Gabriel, the Annunciation, and Islam

[spn82756]

Question for discussion. If as Christians we believe that the Archangel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and have the Son of God, then what are we to think of the whole Muslim faith. Didn’t Mohammad claim that it was the Gabriel that gave him the Quran, which claims that Jesus the Christ is just a human?

 

[kamalayka9]

Question for discussion. If as Christians we believe that the Archangel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and have the Son of God, then what are we to think of the whole Muslim faith. Didn’t Mohammad claim that it was the Gabriel that gave him the Quran, which claims that Jesus the Christ is just a human?

“Even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach any other gospel than what we have preached, let him be anathema.”

And, don’t be deceived, because “even Satan can appear as an angel of light.”​

I always found it odd how everyone who knew him thought he was initially possessed, because during his “revelations,” he would fall to the ground, foam at the mouth, and have violent spasms and seizures. It does not sound like something that a true prophet of God would do!

 

[spn82756]

“Even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach any other gospel than what we have preached, let him be anathema.”

And, don’t be deceived, because “even Satan can appear as an angel of light.”​

I always found it odd how everyone who knew him thought he was initially possessed, because during his “revelations,” he would fall to the ground, foam at the mouth, and have violent spasms and seizures. It does not sound like something that a true prophet of God would do!

My thoughts exactly!

 

[staffsgt7]

The description of Gabriel in the Bible is the opposite of the description of Gabriel by Mohammed. And it was Mohammed who thought it was a demon. His wife said it was an angel (probably to shut Mohammed up) and SHE NEVER SAW IT. If you look at the description of this thing that visited Mohammed he was afraid of it. And Mary was soothed and told not to be afraid. Completely opposite. Or is it that a little girl had more courage than an old man? Mary was in a society that stoned women for being unwed and pregnant, Mohammed leeched off of his wife in a society that was not yet Islamic and women held their own. Or maybe I should say were not treated like animals yet until Mohammed inserted his mysoginistic feelings onto them via a religion.

Let me add that there are so many things that are the complete opposite from what the Bible says and what the Koran says that I don’t know how any of the leaders of Judaism or Christianity can say that Islam is associated with them. Especially since Islam is bent on the other two’s destruction. And not by a peaceful way either, but by ‘the sword’.

As with the angel that was described in the Bible, more than once I might add, the Angel that Mohammed described was the complete opposite.

 

[KathleenGee]

True religion recognizes common humanity…and the Ahmadis are non-violent and persecuted by the Sunnis and Shias. But their understanding of Christ is mythical and contradictory as you pointed out.

They need to return to their roots when the Arab scholars were drawing on Plato, Socrates…

 

[staffsgt7]

True religion recognizes common humanity…and the Ahmadis are non-violent and persecuted by the Sunnis and Shias. But their understanding of Christ is mythical and contradictory as you pointed out.

They need to return to their roots when the Arab scholars were drawing on Plato, Socrates…

How does that tie into the discussion of this thread? I am not trying to get on your case, I was just wondering where this is coming from. Are you carrying on a ‘conversation’ with someone and we don’t know about it?

Even the shias have persecuted by the sunni because they are a minority. They are the ones the Sunni have been trying to blame for taqiyya, as if the Sunni doesn’t practice it either. So much for all that peace in Islam.

 

[KathleenGee]

I am referring to Vatican II and recognizing some authentic faith in various religions of the world.

St. Paul in Romans speaks of mankind being able to discern something of God, many times by simply reflecting on nature.

When Muslims recognize the inherent worth and dignity of all human beings and to treat them accordingly – If I understand correctly the condemned Adhmazis sect of Islam – that value in itself is a sign of something of truth within Islam. Nothing more.

 

[Bluegoat]

Question for discussion. If as Christians we believe that the Archangel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and have the Son of God, then what are we to think of the whole Muslim faith. Didn’t Mohammad claim that it was the Gabriel that gave him the Quran, which claims that Jesus the Christ is just a human?

This is a very odd question to me. Obviously Christians find the NT writings and story the most convincing, and believe it, and not what Muslims believe.

OTOH, Muslims don’t find the Christian version as plausible as the Muslim one.

They believe different things happened - different facts. Where is the confusion?

As far as what Mohammad really thought or experienced - who can say for sure? I don’t find Islam that convincing theologically, but I wouldn’t venture a thought on whether he was deluded, mistaken, or lying.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Question for discussion. If as Christians we believe that the Archangel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and have the Son of God, then what are we to think of the whole Muslim faith. Didn’t Mohammad claim that it was the Gabriel that gave him the Quran, which claims that Jesus the Christ is just a human?

The birth, life, death, and ressurrection of Christ was foretold in prophecy, hence our proof our faith is divinely inspired because only God can write prohecy. The Qur’an is a mish-mash of verses which have no context, no chronology, and no proof of divine inspiration.

 

[Bluegoat]

The birth, life, death, and ressurrection of Christ was foretold in prophecy, hence our proof our faith is divinely inspired because only God can write prohecy. The Qur’an is a mish-mash of verses which have no context, no chronology, and no proof of divine inspiration.

Hmm, what about other religions that involve prophesy? Does this prove that they are true too???

 

[gmcbroom]

StaffSgt7,
Islam isn’t bent on the destruction of Judaism. In fact I read somewhere in the Koran that God holds a special place in his heart for the Jewish people and the Muslims are not to molest them, for Israel is theirs. They are His Chosen people. As for the Christians thats another story; but we are People of the Book, per se so they shouldn’t really be persecuting us either. Whenever the Jewish people or Christian people are attacked that has more to do with the ignorance of the attacker and or politics and nothing to do with God. They’ll coach it as a religious war but in reality its over land, money, and political power. It’s been awhile since I read the Koran but thats just what I remember.
I’ll admit after reading the Koran, that Islam isn’t my cup of tea, but I still respect it as a religion even if I don’t follow it.

 

[jakasaki]

StaffSgt7,
Islam isn’t bent on the destruction of Judaism. In fact I read somewhere in the Koran that God holds a special place in his heart for the Jewish people and the Muslims are not to molest them, for Israel is theirs. They are His Chosen people. As for the Christians thats another story; but we are People of the Book, per se so they shouldn’t really be persecuting us either. Whenever the Jewish people or Christian people are attacked that has more to do with the ignorance of the attacker and or politics and nothing to do with God. They’ll coach it as a religious war but in reality its over land, money, and political power. It’s been awhile since I read the Koran but thats just what I remember.
I’ll admit after reading the Koran, that Islam isn’t my cup of tea, but I still respect it as a religion even if I don’t follow it.

Islam is waiting for Isa to return & mohamad will be right behind him

Isa will break all of the Crosses & destroy Christianity

Isa will kill the swine

Isa will terminate all religions and make islam the global religion

Isa will then live on earth and die

**
They’ll coach it as a religious war but in reality its over land, money, and political power. **

Land? Land? Do you know how much land islam has? They want it all and they won’t stop until the get it.

What’s land? They can’t live gracefully & peacefully with their Christian neighbors.

They have driven the Christians out of their lands!

They have the entire middle east and they WANT a small tiny little piece of earth called Israel.

Nothing will satisfy them more than to grab that small state called Israel… Nothing!

So,… sorry poster… I disagree with your view of islam.

 

[spn82756]

Islam is waiting for Isa to return & mohamad will be right behind him

Isa will break all of the Crosses & destroy Christianity

Isa will kill the swine

Isa will terminate all religions and make islam the global religion

Isa will then live on earth and die

Land? Land? Do you know how much land islam has? They want it all and they won’t stop until the get it.

What’s land? They can’t live gracefully & peacefully with their Christian neighbors.

They have driven the Christians out of their lands!

They have the entire middle east and they WANT a small tiny little piece of earth called Israel.

Nothing will satisfy them more than to grab that small state called Israel… Nothing!

So,… sorry poster… I disagree with your view of islam.

You’ve got it down pretty well. You did forget to mention that ANY protection afforded Christians and Jews (a fallacy in itself) is predicated upon paying a protection tax.

Their Isa is not the Jesus of the Bible. Their Isa a fraud.

 

[jakasaki]

You’ve got it down pretty well. You did forget to mention that ANY protection afforded Christians and Jews (a fallacy in itself) is predicated upon paying a protection tax.

Their Isa is not the Jesus of the Bible. Their Isa a fraud.

Yeah, I left the stupid tax out because it’s “stupid” but trust me my dear, I didn’t foget. It was done on purpose.

And yes, the Isa of the koran is not our Jesus Christ The LORD!

 

[jakasaki]

Question for discussion. If as Christians we believe that the Archangel Gabriel told Mary that she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and have the Son of God, then what are we to think of the whole Muslim faith. Didn’t Mohammad claim that it was the Gabriel that gave him the Quran, which claims that Jesus the Christ is just a human?

If you read Al-Alaq Sura #96 which was the beginning if the “so called revelation” to mohamad, The Angel Gabriel is violent and forceful.

The was no passage like… ““do not be afraid mohamad, I am Gabriel and God has sent me””… type of thing.

It’s all one man’s delusional dreams & fantasies which is compiled in the koran.

He was so obsessed with the Pagans & the Jews & the Christians of his time and just invented a new religion as he went along… just like JSmith.

No difference

 

[spn82756]

If you read Al-Alaq Sura #96 which was the beginning if the “so called revelation” to mohamad, The Angel Gabriel is violent and forceful.

The was no passage like… ““do not be afraid mohamad, I am Gabriel and God has sent me””… type of thing.

It’s all one man’s delusional dreams & fantasies which is compiled in the koran.

He was so obsessed with the Pagans & the Jews & the Christians of his time and just invented a new religion as he went along… just like JSmith.

No difference

You’ve got that right. As a matter of fact…I have read that Christology was something that was causing disagreement amongst Arab Christians of his time. No better way to solve the problem than to say that Isa was just a human

 

[jakasaki]

You’ve got that right. As a matter of fact…I have read that Christology was something that was causing disagreement amongst Arab Christians of his time. No better way to solve the problem than to say that Isa was just a human

Yes indeed. That is why mohamad and the authors of the koran always state…

“oh Jesus, son of Mary”… blah. blah…

Christ was only “son of Mary” which is true **BUT **Christ was just a prophet to mohamad and his followers.

And if you read the koran carefully, what it states about Jesus Christ Our LORD, is nonsense. It’s taken out of “heretical” books of mohamads time.

 

[dzheremi]

You don’t even really need to have read it all that carefully to see the stories it has about “Isa” came out of non-canonical writings like the Arabic Infancy Gospel which were incorporated into the Qur’an due to their popularity among the pre-Islamic Arabs.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hmm, what about other religions that involve prophesy? Does this prove that they are true too???

There is no other religion that has foretold and fulfilled prophecy like Christianity. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

That’s why only Christianity has a reasonable claim to be a divinely inspired faith.

 

[Bluegoat]

There is no other religion that has foretold and fulfilled prophecy like Christianity. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

That’s why only Christianity has a reasonable claim to be a divinely inspired faith.

THis just isn’t the case. I am a Christian, and not a relativist by any means, but there are other examples of religions with prophesy as least as clear as what we see in Judaism and Christianity. There are many ways to explain this - for example people can read back into what was written and put a particular spin that fits their situation either deliberately or not; they can fudge the facts to fit the prophesy; often prophesies can be vague enough to encompass many instances.

And some people think that Christians claims of fulfilled prophesy are of this type. In some cases it’s probably even true - for example the claims that Virgil wrote about Christ in the Aeneid.