. Demonizing? Well, if it comes from Satan, what else would you call it? Mercy? And yet, some do. And you want us to be tolerant of that?

Mercy for the person who just had an abortion and is trying to deal with it is one thing. We should be merciful and forgiving of what they did and help them get through it. What’s done is done and all we can do is show them our love, as well as pray for them and ask God to forgive as we forgive. Tolerating the person who pushes their agenda by falsely implying that a woman’s right is to kill their baby is quite a different thing and as such should be treated differently.

Letting them believe that we give in to their ideology and that everyone has a right to believe what they want is not merciful, it’s damning. I want no part in helping someone damn their own soul. At least not a willing part…

 

[maggiemay2u]

What is your point here??

Are you implying that Catholics don’t care about anything in this world except the scandal of ND?

Hello! This post is about Obama’s speech. If you have anything to say about it, then say it. If you don’t, then don’t digress.

The forum has all sort of topics and are related to everything Catholic, not just ND scandal. If you want to discuss topics that are not related to this post, then create one.

As for me, all I see is just another Obama’s speech of lies and hypocrisy. Nothing new. It’s what I expected from this president.

So true, Cath. Beware the baiters who seek to obfuscate the message.

I’ve said it before. The left has no problem demanding “date certain” for things they consider evil. The problem is they don’t consider a baby dying cold, alone, and unloved in a bucket, as evil. When the left begins looking for “common ground” that’s Alinsky-speak for get 'em off our agenda by attacking their compassion. As a recovering lefty, I remember the tactic well. What is frustrating the left today is so many are ignoring the tactics and keeping their eye on the prize of life.

 

[LoveJesus]

So true, Cath. Beware the baiters who seek to obfuscate the message.

I’ve said it before. The left has no problem demanding “date certain” for things they consider evil. The problem is they don’t consider a baby dying cold, alone, and unloved in a bucket, as evil. When the left begins looking for “common ground” that’s Alinsky-speak for get 'em off our agenda by attacking their compassion. As a recovering lefty, I remember the tactic well. What is frustrating the left today is so many are ignoring the tactics and keeping their eye on the prize of life.

The problem is that they don’t even consider that a baby dying cold, alone, and unloved (except by Jesus) in a bucket** is a freaking BABY**!

Thank you maggiemay for labeling me as a baiter. If you guys feel that I am baiting you then you are mistaken. You’re the ones who making yourselves bait by getting so high-strung over my views. I am a new poster to this forum though I have been lurking here for the past 4 months. One of the reason I was hesitant to post here was because of the holier-than-thou attitudes I see too often on this forum. But that’s okay. God loves me and He loves you too. He loves those aborted babies as much as He loves Obama (even though some here seem to not think he deserves it). God loves those people that many others find to be unlovable.

Catholic News Service article about Obama in ND
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0902273.htm

 

[maggiemay2u]

Very well said. And true. I understand competely the other side’s views. I can even picture myself in their situation and sympathise. But that does not mean they are right. And that does not mean we have to tolerate murdering innocent people or accept their views that such is morally acceptable. Demonizing? Well, if it comes from Satan, what else would you call it? Mercy? And yet, some do. And you want us to be tolerant of that?

Mercy for the person who just had an abortion and is trying to deal with it is one thing. We should be merciful and forgiving of what they did and help them get through it. What’s done is done and all we can do is show them our love, as well as pray for them and ask God to forgive as we forgive. Tolerating the person who pushes their agenda by falsely implying that a woman’s right is to kill their baby is quite a different thing and as such should be treated differently.

Letting them believe that we give in to their ideology and that everyone has a right to believe what they want is not merciful, it’s damning. I want no part in helping someone damn their own soul. At least not a willing part…

Nicely said. My rampant distrust of and my former activism with the left has left me jaded when it comes to their motives. Most liberal voters are just folks who haven’t looked beneath or beyond. My cousins who voted for Obama couldn’t see beyond the personal gain they thought was coming. They have only recently seen what may may be the other foot dropping. When Chrysler bond holders are screwed over in favor of the union, the fact of the matter is all those pension funds that invested in Chrysler, are likewise screwed over. They are starting to hear the rumblings of a bean counter in DC making the decision over whether my cousin with COPD is worthy of a transplant, or if the multiply handicapped thalidomide baby’s treatment would be seen as not cost effective, considering the potential quality of life issues.

Cloning, euthanasia, abortion—all were seen as unthinkable in the not too distant past, yet here they are today. Folks need to understand that it isn’t just unborn life that is not sacred to the true believers of the leftist leaders–everything, and everyone is on the table.

Sorry folks, ain’t no room for common ground in my puny, locked in, brain…

 

[Snerticus]

The problem is that they don’t even consider that a baby dying cold, alone, and unloved (except by Jesus) in a bucket** is a freaking BABY**!

Thank you maggiemay for labeling me as a baiter. If you guys feel that I am baiting you then you are mistaken. You’re the ones who making yourselves bait by getting so high-strung over my views. I am a new poster to this forum though I have been lurking here for the past 4 months. One of the reason I was hesitant to post here was because of the holier-than-thou attitudes I see too often on this forum. But that’s okay. God loves me and He loves you too. He loves those aborted babies as much as He loves Obama (even though some here seem to not think he deserves it). God loves those people that many others find to be unlovable.

Don’t worry LoveJesus, I go into forums with a totally different view than the majority and get the same treatment. We don’t hate you, we are just expressing ourselves in the only way we think that will get the other person thinking. And don’t forget, we are all passionate about certain things and sometimes our posts reflect that in ways we probably shouldn’t have expressed.

 

[maggiemay2u]

The problem is that they don’t even consider that a baby dying cold, alone, and unloved (except by Jesus) in a bucket** is a freaking BABY**!

Thank you maggiemay for labeling me as a baiter. If you guys feel that I am baiting you then you are mistaken. You’re the ones who making yourselves bait by getting so high-strung over my views. I am a new poster to this forum though I have been lurking here for the past 4 months. One of the reason I was hesitant to post here was because of the holier-than-thou attitudes I see too often on this forum. But that’s okay. God loves me and He loves you too. He loves those aborted babies as much as He loves Obama (even though some here seem to not think he deserves it). God loves those people that many others find to be unlovable.

Catholic News Service article about Obama in ND
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0902273.htm

Sorry if you took my caution personally. It was meant as a general statement in response to Cathgal’s thoughtful remarks. Please note my caution comes with experience of working with the left, until my conversion to fact over one of the left’s favorite weapons, feeling. I have never implied being holier than anyone. I am, among all here, a most flawed individual. But even a broken clock is right twice a day, and when it comes to the hardcore left, I’m right.

I pray for the conversion of heart and mind to life for Pres Obama and his minions every day. I prayed loudly as I listened to his words yesterday. There was no dialogue. It was the opportunity to divide thoughtless Catholics further.

As for baiters who would attempt to soften the message of the most hardcore left president of the US, my caution remains the same. His impassioned plea to the IL State Senate to allow born alive aborted babies to die in buckets, thereby extending the rights of the mother in RvW, past the point of birth, was proof positive he knew these children were babies, he knew they were alive, and he knew he wanted the circumstances of their deaths to be codified in law.