Fundamentalism and the Search for God

[MartinJordan]

:extrahappy:

Martin, what wiki information??? Please gather your thoughts and speak with clarity

The post:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…postcount=1087

That link doesn’t work.

is in reference to Thornton’s deed. I do not need to read any of his words to know about his deeds.

You were surprised that I know so much about Thornton without reading his books or letters.

I’m surprised you don’t know much about him.

One does not need to read a book written by a person to know something about that persons life.
Do I need to read Einsteins Theory of Relativity to know that his hair was scraggy and he was born in Germany??

Can you clarify what you are saying here?

I was talking about being part of the Church of Baha’u’llah in that thread. You then responded with “You are from the Church of Thornton Chase. business man ” which was a very sarcastic comment demeaning me as a Baha’i and demeaning the Baha’i religion because you replaced ad substituted the Divine Baha’u’llah with the name of a very human Thornton Chase…

What is this meaning “very human”? He was fully carnal?

One thing you must strive to understand is that a Baha’i speaks from a Baha’i reference point. Baha’u’llah is the Father, what He says about Christ is more true than any Church or any Saint. If you close your eyes for one second and IMAGINE (just for one moment) that this is true, then what you read from Thornton is very much respectful towards Jesus.

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We don’t close our eyes. We practice, have a relationship with Christ (by having his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity), pray at all times and pass on to our children what they will pass on their children. Baptism, Holy Communion, Confirmation, so on and so forth.

I suppose you don’t understand the Joy we have in Christ finished work of Salvation, so that we don’t boast ourselves. We can carry our cross and bear one another’s burdens and work out our Salvation through Him, With Him and In Him.

Holy Holy Holy Lord, God of Power and Might. Heaven and Earth are full of your Glory. Amen. Alleluia. :extrahappy:

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

I honestly can only see praise and reverence for Christ in the link you provided.
If you can copy and paste which part is disrespectful, then please do so and lets discuss, otherwise please move on…

I did.

Either way, ultimately its between you and God…

No. Not between me and God. But me, God and how I treat my neighbor who is also a child of God.

If I disregard my neighbor and call out Lord Lord. Jesus will judge me as not feeding him, helping him and he will separate the me one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats (me) on his left if I fail in Glorifying Him with my life.

So, it is time to start Glorifying the Son (that includes me) otherwise I’ll be mocking him. Yes, I can also mock Jesus if I don’t confess Him Lord of my life. The Alpha and the Omega. The Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.

Yes, the Books were put together by men, but the Words contained are from Jesus. It is the Word we are interested in, not the compilers of the Books.

So gave you the book to your hand? And who gave the book to that one who gave it to you? And who gave it to the one, who gave it to the one, who gave it to you? Can you answer that question?

No Manifestation of God has ever said, nor will ever say, don’t follow me, follow the Manifestation of God that is to come. OR, don’t follow me, follow the Manifestation of God that came “before” me.

We should only want to Glorify the Son, who came down from Heaven.

Moses never said follow Abraham. Moses never said follow Jesus.
Moses DID say “follow me”…

What did Jesus say about Moses and Abraham?

Post it here.

It is the same with Jesus. The moment He spoke a single Word, He was the Person that all must follow to get to God.

So God is not Father then?

that an eternal commandment? Yes it is, because the Son is not the human Jesus, it is the Divine Christ, eternally begotten.

Huh? Where is this stated? I’m very interested in where you get your ideas.

You seem to be struggling with the two-fold nature of Jesus and how one nature is eternal, and the other nature is non-eternal and human.

Would you like to discuss this again?

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How can I be struggling when I’m so joyful that we just celebrated Easter? I know what Jesus did for me, and for you.

I will more than happy to discuss and even pray with you!

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Dear Martin,

Will you pray for me too? Your heart is close to the Lord and so I would love your prayers.

Regards

David

 

[MartinJordan]

Dear Martin,

Will you pray for me too? Your heart is close to the Lord and so I would love your prayers.

Regards

David

Sure. However there are many who have prayers stronger than mine, have special talents to they dedicate their entire lives in His Service. Also seek prayers from those in the Ministerial Priesthood.

I would ask you to remember that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World, focus on him, the Good Shepherd.

Nonetheless prayers assured in any way I can.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Sure. However there are many who have prayers stronger than mine, have special talents to they dedicate their entire lives in His Service. Also seek prayers from those in the Ministerial Priesthood.

I would ask you to remember that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World, focus on him, the Good Shepherd.

Nonetheless prayers assured in any way I can.

Peace be with you.

MJ

Yes thanks Martin. Really appreciated.

 

[Servant19]

:extrahappy:

That link doesn’t work.

I’m surprised you don’t know much about him.

Can you clarify what you are saying here?

What is this meaning “very human”? He was fully carnal?

We don’t close our eyes. We practice, have a relationship with Christ (by having his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity), pray at all times and pass on to our children what they will pass on their children. Baptism, Holy Communion, Confirmation, so on and so forth.

I suppose you don’t understand the Joy we have in Christ finished work of Salvation, so that we don’t boast ourselves. We can carry our cross and bear one another’s burdens and work out our Salvation through Him, With Him and In Him.

Holy Holy Holy Lord, God of Power and Might. Heaven and Earth are full of your Glory. Amen. Alleluia. :extrahappy:

MJ

Hi Martin,

It is very difficult to have dialogue when so much misunderstanding is taking place. I never asked you close your eyes. I asked you to imagine.

I don’t know very much about Thirnton Chase purely because he was another servant of Baha’u’llah. His services are respected, but at the end of the day he was human like you and I and every other Baha’i and Christian that ever lived. No one can ever rival Jesus or Baha’u’llah, end of story.

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[Servant19]

I did.

No. Not between me and God. But me, God and how I treat my neighbor who is also a child of God.

If I disregard my neighbor and call out Lord Lord. Jesus will judge me as not feeding him, helping him and he will separate the me one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats (me) on his left if I fail in Glorifying Him with my life.

So, it is time to start Glorifying the Son (that includes me) otherwise I’ll be mocking him. Yes, I can also mock Jesus if I don’t confess Him Lord of my life. The Alpha and the Omega. The Lamb of God who takes away the Sins of the World.

So gave you the book to your hand? And who gave the book to that one who gave it to you? And who gave it to the one, who gave it to the one, who gave it to you? Can you answer that question?

We should only want to Glorify the Son, who came down from Heaven.

What did Jesus say about Moses and Abraham?

Post it here.

So God is not Father then?

Huh? Where is this stated? I’m very interested in where you get your ideas.

How can I be struggling when I’m so joyful that we just celebrated Easter? I know what Jesus did for me, and for you.

I will more than happy to discuss and even pray with you!

MJ

Again dear Martin,

I wasn’t saying you struggle in life, I was saying that you are struggling to grasp a Baha’i concept.

I daily glorify the Son and the Father, with every breath, with every act of my life. I hope and pray that my puny attempts to see God in all things at every moment of my life, is acceptable before His Presence.

But no matter, I appreciate your prayers, and with all Catholics, I too, pray with you.

God bless you

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Hi Martin,

It is very difficult to have dialogue when so much misunderstanding is taking place. I never asked you close your eyes. I asked you to imagine.

I don’t know very much about Thirnton Chase purely because he was another servant of Baha’u’llah. His services are respected, but at the end of the day he was human like you and I and every other Baha’i and Christian that ever lived. No one can ever rival Jesus or Baha’u’llah, end of story.

.

I appreciate your conciliatory approach.

That said want to make it very clear I find it misguided to accept Jesus in one way and then make room for equivalence with another person. Only Jesus came from Heaven. Only he has seen the Father. But we also looking at him see the Father in him. Jesus, though equal to the Father was to be obedient when he was Sent.

Also Jesus said: 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

To be Contd

MJ

 

[Servant19]

I appreciate your conciliatory approach.

That said want to make it very clear I find it misguided to accept Jesus in one way and then make room for equivalence with another person. Only Jesus came from Heaven. Only he has seen the Father. But we also looking at him see the Father in him. Jesus, though equal to the Father was to be obedient when he was Sent.

Also Jesus said: 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

To be Contd

MJ

Thankyou Martin, I can literally see what you are asserting (are you shouting? just kidding!! )

If the conclusion from these passages is this:

That said want to make it very clear I find it misguided to accept Jesus in one way and then make room for equivalence with another person. Only Jesus came from Heaven. Only he has seen the Father.

…then I am sorry Martin, this simply is subjective speculation from the Christians. It simply is not true that “only Jesus came from Heaven”

The Bab states that “before I chose the womb of my mother, I discoursed with Muhammad about the future of Islam”…He existed in heaven and came from Heaven into the womb of the mother of His choosing.

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[MartinJordan]

Thankyou Martin, I can literally see what you are asserting (are you shouting? just kidding!! )

Those aren’t my words in the first place. Those are bolded my me and not caps. But Jesus words as he faced his opposers. Unlike Thornton who was trying to convince “capitalizing Father " that Jesus did nothing without his Father as if he’s a servant. On the contrary as Jesus said " No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Thornton did not follow up properly.

Jesus having the power of his Father he did not take that as an advantage. This was humility and not " Of himself, he could do nothing, and claimed to do nothing; but the F A T H E R, who dwelt in Him, worked and spoke through Him that which all the hosts of earth and heaven could not accomplish otherwise.".

Thornton forgot that :

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature** of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

If the conclusion from these passages is this:

…then I am sorry Martin, this simply is subjective speculation from the Christians. It simply is not true that “only Jesus came from Heaven”

Please don’t be sorry. Just follow Jesus. Nothing really to do with subjective speculation, which is an accusation without base.

John 3: 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Don’t say speculation. Thanks.

The Bab states that “before I chose the womb of my mother, I discoursed with Muhammad about the future of Islam”…He existed in heaven and came from Heaven into the womb of the mother of His choosing.

.

Clearly very odd and without support.

MJ**

 

[Servant19]

Those aren’t my words in the first place. Those are bolded my me and not caps. But Jesus words as he faced his opposers. Unlike Thornton who was trying to convince “capitalizing Father " that Jesus did nothing without his Father as if he’s a servant. On the contrary as Jesus said " No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Thornton did not follow up properly.

Can you clarify how Jesus was not a servant of the Father? Even in the verse you quoted above to prove that Jesus had His own authority, it ends with ***" This command I received from my Father." ***

Jesus having the power of his Father he did not take that as an advantage. This was humility and not " Of himself, he could do nothing, and claimed to do nothing; but the F A T H E R, who dwelt in Him, worked and spoke through Him that which all the hosts of earth and heaven could not accomplish otherwise.".

Thornton forgot that :

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature** of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!**

I see nothing in Thornton’s summary above that goes against Paul’s letter to the Phillipians…

Please don’t be sorry. Just follow Jesus. Nothing really to do with subjective speculation, which is an accusation without base.

I do follow Jesus. That you say I do not is “subjective speculation”
That you claim that others have not come down from heaven, as if you have omnipotent knowledge of all things, is again, “subjective speculation”

Please don’t pretend to us that you have Divine knowledge

John 3: 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

Don’t say speculation. Thanks.

I only use the words that are acceptable to our dear Catholic friends dear Martin. I thought speculation is an acceptable idea for Catholics to state about what thy believe to be speculation.

Clearly very odd and without support.

MJ

In other words, you are saying that this statement by the Bab is “speculation”??

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[MartinJordan]

Can you clarify how Jesus was not a servant of the Father? Even in the verse you quoted above to prove that Jesus had His own authority, it ends with ***" This command I received from my Father." ***

What did Jesus say when he continued speaking Servant? Strange why you ask this.

Post it here. This way you can do more effort in understanding as Jesus continued speaking. Focus more on Jesus discourse.

Then we will go deeper in the same spirit of dialogue to see the beauty of the Gospel (Good news!)

I see nothing in Thornton’s summary above that goes against Paul’s letter to the Phillipians…

Have you not read through and mediated on the entire Letter to the Phillipians?

If not we’ll go through it. As it has excellent follow up to the Gospels.:extrahappy:

I do follow Jesus. That you say I do not is “subjective speculation”
That you claim that others have not come down from heaven, as if you have omnipotent knowledge of all things, is again, “subjective speculation”

Please don’t pretend to us that you have Divine knowledge

Patience Servant. Don’t rush and assume that I’m claiming special knowledge. I’m only applying the Truth of the Gospels. That’s why there are called Gospels and Acts. One must practice the Faith as it has the answer to work out our Salvation.

So let’s go step by step and let Jesus continue his Holy Words.

I only use the words that are acceptable to our dear Catholic friends dear Martin. I thought speculation is an acceptable idea for Catholics to state about what thy believe to be speculation.

Not sure what you mean here. But let’s get back to Jesus Holy discourse.

In other words, you are saying that this statement by the Bab is “speculation”??

.

No. I’m trying to point out it has no relation to Jesus discourse and Acts of the Paul as he is following the Gospels given to him by those who were with Jesus and how he followed the Faith. Let’s get back to Jesus in John 10 and as I explained start Phillipians from the beginning. Step by step we’ll get there.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

What did Jesus say when he continued speaking Servant? Strange why you ask this.

Post it here. This way you can do more effort in understanding as Jesus continued speaking. Focus more on Jesus discourse.

Then we will go deeper in the same spirit of dialogue to see the beauty of the Gospel (Good news!)

Have you not read through and mediated on the entire Letter to the Phillipians?

If not we’ll go through it. As it has excellent follow up to the Gospels.:extrahappy:

Patience Servant. Don’t rush and assume that I’m claiming special knowledge. I’m only applying the Truth of the Gospels. That’s why there are called Gospels and Acts. One must practice the Faith as it has the answer to work out our Salvation.

So let’s go step by step and let Jesus continue his Holy Words.

Not sure what you mean here. But let’s get back to Jesus Holy discourse.

No. I’m trying to point out it has no relation to Jesus discourse and Acts of the Paul as he is following the Gospels given to him by those who were with Jesus and how he followed the Faith. Let’s get back to Jesus in John 10 and as I explained start Phillipians from the beginning. Step by step we’ll get there.

MJ

No problem Martin

Shall we start with John 10? Shall I post one verse at a time and we discuss?

.

 

[MartinJordan]

No problem Martin

Shall we start with John 10? Shall I post one verse at a time and we discuss?

.

Sure. But let’s start with a bit of background to John 10. It started from John 8 when Jesus called himself the Light of the World ;** I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John** 8:12

Then In John 9 Jesus healed a man born blind which took place on the Sabbath.

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees took offense and questioned the cured man.

Thus there is more to John 10 than just starting from there .

So shall we get John 8 underway so we can have a better look at Jesus testimony?

Because in John 10:30 Jesus testifies “I and the Father are one” John 10:30. And many believed

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

One more point we have to also keep in reverence how John 1 provides the initial motive to make all to see how he introduces Jesus:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.** 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.**

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness** to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. **8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9** The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.** 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

So you can see how Jesus himself makes his claims as Light of the World (John 8)

And in John 10 about him being the Good Shepherd. Which brings us back to :
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[worldcitizen]

Hi Martin. Hi Servant.

God bless you both. You are both blessed talking about spiritual and divine matters.

Best Regards

David

 

[Servant19]

Hi Martin. Hi Servant.

God bless you both. You are both blessed talking about spiritual and divine matters.

Best Regards

David

God bless YOU brother.

Again and again…



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[Servant19]

Sure. But let’s start with a bit of background to John 10. It started from John 8 when Jesus called himself the Light of the World ;** I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” John** 8:12

Then In John 9 Jesus healed a man born blind which took place on the Sabbath.

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees took offense and questioned the cured man.

Thus there is more to John 10 than just starting from there .

So shall we get John 8 underway so we can have a better look at Jesus testimony?

Because in John 10:30 Jesus testifies “I and the Father are one” John 10:30. And many believed

Peace be with you.

MJ

Thankyou Martin.

Is there anywhere that states that this “light” which is the Word, cannot be made flesh ever again for the history of Creation in another name?

Peace be with you too.

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Thankyou Martin.

Is there anywhere that states that this “light” which is the Word, cannot be made flesh ever again for the history of Creation in another name?

Peace be with you too.

.

Not sure what you are asking. What Jesus says in John 8 is that if we follow him , we will have the light of life so we become the Light of the World.

Like in Matthew 5 when Jesus said; You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Also 2 Corinthians 4 : 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”[a] made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

And also: **God speaks the light of Jesus into our hearts, and his light shines so powerfully through us that we are like stars in the universe that point the whole human race toward real life . ** Philippians 2:15-16

As well as :

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our joy complete.

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. :- 1 John 1: 1-7

So please clarify what you are looking for.

Peace be with you

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Not sure what you are asking. What Jesus says in John 8 is that if we follow him , we will have the light of life so we become the Light of the World.

Like in Matthew 5 when Jesus said; You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

MJ

What does it mean, Martin, that you become the “Light of the World”? What will I see in a person who is the “Light of the World”?

I know that in Matt 5 you mention that it talks about showing forth good deeds that can be shown before men to be like a “light”, but is it only the followers of Jesus that can show forth deeds such as this?

In the Baha’i Writings, the Truth of other Prophets as “lights” is recognized:

***Saints are men who have freed themselves from the world of matter and who have overcome sin. They live in the world but are not of it, their thoughts being continually in the world of the spirit. Their lives are spent in holiness, and their deeds show forth love, justice and godliness. They are illumined from on high; they are as bright and shining lamps in the dark places of the earth. These are the saints of God. The apostles, who were the disciples of Jesus Christ, were just as other men are; they, like their fellows, were attracted by the things of the world, and each thought only of his own advantage. They knew little of justice, nor were the Divine perfections found in their midst. But when they followed Christ and believed in Him, their ignorance gave place to understanding, cruelty was changed to justice, falsehood to truth, darkness into light. They had been worldly, they became spiritual and divine. They had been children of darkness, they became sons of God, they became saints! Strive therefore to follow in their steps, leaving all worldly things behind, and striving to attain to the Spiritual Kingdom.

Pray to God that He may strengthen you in divine virtue, so that you may be as angels in the world, and beacons of light to disclose the mysteries of the Kingdom to those with understanding hearts.

God sent His Prophets into the world to teach and enlighten man, to explain to him the mystery of the Power of the Holy Spirit, to enable him to reflect the light, and so in his turn, to be the source of guidance to others. The Heavenly Books, the Bible, the Qur’án, and the other Holy Writings have been given by God as guides into the paths of Divine virtue, love, justice and peace.

Therefore I say unto you that ye should strive to follow the counsels of these Blessed Books, and so order your lives that ye may, following the examples set before you, become yourselves the saints of the Most High! ***

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/PT/pt-18.html

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