Fundamentalism and the Search for God

[Servant19]

This is better so that everyone can read, where certain ideas are coming from:
Thus Thornton stressed the Word and its transforming power, a theme typical in his writings. And how did Jesus acquire access to the Word? Was it a result of developing his own potential? No, Thornton replied,

it was the wonder-working power of the Holy Spirit, which dwelt within Him and spoke through Him. It was the invincible might of divine Love, which poured itself forth for man through Him. It was the triumphant force of the example of patient suffering and sacrifice in the path of God for the sake of humanity. Of himself, he could do nothing, and claimed to do nothing; but the F A T H E R, who dwelt in Him, worked and spoke through Him that which all the hosts of earth and heaven could not accomplish otherwise.[14]

This, Thornton said, was what Jesus meant when he said “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58)–that his reality was more than his personality or body, but the indwelling Spirit. This Spirit had returned in Bahá’u’lláh.
But, Thornton added, “the second coming' must bear evident marks of similitude to the first, in manner, character, instruction and in its Spirit, but it must be greater in results, wider in extension and different in effect."[15] He then gave examples. **Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword" (Matt. 10:34), but Bahá'u'lláh said that "the Most Great Peace must come,’ and He established the laws and provisions for that time of peace.”[16]** The Second Coming will reiterate the truths of the first but would elaborate on them and break the seals on the meanings of the books of the prophets. Instead of reaching just the Mediterranean region, as the revelation of Christ did in the first few centuries, the new revelation immediately reached the whole world:

  Already, were you going to Persia, Egypt, Russia, India, China, Japan, France, England, Italy, Australia, or the islands of the Sea, to Mohammedans, Buddhists, Brahmans, Zoroastrians, Confucians, Jews or Christians, I could give you introductions, or even one Word [Alláh-u-Abhá], which would cause you to be greeted with the utmost warmth, kindness and service, by those who, a little while ago, were of such varying faiths. We, here in Chicago, are constantly receiving the most beautiful, spiritual, sincere and loving letters from these scattered peoples, and they are written by men (and women) who are evidently not lacking in either ethical culture or spiritual knowledge. A net-work of love, friendship and loyalty to the One Cause and the One God and to His Holy Manifestations, past and present, a net of spiritual brotherhood and faith, tied with binding knots of sincerity, without regard to nationality, country or previous faith, is being woven around the world. It is the harbinger of that "Most Great Peace."[17]

The international spread of the Bahá’í Faith, so much greater today, was already impressive in the early years of the twentieth century. Even today, most Christians do not experience Christianity as an international religion as strongly as early twentieth-century Bahá’ís experienced the international dimension of the Bahá’í Faith. The Bahá’ís often saw the international spread of their Faith as a proof of its truth.

bahai-library.com/books/t.chase/ch.chapt15.html

Really? This is self absorbed and rejects Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.

MJ

What a gem of a post, thankyou Martin.

I have never read anything from Thornton Chase. He really wrote here, what is the epitome of what is the will of the Father in this Age, this Dispensation.

Thankyou

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[MartinJordan]

What a gem of a post, thankyou Martin.

I have never read anything from Thornton Chase. He really wrote here, what is the epitome of what is the will of the Father in this Age, this Dispensation.

Thankyou

.

Looks like you missed the mock on Jesus.
MJ

 

[Servant19]

Looks like you missed the mock on Jesus.
MJ

Please copy and paste the sentence.

I would hate to be mocking Jesus.

Thankyou

.

 

[PJM]

Religion in its current form is being rejected by humanity. Only the message of Baha’u’llah and His Teachings are being welcomed by humanity.

There are tons of links showing the decline of Christianity and empty churches being sold. but I don’t know which are ok to post here.

*“The whole of mankind is groaning, is dying to be led to unity, and to terminate its age-long martyrdom. And yet it stubbornly refuses to embrace the light and acknowledge the sovereign authority of the one Power that can extricate it from its entanglements, and avert the woeful calamity that threatens to engulf it. …” - Baha’u’llah *

(World a Order of Baha’u’llah )

That friend is your personal view, nothing more

 

[MartinJordan]

Please copy and paste the sentence.

I would hate to be mocking Jesus.

Thankyou

.

You need to do your own homework. I’ve already given you everything you need to figure it out. It is not just one sentence there are several. And very damaging. Especially the shouting.

If you wish to, how about answering the question last asked to Tony.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

What a gem of a post, thankyou Martin.

I have never read anything from Thornton Chase. He really wrote here, what is the epitome of what is the will of the Father in this Age, this Dispensation.

Thankyou

.

Btw you say you’ve never read anything by Thornton Chase. Then why the reaction the first time I mentioned his name in the other thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754008&postcount=1087

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754348&postcount=1104

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754352&postcount=1106

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Btw you say you’ve never read anything by Thornton Chase. Then why the reaction the first time I mentioned his name in the other thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754008&postcount=1087

This first link refers to Thornton’s deeds, which I am aware of, not his words.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754348&postcount=1104

This second post is in reference to you calling the Baha’i Faith the Church of Thornton Chase. The Baha’i Faith has never been termed such a thing and never will be.

You were demeaning to the sanctity of the Baha’i religion.

Nothing there about me reading anything from Thornton Chase.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13754352&postcount=1106

MJ

As I say, I have never READ anything from Thornton Chase…

.

 

[Servant19]

That friend is your personal view, nothing more

Hi Patrick. Even the Pope is dying to be led to unity.

His latest actions prove as such…

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[Servant19]

You need to do your own homework. I’ve already given you everything you need to figure it out. It is not just one sentence there are several. And very damaging. Especially the shouting.

Shouting???

Lol…are we reading the same English language??

Each to their own I suppose. That is between you and God.

I have done my research, thankyou, and the conclusions I have made are fully Biblical, not man-made.

If you wish to, how about answering the question last asked to Tony.

MJ

Sure thing…

Matthew 10:
37 “The one who loves his father or mother more than me isn’t worthy of me, and the one who loves a son or daughter more than me isn’t worthy of me. 38 The one who doesn’t take up his cross and follow me isn’t worthy of me. 39 The one who finds his life will lose it, and the one who loses his life because of me will find it.”
Rewards

40 “The one who receives you receives me, and the one who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41 The one who receives a prophet as[ac] a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and the one who receives a righteous person as[ad] a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. 42 I tell all of you[ae] with certainty, whoever gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is[af] a disciple will never lose his reward.”

We should love our Lord, the Manifestation of God for the age we live in, more than we love ourselves, our family, our children, yes.

What is the point you wish to make?

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[worldcitizen]

Fundamentalism is what has destroyed the foundation of Christianity which was always ‘love and unity of all humanity’.

These words of Abdul-Baha explain what Christianity is really all about, what a Christian should be and asks why Christians have gone against Christ’s Teachings of love. He gives a more accurate definition of what the antichrist is.

"“No less bitter is the conflict between sects and denominations. Christ was a divine Center of unity and love. Whenever discord prevails instead of unity, wherever hatred and antagonism take the place of love and spiritual fellowship, Antichrist reigns instead of Christ. Who is right in these controversies and hatreds between the sects? Did Christ command them to love or to hate each other? He loved even His enemies and prayed in the hour of His crucifixion for those who killed Him. Therefore, to be a Christian is not merely to bear the name of Christ and say, “I belong to a Christian government.” To be a real Christian is to be a servant in His Cause and Kingdom, to go forth under His banner of peace and love toward all mankind”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “The Promulgation of Universal Peace.”

 

[MartinJordan]

This first link refers to Thornton’s deeds, which I am aware of, not his words.

I was never referring to his deeds whatsover. You depend on wiki for information. I don’t. So don’t start assuming my intentions.

This second post is in reference to you calling the Baha’i Faith the Church of Thornton Chase. The Baha’i Faith has never been termed such a thing and never will be.

You were demeaning to the sanctity of the Baha’i religion.

I was not. All I did by saying that is correct the Misconceptions of Jesus. And again I refer to Thornton’s words mocking Jesus and his supporting the Bahai continued misconceptions.Jesus’ sanctity is more than everything to me so expect more from me if I find it demeaning Him.

Nothing there about me reading anything from Thornton Chase.

On second thought I’ll take your word for it.

As I say, I have never READ anything from Thornton Chase…

.

I expected much more from a Bahai. I suppose you are still learning about his words.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

There shouldn’t be any question as to what Baha’is believe about Christ.

“Our belief in Christ, as Bahá’ís, is so firm, so unshakeable and so exalted in nature that very few Christians are to be found now-a-days who love Him and reverence Him and have the faith in Him that we have. It is only from the dogmas and creeds of the churches that we dissociate ourselves; not from the spirit of Christianity.”

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of Vienna, June 24, 1947)

 

[MartinJordan]

Shouting???

Lol…are we reading the same English language??

It is shouting look at it again. Plus Thornton didn’t follow up Jesus’ words but went on his own subjective view.

Each to their own I suppose. That is between you and God.

Nope. It’s between me and the Church, of which Jesus the son of God eternally begotten of the Father built to follow Jesus commandments. Through Him, With Him and in Him.

I have done my research, thankyou, and the conclusions I have made are fully Biblical, not man-made.

The Bible put was put together by men, who allowed the Spirit to guide them and experiences of the nascent Church were put in writing. You depend on the Bible, shows how much you are missing the Church teachings. Let me remind you again. No Bible without the Eucharist. The Covenant in His Blood.

Sure thing…

Ok.

We should love our Lord, the Manifestation of God for the age we live in, more than we love ourselves, our family, our children, yes.

What is the point you wish to make?

.

No! That is not what it Jesus is saying at all. Read it again. Again, you’re falling in the trap of insulation. Not hearing and not understanding.

Where is Jesus saying the next dispensation? State his words right here and now that there is such a thing.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

If one study the Gospels you will not find things like extremism, fundamentalism or exclusiveism but oneness and love for all even enemies. But this has been lost and degenerated into a contest between religions. The message of Christ was always a spiritual message to the heart.

“If a Christian sets aside traditionary forms and blind imitation of ceremonials and investigates the reality of the gospels, he will discover that the foundation principles of the teachings of His Holiness Christ were mercy, love, fellowship, benevolence, altruism, the resplendence or radiance of divine bestowals, acquisition of the breaths of the Holy Spirit and oneness with God”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Foundations of World Unity.” Bahá’í

 

[MartinJordan]

If one study the Gospels you will not find things like extremism, fundamentalism or exclusiveism but oneness and love for all even enemies. But this has been lost and degenerated into a contest between religions. The message of Christ was always a spiritual message to the heart.

“**If a Christian sets aside traditionary forms and blind imitation of ceremonials and investigates the reality of the gospels, ** he will discover that the foundation principles of the teachings of His Holiness Christ were mercy, love, fellowship, benevolence, altruism, the resplendence or radiance of divine bestowals, acquisition of the breaths of the Holy Spirit and oneness with God”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “Foundations of World Unity.” Bahá’í

What does the bold part mean? It doesn’t sound respectful to me.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

What does the bold part mean? It doesn’t sound respectful to me.

MJ

Well it’s just a statement of fact that’s all . That we accept Jesus but not any of the creeds or sacraments or rituals of the churches. That’s our belief. For instance confession, holy communion, mass and penance etc we don’t consider as part of what Christ taught. That is our belief I thought you knew that.

That is how Baha’is can accept all the Prophets, Messengers by discarding the man made creeds of the various religions and just accepting the pure form as it was revealed. Thus we can accept all Faiths easily by not accepting what man has added to it.

This goes for all Faiths. Buddhism worships statues, we discard that, Hinduism also worships statues but all these ceremonies and practices were introduced by the followers.

Baha’is only accept the pure forms of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc and not the creeds or hadiths or commentaries or interpretations added by followers.

So it’s not only Christianity. We only accept each religion as it was given to humanity not how it has become over the centuries.

They were the words of Abdul-Baha. He was only stating what He believes is the foundation of Christianity.

 

[worldcitizen]

This is what Jesus really sacrificed Himself on the cross for. He didn’t want His religion to split but to be the one fold and one shepherd and embrace all humanity and unite all the peoples of the world. That is what Jesus hoped for.

With all religions we only accept the pure spiritual teachings not the ceremonies or rituals or interpretations or hadiths of Islam. It’s all these man made additions that have divided the religions. If we just accept the original Faith unity then becomes easy.

“Jesus Christ gave His life upon the cross for the unity of mankind. Those who believed in Him likewise sacrificed life, honor, possessions, family, everything, that this human world might be released from the hell of discord, enmity and strife. His foundation was the oneness of humanity”

Excerpt From: Bahá, Abdu’l. “The Promulgation of Universal Peace"

 

[Servant19]

I was never referring to his deeds whatsover. You depend on wiki for information. I don’t. So don’t start assuming my intentions.

Martin, what wiki information??? Please gather your thoughts and speak with clarity

The post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…postcount=1087

is in reference to Thornton’s deed. I do not need to read any of his words to know about his deeds.

You were surprised that I know so much about Thornton without reading his books or letters.

One does not need to read a book written by a person to know something about that persons life.
Do I need to read Einsteins Theory of Relativity to know that his hair was scraggy and he was born in Germany??

I was not. All I did by saying that is correct the Misconceptions of Jesus. And again I refer to Thornton’s words mocking Jesus and his supporting the Bahai continued misconceptions.Jesus’ sanctity is more than everything to me so expect more from me if I find it demeaning Him.

I was talking about being part of the Church of Baha’u’llah in that thread. You then responded with “You are from the Church of Thornton Chase. business man ” which was a very sarcastic comment demeaning me as a Baha’i and demeaning the Baha’i religion because you replaced ad substituted the Divine Baha’u’llah with the name of a very human Thornton Chase…

I expected much more from a Bahai. I suppose you are still learning about his words.

MJ

One thing you must strive to understand is that a Baha’i speaks from a Baha’i reference point. Baha’u’llah is the Father, what He says about Christ is more true than any Church or any Saint. If you close your eyes for one second and IMAGINE (just for one moment) that this is true, then what you read from Thornton is very much respectful towards Jesus.

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[Servant19]

It is shouting look at it again. Plus Thornton didn’t follow up Jesus’ words but went on his own subjective view.

I honestly can only see praise and reverence for Christ in the link you provided.
If you can copy and paste which part is disrespectful, then please do so and lets discuss, otherwise please move on…

Nope. It’s between me and the Church, of which Jesus the son of God eternally begotten of the Father built to follow Jesus commandments. Through Him, With Him and in Him.

Either way, ultimately its between you and God…

The Bible put was put together by men, who allowed the Spirit to guide them and experiences of the nascent Church were put in writing. You depend on the Bible, shows how much you are missing the Church teachings. Let me remind you again. No Bible without the Eucharist. The Covenant in His Blood.

Yes, the Books were put together by men, but the Words contained are from Jesus. It is the Word we are interested in, not the compilers of the Books.

No! That is not what it Jesus is saying at all. Read it again. Again, you’re falling in the trap of insulation. Not hearing and not understanding.

Where is Jesus saying the next dispensation? State his words right here and now that there is such a thing.

MJ

No Manifestation of God has ever said, nor will ever say, don’t follow me, follow the Manifestation of God that is to come. OR, don’t follow me, follow the Manifestation of God that came “before” me.

Moses never said follow Abraham. Moses never said follow Jesus.
Moses DID say “follow me”…

It is the same with Jesus. The moment He spoke a single Word, He was the Person that all must follow to get to God.

Is that an eternal commandment? Yes it is, because the Son is not the human Jesus, it is the Divine Christ, eternally begotten.

You seem to be struggling with the two-fold nature of Jesus and how one nature is eternal, and the other nature is non-eternal and human.

Would you like to discuss this again?

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Well it’s just a statement of fact that’s all . That we accept Jesus but not any of the creeds or sacraments or rituals of the churches.

Then better read Jesus words properly. Their not called rituals as if we’re from a some culture of death. We’re talking about life and love.

That’s our belief. For instance confession, holy communion, mass and penance etc we don’t consider as part of what Christ taught. That is our belief I thought you knew that.

I know this already. This is 19th century whims. So far removed from the Church that Jesus built.

That is how Baha’is can accept all the Prophets, Messengers by discarding the man made creeds of the various religions and just accepting the pure form as it was revealed. Thus we can accept all Faiths easily by not accepting what man has added to it.

I can accept all faiths too, because everyone deserves dignity to believe even if they’re not having the Full Truth of Christ’s work in Salvation for the human race. But once they start to believe in Jesus in some form (because God is calling them to Him) they will have to accept the fact that He came down from Heaven.
.

This goes for all Faiths. Buddhism worships statues, we discard that, Hinduism also worships statues but all these ceremonies and practices were introduced by the followers.

Baha’is only accept the pure forms of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc and not the creeds or hadiths or commentaries or interpretations added by followers.

So much for giving them some dignity.

So it’s not only Christianity. We only accept each religion as it was given to humanity not how it has become over the centuries.

Which is an oddity.

They were the words of Abdul-Baha. He was only stating what He believes is the foundation of Christianity.

That’s subjectivity right there. As Ive been stating many times.

MJ