future of the muslim religion

[melensdad]

Whoa! What about the Crusades? The Crusades saved Europe.

Oh no! A convenient truth rears its ugly head

Was it not true that Constantinople was overthrown by the Muslims of the Ottoman empire?

Also, was it not true that the earlier Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred “Holy Land” from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia?

 

[Unitas]

I kept trying to go back to the original subject, but i got attacked as soon as i started it… I really dont know why you guys are so jumpy. Are you guys so ashamed of your religion’s past?

Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion

Who brought up the Church’s “torture machines”?

Who brought up nuns performing abortions?

Oh yeah, that was you.

You derail your own thread then admonish people for being off topic…

We have no problem with our past. What we have a problem with is your false misrepresentation of our past. Just because you state something as fact, or have been told it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s true. Please provide evidence to support your claim or else your claim will be rejected.

Please prove the Church was responsible for 16 million native American deaths and 2 million deaths during the crusades. If you cannot then we have no choice but to assume you’re full of it.

What you’re doing in this discussion is framing a proposition around a statement we’re supposed to take on your biased say-so. That’s called poisoning the well.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Oh no! A convenient truth rears its ugly head

Was it not true that Constantinople was overthrown by the Muslims of the Ottoman empire?

Also, was it not true that the earlier Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred “Holy Land” from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia?

Please, we do not work in facts and truths when it comes to the subject of the crusades.

Please maintain some political correctness and just apologize to all Muslims for…mmmm…uhhh…???..well…everything!

 

[KathleenElsie]

I wonder if 400 years from now, Muslims will be seen as we see the catholic church as it was 400 years ago. Willing to kill everyone who does not follow their religion.

I noticed you started two threads with the same “I wonder”. The people killing others in the name of their religion at this time in history were killing people in the name of their religion for more then the last 400 years.

I pray that you find a faith and can change the n/a in your profile soon. I pray that the faith you choose does not kill persons that don’t believe the same as your chosen faith.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I have never beat my mother. But i guess an educated discussion in this forum is out of the question.

An educated discussion is always welcome. An attack with the intend IMHO to bring others to anger is not something allowed in the forums.

 

[melensdad]

Please, we do not work in facts and truths when it comes to the subject of the crusades.

Please maintain some political correctness and just apologize to all Muslims for…mmmm…uhhh…???..well…everything!

Oh, OK. I’m sorry. But you took all the fun out of the discussion

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I kept trying to go back to the original subject, but i got attacked as soon as i started it… I really dont know why you guys are so jumpy. Are you guys so ashamed of your religion’s past?

Either way… please… lets go back to the OP: future of the muslim religion

I’ll let that pass…Would you please, then, respond to this that I posted earlier?

juancpath,

Is your point something like this: “We ought not to blame Islam for all of the excesses of some Muslims anymore than we ought to blame the Church for some of the excesses of some Catholics?” If so, I tend to agree, with some exceptions.

CDL

 

[Montalban]

I wonder if 400 years from now, Muslims will be seen as we see the catholic church as it was 400 years ago. Willing to kill everyone who does not follow their religion.

Who’s ‘we’?

 

[Montalban]

It is very true that evil people did horrible things in the name of the church. But lets not forget the the main topic of this post… Whether you want it or not, the church was stained by the blood of many innocent people in 400 years ago. +±

Also, lets not forget the main reason for America being colonized was to get souls for the church. Which indirectly caused the death of millions of native americans.

Why would a God bring such a destruction to a so many people? Why would God want people who had lived in harmony for thousands of years to be destroyed and be swalowed by the greed of europeans?

I thought it was to get gold!

 

[Godi]

I wonder if 400 years from now, Muslims will be seen as we see the catholic church as it was 400 years ago. Willing to kill everyone who does not follow their religion.

There probably won’t be any Muslims.

 

[Montalban]

There probably won’t be any Muslims.

Amen

 

[dolphinlove]

There probably won’t be any Muslims.

They way they breed… i dont like the chances…

 

[thedavidwilson]

Number of Native Americans Catholics killed in South America alone during the Inquisition: 16 Million.

Go figure that…

Uh, please back that up and don’t include those that died from disease.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Many of the things i have raised in this discussion are subject of debate since i can never be 100% sure the the churche killed 100 million of 100 people … but one thing i have seen with my own eyes. and are actually in museums in Sucre, all the machines of torture that the church used to convert unwilling indians… Furthermorre I was there when they found hundreds of fetus in a Convet’s catacumbs. The church actually performed abortions on unwed females if they agreed to become nuns.

I truly wish you guys had seen it… but the church has done a pretty nice job hidding it.

Someone worked out the number of people who were killed by the inquisition over the ~400 years it had existed. It amounted to about 12 people a year. I think Texas would be just as horrible with their use of the death penalty, not to mention most muslim countries. When you say 100 million people back it up. What historical records are you baseing this on?

Also the inquisition was a state run program run by the Spanish Gov. The Church repeatedly tried to curb it. I think your facts are way off and you are placing the blame in the wrong place.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Europe is not the Church. Watching Apocalypto may help you begin to get a glimpse of some other factors. Study the history of the Society of Jesus to see how the Church tried to stop the barbarity. Who began the Crusades? I don’t ask because I don’t know. I ask because I’m not sure that you know.

CDL

Amen!
It was the Dominicans who railed against the spanish for their treatment of the native americans. This was the begining of international law and indigineous rights which were unknown at the time. This was a creation of the Church

And if the Aztecs were wiped off the map I say good riddence. That society with its human sacrafices was worse than nazism.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Number of Native Americans Catholics killed in South America alone during the Inquisition: 16 Million.

Go figure that…

I don’t think the inquisition was in South America. It existed in Spain and was to root out Jewish and Muslim revolutionaries who were trying to undermine the spanish govenment. This was shortly after Spain retook its territory from the muslims…the muslims who by the way invaded and occupied their country.

 

[Montalban]

I don’t think the inquisition was in South America. It existed in Spain and was to root out Jewish and Muslim revolutionaries who were trying to undermine the spanish govenment. This was shortly after Spain retook its territory from the muslims…the muslims who by the way invaded and occupied their country.

I’m unaware of it being in America either.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Not by the Church.

CDL

Well, the Spanish Inquisition gave the Orthodox our first martyr here, St. Peter the Aleut.
umich.edu/~ocf/saint_peter_the_aleut.htm

That being said, the Inquisition was the epitomy of due process compared to the swords of Islam (a title prized by muslims, btw).

 

[Montalban]

Well, the Spanish Inquisition gave the Orthodox our first martyr here, St. Peter the Aleut.
umich.edu/~ocf/saint_peter_the_aleut.htm

That being said, the Inquisition was the epitomy of due process compared to the swords of Islam (a title prized by muslims, btw).

It reminds me of a line from the film Water

A Brittish commando is telling an American soldier not to interfere
“These people are British citizens. So if they’re going to die, it will be by a British bullet!”
Some distinction!

Miguel: Under British law, singing badly is not a crime

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It is very true that evil people did horrible things in the name of the church. But lets not forget the the main topic of this post… Whether you want it or not, the church was stained by the blood of many innocent people in 400 years ago. +±

Also, lets not forget the main reason for America being colonized was to get souls for the church. Which indirectly caused the death of millions of native americans.

Why would a God bring such a destruction to a so many people? Why would God want people who had lived in harmony for thousands of years to be destroyed and be swalowed by the greed of europeans?

Harmony, pleeeease! There’s a reason why all the murals of Mesoamerica show warriors, and the priests are carving out hearts.