Galileo

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Just wanted to comment on the whole earth center thingy…

I dont know what the center of the universe is but I do know one thing. I use CAD programs all day long. All 3D modeling. That being said I can make the center of anything anywhere. I think the whole center of the universe question is unanswerable. To place a center point is all about perspective. I can draw the entire universe with all the laws and have the center defined anywhere…Mars, Venus, some star way out there…doesn’t matter at all.
 
Shlomey, you have been blessed with a love for truth. Oh how I hope your faith holds up. You are on the path that will test your faith as it has tested millions before you. Alas, all but a few have failed this test, prefering the word of men instead.

I tell you that the infallibility of the Fathers and of Pope Paul V’s 1616 decree has never been falsified. The fact is that only God knows the relative movements between the earth and sun. So far no man has ever falsified the Fathers, the Bible and the Church of 1616 and 1633.

But now that you know watch the devils come to destroy this faith telling us that man has ‘proven’ the sun is still relative to the earth. If you try to hold on to your Catholic instincts that should favour the divine guidance, they will laugh at you and ridicule your ‘scientific’ ignorance.

So now you know, but is your faith strong enough?
It seems to me you are placing way too much weight on the belief in the geocentric theory of the Universe. The fact that we have to look back hundreds of years to have definitive statements from the Church on the Issue seems to suggest that the Catholic Church’s leadership currently does not place a great deal of importance on the issue. This is particularly true since I know of no Catholic School, teaching with the approval of the Church, that fails to teach the modern scientific understandings of the the Solar System and the Universe.

Unlike Galileo, modern science actually has an array of evidence that strongly suggest a heliocentric model of the Solar System (Just ask NASA, launching a spacecraft in the direction of the Earth’s apparent rotation is loads easier than launching it in any other direction).

It is true that St. Augustine and the other Church Fathers argued for a Geocentric Universe, but St. Augustine also argued against taking an overly literal interpretation of scripture on matters of natural philosophy when the evidence clearly contradicted such a literal interpretation.

Ultimately, scientific observation and scriptural interpretation must be brought into agreement. To reject either suggests that either is false, is to suggest that God is deceiving us (either through scripture or through our senses) and that is an untenable position.


Bill
 
Just wanted to comment on the whole earth center thingy…

I dont know what the center of the universe is but I do know one thing. I use CAD programs all day long. All 3D modeling. That being said I can make the center of anything anywhere. I think the whole center of the universe question is unanswerable. To place a center point is all about perspective. I can draw the entire universe with all the laws and have the center defined anywhere…Mars, Venus, some star way out there…doesn’t matter at all.
Well Relativity tends to get in the way if we want to define the Earth as the Center of the Universe and define the rest of the Universe revolving around us. Since each star in the sky (except for the sun) can be demonstrated to be very far away from us, if they were actually rotating around the Earth every day, they would have to be traveling at many thousands of times the speed of light. Therefore from an inertial stand point, they can’t actually be traveling around us.


Bill
 
Do you mean to say that the earth is the center of our solar system?
I see the wolves are back, doing their best to convince the few from finding a truth of faith. I told you Shlomey because they and Churchmen since 1741-1820 think the Church of the Fathers, 1616, 1633 and 1642 were proven wrong and the heretic Galileo was proven right, nobody is allowed to even think they were not wrong, nor had divine providence guiding them.
Not only will they try to convince you the earth moves when the Church said the Scriptures reveal it does not, but they also try to tell you the church of the anti-Copernican decree couldn’t tell the difference between faith and science. If the Church of 1616 and 1633 could not tell the difference between faith and science then God help us all for then we belong to a Church once run by a bunch of idiots.

The answer to your question above is that yes, the bible reveals we are actually at the centre of the universe. Open your eyes and look.
Now Sholmey your faith is being tested. Do you believe in the Fathers or those who have bitten the apple.
 
It seems to me you are placing way too much weight on the belief in the geocentric theory of the Universe. The fact that we have to look back hundreds of years to have definitive statements from the Church on the Issue seems to suggest that the Catholic Church’s leadership currently does not place a great deal of importance on the issue. This is particularly true since I know of no Catholic School, teaching with the approval of the Church, that fails to teach the modern scientific understandings of the the Solar System and the Universe.

Unlike Galileo, modern science actually has an array of evidence that strongly suggest a heliocentric model of the Solar System (Just ask NASA, launching a spacecraft in the direction of the Earth’s apparent rotation is loads easier than launching it in any other direction).

It is true that St. Augustine and the other Church Fathers argued for a Geocentric Universe, but St. Augustine also argued against taking an overly literal interpretation of scripture on matters of natural philosophy when the evidence clearly contradicted such a literal interpretation.

Ultimately, scientific observation and scriptural interpretation must be brought into agreement. To reject either suggests that either is false, is to suggest that God is deceiving us (either through scripture or through our senses) and that is an untenable position.


Bill
Mchale, first of all there is no evidence for the immobility of the sun and mobility of the earth. Such evidence is impossible. There is plenty of evidence used to ‘prove’ Heliocentricism, but they don’t tell you the same evidence can also ‘prove’ geocentricism. It is all relative out there with two answers to every fact.

When Churchmen were convince the earth was proven to be moving around the sun, they began a great U-turn. They substituted belief in the divine guidance for belief in human reason . Yes, a great loss of faith and it still permeates the Church today, except for a growing number of Catholics who once given the facts are prepared to ignore the Copernicans and chose faith in their Church once again. I include some Catholic priests that I know.
Convinced that Galileo was right and the divinely guided Church wrong, there began an industry inside the Church trying to worm their way out of a ‘proof’ that the Church was very fallible and thus not guided by Christ as the Church taught from the beginning. Now we Catholics cannot have that can we? So, what did they do. Well there is a recorded history of what they did, all 6,000 documents discussed in a book called Retrying Galileo. You know what, I was shocked and ashamed of the antics of all, up to the popes, in their flight away from the Fathers, away from the Church of the whole 1740 years before them. Every excuse they could invent was used, some that would be thrown out of any secular court, but not one attempt to legally retry Galileo or to legally abrogate that decree of 1616.
In 1835 pope gregory XVI decided to hide the 1616 decree ‘without comment.’ So, while it is still legally in force, Galileo is still legally ‘suspect of heresy’, they pretend it is gone,
never existed in the first place.So, that is why it has been written out of Denzingers, out of the record, never mentioned in schools, in seminaries and certainly not in the CCC.
 
I see the wolves are back, doing their best to convince the few from finding a truth of faith.
If we are wolves for believing in the Heliocentric model of the Solar System, then the Catholic brother who helped teach it to me must also be a wolf. This is even odder when one considers that he is currently working on the staff of the Vatican Observatory!
I told you Shlomey because they and Churchmen since 1741-1820 think the Church of the Fathers, 1616, 1633 and 1642 were proven wrong and the heretic Galileo was proven right, nobody is allowed to even think they were not wrong, nor had divine providence guiding them.
Not only will they try to convince you the earth moves when the Church said the Scriptures reveal it does not, but they also try to tell you the church of the anti-Copernican decree couldn’t tell the difference between faith and science. If the Church of 1616 and 1633 could not tell the difference between faith and science then God help us all for then we belong to a Church once run by a bunch of idiots.
Well, if we believe the 17th century leaders of church were better qualified in the natural sciences than modern scientists, we must also accept the notion that the current leaders of the Church are incompetent. After all, thousands of Catholic Schools the world over teach the Heliocentric model of the Solar System. Thus if a belief in the heliocentric model is heresy, the church not only tolerates it as a belief amongst the faithful, but actually is spreading it.

It seems far easier, to me, to believe that the Popes were not experts in Natural Philosophy 400 years ago than it is for me to believe that the current Church leaders accept and condone heresy today.
The answer to your question above is that yes, the bible reveals we are actually at the centre of the universe. Open your eyes and look.
Now Sholmey your faith is being tested. Do you believe in the Fathers or those who have bitten the apple.
The Bible says many things that seem to indicate that the Earth is still and that the sun moves around the Earth; however, it seems to me, that it is more likely that we don’t understand the fullness of the Bible than that we don’t understand the basic movements of the planets in the modern world.


Bill
 
The Bible says many things that seem to indicate that the Earth is still and that the sun moves around the Earth; however, it seems to me, that it is more likely that we don’t understand the fullness of the Bible than that we don’t understand the basic movements of the planets in the modern world.


Bill
Well, let me help you out here. Cassini will tell you that you are just one of the heretics that have fallen for Galileo’s lie. You see, Cassini will tell you that even the Pope, if he doesn’t accept geocentrism, is a heretic.

And Cassini and a handfull of real Catholics are the only thing standing between the Church and total apostacy.

Peace

Tim
 
Well Relativity tends to get in the way if we want to define the Earth as the Center of the Universe and define the rest of the Universe revolving around us. Since each star in the sky (except for the sun) can be demonstrated to be very far away from us, if they were actually rotating around the Earth every day, they would have to be traveling at many thousands of times the speed of light. Therefore from an inertial stand point, they can’t actually be traveling around us.


Bill
So, God is restricted to human reason then? Not even God can make the universe rotate around the earth. read the above and that is what it says.
 
Mchale, first of all there is no evidence for the immobility of the sun and mobility of the earth. Such evidence is impossible. There is plenty of evidence used to ‘prove’ Heliocentricism, but they don’t tell you the same evidence can also ‘prove’ geocentricism. It is all relative out there with two answers to every fact.
First of all, proof in the mathematical sense of the word is not possible. However, evidence does point more strongly in one direction than in another. Lets consider some of the basic evidence.
  1. The apparent inertia of the Earth is useful when launching rockets. It is far easier to launch a rocket into orbit in an eastward direction than in any other direction; this is because the rocket is taking advantage of the Earth’s rotation to reach orbital velocities.
  2. Geo-Stationary orbits: If the Earth was truly at rest, then geo-stationary Satellites would literally be hovering at a point in space against the gravity of the Earth. If we assume the Earth is rotating on its access, geo-stationary satellites are simply orbiting the Earth like other satellites.
  3. The parallax of stars: Stars that are closer to the Earth than others can be shown to move slightly over the course of the year with respect to the background stars. This movement matches very well with what would be predicted in an heliocentric model. There is no similarly simple solution to the problem in a geo-centric model of the Universe.
When Churchmen were convince the earth was proven to be moving around the sun, they began a great U-turn. They substituted belief in the divine guidance for belief in human reason . Yes, a great loss of faith and it still permeates the Church today, except for a growing number of Catholics who once given the facts are prepared to ignore the Copernicans and chose faith in their Church once again. I include some Catholic priests that I know.
Please provide the facts then. I have seen your arguments from scripture and from the history of the Church, but I want externally supported evidence. I.e., show me phenomena that are decidedly more easy to explain through geocentric models than with heliocentric models.

BTW, I also have a problem with your belief that divine guidance and and human reason are polar opposites. Reason has always been used by the Church and its Fathers and Doctors to discern God’s guidance.


Bill
 
😃
Just wanted to comment on the whole earth center thingy…

I dont know what the center of the universe is but I do know one thing. I use CAD programs all day long. All 3D modeling. That being said I can make the center of anything anywhere. I think the whole center of the universe question is unanswerable. To place a center point is all about perspective. I can draw the entire universe with all the laws and have the center defined anywhere…Mars, Venus, some star way out there…doesn’t matter at all.
lorathon,

yes, you are correct, but that is a philosophical answer. but God knows where the centre of the universe is and He chose to tell us it is the earth. The Church of 1616 defined and declared the Bible reveals this.
 
So, God is restricted to human reason then? Not even God can make the universe rotate around the earth. read the above and that is what it says.
On the contrary. I didn’t say that God couldn’t make the universe rotate around the Earth, I am saying he didn’t make the physical Universe rotate around us.

If I remember my theology properly, God can not operate contrary to reason, he can however operate beyond human reason. Therefore, if reason clearly shows that one sort of interpretation of the Bible does not match what we see in the world, then clearly it is our interpretation that is wrong, not the Bible or the world.


Bill
 
First of all, proof in the mathematical sense of the word is not possible. However, evidence does point more strongly in one direction than in another. Lets consider some of the basic evidence.
  1. The apparent inertia of the Earth is useful when launching rockets. It is far easier to launch a rocket into orbit in an eastward direction than in any other direction; this is because the rocket is taking advantage of the Earth’s rotation to reach orbital velocities.
  2. Geo-Stationary orbits: If the Earth was truly at rest, then geo-stationary Satellites would literally be hovering at a point in space against the gravity of the Earth. If we assume the Earth is rotating on its access, geo-stationary satellites are simply orbiting the Earth like other satellites.
  3. The parallax of stars: Stars that are closer to the Earth than others can be shown to move slightly over the course of the year with respect to the background stars. This movement matches very well with what would be predicted in an heliocentric model. There is no similarly simple solution to the problem in a geo-centric model of the Universe.
Please provide the facts then. I have seen your arguments from scripture and from the history of the Church, but I want externally supported evidence. I.e., show me phenomena that are decidedly more easy to explain through geocentric models than with heliocentric models.

BTW, I also have a problem with your belief that divine guidance and and human reason are polar opposites. Reason has always been used by the Church and its Fathers and Doctors to discern God’s guidance.

Bill
I was hoping this thread could keep to the Galileo story and not turn out to be a repeat of a thread that debated the G and H question. Let me try to answer your questions from a G perspective.

First note what you said above: ‘However, evidence does point more strongly in one direction than in another.’ Now this is not true, for since two empirical experiments, the Airy test and the M&M test the advantage went to geocentricism. That said, advantage, consensus etc., do not constitute proof. Now without such proof, nobody can say the 1616 decree was in error. But today, few Catholics give a damn about the authority of a papal decree and have no problem making up their own canon law to suit their belief system. To them there is enough ‘proof’ to disregard a papal decree of the Church. This is Protestantism or Modernism, sort of make it up religion as you go along, keeping the religion according to the dictates of science of course.
  1. there are many things the inertial field around the earth affect. No one denies the existence of an inertial field. But why do you presume a rotating earth causes it? Have you proof of this? Could a rotating universe around the earth not cause it also? Can you disprove this? you see then no papal decree can be deemed in error based on such speculation. Unless you are another Galileo of course, and there are millions of them around nowadays.
  2. again these satellites are using a phenomenon that has two possible causes, one H, one G.
  3. the parallax of stars has two explanations, one H, one G. Either will produce the very same phenomenon we see over a year.
You then want me to show you some evidence that is superior to the H model. I have told you of the Airy test and the M&M do show G has an advantage over H. But they came back with ad hoc theories in order to get the earth moving again. In other words, neither Gs nor Hs can claim any empirical advantage over the other because there is no definitive empirical way to prove either.

So we are down to what the Church defined in 1616, a philosophical answer and one of faith, absolute belief in the revelation of the Scriptures.

The philosophical advantage is that what is true to us human beings is the only truth in philosophy. In other words because we live on a globe that is for us the centre of the universe with the whole universe rotating in our sight every day then that is the superior philosophy to all. When we combine this with Catholic faith, as the Church did in 1616, we can accept from the word of the Church that God revealed it to be the centre in the Scriptures. We know that God can be known from the things that he made. A geocentric world is what we see having been placed here on earth by God, so why would he deceive us and His Church into believing what we see? With no empirical proof possible, why would any Catholic discard the 1616 decree of the Church in favour of an order that was confirmed by Freemasons of the Royal Society of London?

Be aware that a G world has to be a world created by God. A H world is an order that atheists need to eliminate God.

The Churchmen of 1741 to today, made their choice based on the certain belief that H has been proven. Pope John Paul II was sent a letter in 1981 informing him that no empirical proof for Copernicanism exists or ever existed. In his address to the press in 1992 he never once said there was any proof, indeed he reiterated that relativity prevails. Now you know that no such proofs exist. So, you have a different choice, you can pick faith or human reasoning.
I make the distinction between science and reasoning. Science is truth where it can be established. The history of the Copernican revolution shows that science was abandoned because it did not produce their H. Instead they resorted to human reasoning, that is, theories and assumptions. Human reasoning is fallible, the word of the Church when defining the meaning of Scripture on any matter is infallible.

Now take your pick.
 
On the contrary. I didn’t say that God couldn’t make the universe rotate around the Earth, I am saying he didn’t make the physical Universe rotate around us.

If I remember my theology properly, God can not operate contrary to reason, he can however operate beyond human reason. Therefore, if reason clearly shows that one sort of interpretation of the Bible does not match what we see in the world, then clearly it is our interpretation that is wrong, not the Bible or the world.


Bill
My but haven’t things changed since the church interpreted the Scriptures believing God can do anything and cannot be restricted by human reasoning (Pope Urban VIII to Galileo,1632).

Funny, but I look out and see a geocentric world.
 
I hope you don’t mind, I am going to have to trim your reply, to fit in my specific responses.
First note what you said above: ‘However, evidence does point more strongly in one direction than in another.’ Now this is not true, for since two empirical experiments, the Airy test and the M&M test the advantage went to geocentricism. That said, advantage, consensus etc., do not constitute proof.
Proof is a mathematical, not a scientific concept. Results in science are always tentative. That being said, M&M is explained neatly by theory of special relativity which has other experimental results to back it up. Therefore, M&M logically speaking can’t be used at this point to say anything about the position of the Earth in the Solar System, at least not without addressing Relativity.

I am less familiar with the Airy Experiment and will do research on it.
This is Protestantism or Modernism, sort of make it up religion as you go along, keeping the religion according to the dictates of science of course.
I wouldn’t call this modernism; on the contrary, I find divine beauty in how the Universe seems to be ordered by God.
  1. there are many things the inertial field around the earth affect. No one denies the existence of an inertial field. But why do you presume a rotating earth causes it? Have you proof of this? Could a rotating universe around the earth not cause it also? Can you disprove this? you see then no papal decree can be deemed in error based on such speculation. Unless you are another Galileo of course, and there are millions of them around nowadays.
I wouldn’t exactly call it an inertial field. Bodies have inertia. The rotation of the Earth therefore has rotational inertia and when a rocket takes off moving eastward, it robs a tiny amount of that inertia (in the same way a sling works). If the Universe was rotating, I don’t see how it could impart inertia onto the rocket, specifically since the rocket is moving in the exact opposite direction to the Universe’s apparent rotation.
  1. again these satellites are using a phenomenon that has two possible causes, one H, one G.
Please explain the concept of geostationary satellites in a geo-centric universe. The concept is well explained and understood in the Heliocentric Solar System by Newton.
  1. the parallax of stars has two explanations, one H, one G.
Again, please give an an explanation in the geocentric universe.
You then want me to show you some evidence that is superior to the H model. I have told you of the Airy test and the M&M do show G has an advantage over H. But they came back with ad hoc theories in order to get the earth moving again. In other words, neither Gs nor Hs can claim any empirical advantage over the other because there is no definitive empirical way to prove either.
You have mentioned tests that can support geocentric theories, but you don’t actually explain them or show how they support them. I would also say that claiming that Relativity is an ad hoc theory is a bit of a stretch, particularly considering how many phenomena General Relativity has successfully predicted (Gravitational Lensing, blackholes, the explanation for the anomalies in Mercury’s orbit, etc.).
A geocentric world is what we see having been placed here on earth by God, so why would he deceive us and His Church into believing what we see? With no empirical proof possible, why would any Catholic discard the 1616 decree of the Church in favour of an order that was confirmed by Freemasons of the Royal Society of London?
We think we see a geocentric universe, but what we see and reality often are at odds. We think we are solid beings yet modern science has shown that we are in reality mostly empty space.

Also, what the Freemasons or any other group has to say on the issue is, as far as I am concerned, irrelevant. The issue here is what the weight of the evidence suggests.
Be aware that a G world has to be a world created by God. A H world is an order that atheists need to eliminate God.
Since the geocentric model was most developed by pagan Greeks, I see no reason to believe that it requires God any more than an heliocentric world (i.e., either model, if correct still requires God).
The Churchmen of 1741 to today, made their choice based on the certain belief that H has been proven. Pope John Paul II was sent a letter in 1981 informing him that no empirical proof for Copernicanism exists or ever existed. In his address to the press in 1992 he never once said there was any proof, indeed he reiterated that relativity prevails. Now you know that no such proofs exist. So, you have a different choice, you can pick faith or human reasoning.
Faith and human reason must go hand in hand. That is a teaching of our current Pope and it is also something that Sts. Augustine and Aquinas both supported. I choose both and believe that those who try to claim it is an either/or proposition (either you or Atheists like Dawkins) simply have no idea what they are talking about!


Bill
 
I see the wolves are back, doing their best to convince the few from finding a truth of faith. I told you Shlomey because they and Churchmen since 1741-1820 think the Church of the Fathers, 1616, 1633 and 1642 were proven wrong and the heretic Galileo was proven right, nobody is allowed to even think they were not wrong, nor had divine providence guiding them.
Not only will they try to convince you the earth moves when the Church said the Scriptures reveal it does not, but they also try to tell you the church of the anti-Copernican decree couldn’t tell the difference between faith and science. If the Church of 1616 and 1633 could not tell the difference between faith and science then God help us all for then we belong to a Church once run by a bunch of idiots.

The answer to your question above is that yes, the bible reveals we are actually at the centre of the universe. Open your eyes and look.
Now Sholmey your faith is being tested. Do you believe in the Fathers or those who have bitten the apple.
As a great admirer of the Dominicans, I shall quote St. Thomas Aquinas:
“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
 
Human reasoning is fallible, the word of the Church when defining the meaning of Scripture on any matter is infallible. .
Please note:

The Catholic Church limits infallibility to matters of faith and morals. An individual’s or group’s word by word interpretation of passages which include references to the world about us, is not part of either faith or morals.
 
That being said, M&M is explained neatly by theory of special relativity which has other experimental results to back it up.

Bill
It would take me a week to reply to all your questions mchale, many of which I answered on my thread (now closed) Deny Geocentricism - deny the Virgin Birth. As regards your STR which you Copernicans rely on, well:

The perception is that all his peers applauded Einstein’s theories, and that time has vindicated and proven them true, as mchale would have us believe. In fact there were many who openly opposed the theories. Outstanding among these was Charles Lane Poor, Professor of Celestial Mechanics at Columbia University and author of many standard textbooks on astronomy.

Elsewhere, Professor Herbert Dingle records that Lord Rutherford as saying ‘that any Anglo-Saxon would have the sense to see that the theory of [special] relativity is nonsense’, ignoring all Albert Einstein had to say on the matter thereafter.

Dr Arthur Lynch, another distinguished mathematician, in 1932 wrote the self-explanatory The Case Against Einstein. He himself quotes M. Bouasse, Professor of Physics at the University of Toulouse, as speaking of the ‘insanities of the Relativists.’

In 1971, yet another mathematician, Dr Louis Essen, wrote a devastating analysis that included the statement that Einstein’s Relativity theories were not physical theories, but a number of sometimes contradicting assumptions. Be suspicious then, as to how Einstein’s absurdities became the ruling paradigm in a discipline that considers itself in the category of ‘rocket-science’.

Dingle on Relativity

Of all the falsifications of Einstein’s theories none make a better story than the uncovering of this absurdity. It began in 1972 with the publication of Professor Herbert Dingle’s new book ‘Science at the Crossroads’. Now the thing is that this same professor was for many years one of Einstein’s most devout pupils. On page 105 of his Crossroads he writes: ‘To the best of my knowledge there is no one living who can give objective evidence that he is more competent in the subject than I am.’ Way back in 1922, three years after Einstein’s Relativity theories, Dingle published the first book on the subject called Relativity for All. For fifty years he is associated with all the big-name relativist physicists of the era such as Einstein himself, Eddington, Tolman, Whittaker, Born, Shroedinger and Bridgman. His ‘The Special Theory of Relativity’ became the standard textbook on the subject, and could be found in use in most universities of America and Europe. Indeed, it was he that provided one of the two articles on Relativity in Encyclopaedia Britannica. But Dingle then saw his error.

The gist of Dingle’s long if simple explanation is that Einstein’s Relativity theory also requires that at great speed each of two measuring rods must be shorter than each other: two masses must attain weights greater than each other: two clocks must work faster than each other: and two twins must age more slowly than each other. Yes, Relativity requires us to accept that, in the case of the twins, for example, where one twin is blasted off into space at the speed of light and the other remains on earth, it makes no difference mathematically which twin ages the slower, for, with Einstein’s theory of light-speed, there is no difference between rest and motion. Thus for the theory to be viable, both twins must get younger (and older) than the other.

‘Unless this [anomaly] is answerable, the theory unavoidably requires that A works more slowly than B and B more slowly than A – which it requires no super-intelligence to see is impossible. Now, clearly, a theory that requires an impossibility cannot be true, and scientific integrity requires, therefore, either that the question just posed shall be answered, or else that the theory shall be acknowledged to be false.—’Herbert Dingle: Science at the Crossroads, Brian & O’Keeffe, London, p.16.

Sir Arthur Eddington, who played an important part in promoting Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, once wrote:

‘Beyond even the imagination of Dean Swift; Gulliver regarded the Lilliputians as a race of dwarfs; and the Lilliputians regarded Gulliver as a giant. That is natural. If the Lilliputians had appeared dwarfs to Gulliver, and Gulliver had appeared a dwarf to the Lilliputians – but no; that is too absurd for fiction, and is an idea only to be found in the sober pages of science.’ --A.S. Eddington: Space, Time and Gravitation, ch.1,

For thirteen years Dingle challenged the Relativists to rebut his falsification of Einstein’s relativity. Knowing they were on a beating to nothing, the fellows of the Royal Society; the scientific journals in England and America, and even the popular press with the sole exception of The Listener (1969), “ignored, evaded, suppressed and indeed treated in every possible way except that of answering it by the whole scientific world.”

Now dear readers, that is the Special theory of Einstein’s the Copernicans on this thread put up to disprove the M&M experiment didn’t show the earth does not move. I am going to bed.
 
As a great admirer of the Dominicans, I shall quote St. Thomas Aquinas:
Oh you hypocrits, using the words of a Saint in a manner that could show them up as stupid or something. Are you not aware that St thomas completed a theology of geocentricism for the Church. How does that sit with your quote then?
 
Oh you hypocrits, using the words of a Saint in a manner that could show them up as stupid or something. Are you not aware that St thomas completed a theology of geocentricism for the Church. How does that sit with your quote then?
Simple:
a) St. Thomas is not infallible
b) He was speaking not about an issue of faith/morals
c) He had no access to the evidence we are presented nowadays

my conclusion: I think he would not have denied it if you knew of the evidence science presents…

For all I think: the location of our planet is rather irrelevant. God is still God and the Catholic Church is the one true Church guided by the Holy Spirit in terms of faith & morals.

peace 🙂
 
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