Gallup: Majority would support federal law legalizing gay marriage in all 50 states, 52/43

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JamesCollins said:
hotair.com/archives/2013/07/29/gallup-majority-would-support-federal-law-legalizing-gay-marriage-in-all-50-states-5243/

The article says 60% of Catholic support a federal law legalizing gay marriage. I don’t think we can blame that result on the number of lapsed Catholics answering the question. Why are Catholics more likely than the rest of the population to support legalizing gay marriage?
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I don’t agree with the premise that Catholics are more likely to approve of gay marriage. These conclusion seem questionable to me.
 
Not surprising . There is a growing liberal segment within Catholicism vs the traditional
 
Once again, it would be interesting to see the “practicing Catholic” statistic. Many are born into Catholicism vs. say Evangelicals who make a conscious choice of their faith and religion, what Church exactly they go to, etc.

It’s good to belong to one Universal Church as the Catholic Church is versus going Church hunting but this kind of poll shows the downside.
 
OriginalJS said:
I don’t agree with the premise that Catholics are more likely to approve of gay marriage. These conclusion seem questionable to me.
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The poll says only 38% of Protestants accept gay marriage. I don’t know why you wouldn’t accept the results of the poll. Look at the number of Catholic politicians who have come out in favor of legalizing gay marriage starting with the current Vice-President. If you look at the states that have legalized gay marriage, a number of them (Massachusetts, Maine, New York, California) have larger than normal Catholic populations. The states most strongly against gay marriage are found in areas where there are large Protestant and Mormon populations (the Southern states, Utah, and Idaho).
 
OriginalJS said:
I don’t agree with the premise that Catholics are more likely to approve of gay marriage. These conclusion seem questionable to me.
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Might be true, though. There are organizations and publications more or less “within” the Church that mightily promote moral relativism. We are, I think, on the verge of seeing the collapse of many Church-related organizations and (quite possibly) a shrinkage in the number of people who even claim to be Catholics. Fifty years of widespread moral misdirection cannot fail to have consequences.

I am again reminded of Flannery O’Connor’s prediction that the most fertile ground for conversion to Catholicism will, in the future, be in the South. Despite the enormous numbers of Catholics in the East, or at least those who say they are, I often wonder about what that will really look like in the future.

Rhode Island is the only “majority Catholic” state, but look at who they elect and what laws they pass. Will it someday be a small minority while perhaps the only “majority Catholic” state will be Georgia or Mississippi?

Stranger things have happened.
 
JamesCollins said:
hotair.com/archives/2013/07/29/gallup-majority-would-support-federal-law-legalizing-gay-marriage-in-all-50-states-5243/

The article says 60% of Catholic support a federal law legalizing gay marriage. I don’t think we can blame that result on the number of lapsed Catholics answering the question. Why are Catholics more likely than the rest of the population to support legalizing gay marriage?
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It’s not the faithful Catholics who believe this way unless the question was asked in a tricky way such as “do you believe that gays should have equal rights?”.
 
livingwordunity said:
It’s not the faithful Catholics who believe this way unless the question was asked in a tricky way such as “do you believe that gays should have equal rights?”.
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On Sunday the mass reading included an Old Testament reading on Sodom and Gomorrah. The priest had a wonderful homily talking about how important it was to avoid the sin generally attributed to Sodom and how it was against the law of nature and the family. Unfortunately, he didn’t come right out and say that the sin involved was homosexuality. A great homily, and maybe most of the people in the pews understand it, but why was he afraid to mention the word homosexuality?
 
It’s positively frightening to see “a federal law legalizing gay marriage” because not only is this against the fundamentals of the Faith, to think one wants to have the Federal Government impose this on all States is outrageous and I would say Unconstitutional.

By the way, it needs to be mentioned again, California actually voted against Gay Marriage 2 times, 2 times against Gay Marriage by a Public Vote, the Judicial Branch overrode those desires of the people.

I would suppose it would pass in New York though actually, the legislature there passed it not the people.

Chris Christie of New Jersey wisely vetoed a Gay Marriage Bill from the Legislature saying the people should decide.

Again, Gay Marriage is a Democrat Platform, Union Members, blue collar workers sometimes push the Democrat Agenda. Some of them may be ethnic types and Catholic but none the less, would vote for Gay Marriage.

Sad commentary.
 
JamesCollins said:
On Sunday the mass reading included an Old Testament reading on Sodom and Gomorrah. The priest had a wonderful homily talking about how important it was to avoid the sin generally attributed to Sodom and how it was against the law of nature and the family. Unfortunately, he didn’t come right out and say that the sin involved was homosexuality. A great homily, and maybe most of the people in the pews understand it, but why was he afraid to mention the word homosexuality?
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I’m no Biblical Scholar, you do pose an interesting question, I found this excerpt:
The scholar and activist Jay Michaelson proposes a reading of the story of Sodom that emphasizes the violation of hospitality as well as the violence of the Sodomites. “Homosexual rape is the way in which they violate hospitality—not the essence of their transgression. Reading the story of Sodom as being about homosexuality is like reading the story of an ax murderer as being about an ax.”[32] Michaelson places the story of Sodom in context with other Genesis stories regarding Abraham’s hospitality to strangers, and argues that when other texts in the Hebrew Bible mention Sodom, they do so without commentary on homosexuality. The verses cited by Michaelson include Jeremiah 23:14,[Jeremiah 23:14] where the sins of Jerusalem are compared to Sodom and are listed as adultery, lying, and strengthening the hands of evildoers; Amos 4:1-11 (oppressing the poor and crushing the needy);[Amos 4:1-11] and Ezekiel 16:49-50,[Ezekiel 16:49-50] which defines the sins of Sodom as “pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and did toevah before me, and I took them away as I saw fit.” Michaelson uses toevah in place of abomination to emphasize the original Hebrew, which he explains as being more correctly translated as “taboo”.[33]
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
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So, I’ve heard vague references that S and G is not only about homosexuality before. Perhaps this is a reason.
 
JamesCollins said:
On Sunday the mass reading included an Old Testament reading on Sodom and Gomorrah. The priest had a wonderful homily talking about how important it was to avoid the sin generally attributed to Sodom and how it was against the law of nature and the family. Unfortunately, he didn’t come right out and say that the sin involved was homosexuality. A great homily, and maybe most of the people in the pews understand it, but why was he afraid to mention the word homosexuality?
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Because the “gay” lobby would go after him to such a degree that the diocese would probably have to remove him just to take the heat off of the diocese. The “gay” lobby has an army of lawyers, the government, and the mainstream media on their side. A diocese trying to go against this is like David vs Goliath. What I noticed about the story of Sodom is how, according to what it says, every male citizen of the city young to old was a homosexual. Lot was not a citizen of Sodom. He was not a Sodomite, and presumably his immediate family were not citizens of Sodom either. The word “sodomy” is a word that relates to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and how it was full of homosexual men.
 
Two threads on the same subject, interesting. With all that goes on within and without the church everyday why such an interest in homosexuals ? What is it about perversion that catches the mind so often ?

World Youth Day was awesome ! Our God is a Mighty God !

Let us stop blaming the Catholic Church for every evil that exists !!
 
KrazyKat said:
Two threads on the same subject, interesting. With all that goes on within and without the church everyday why such an interest in homosexuals ? What is it about perversion that catches the mind so often?
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It’s because the mainstream media keeps it in everyone’s mind by constantly pushing it.
 
Catholic Answers has this article:
The rejection of homosexual behavior that is found in the Old Testament is well known. In Genesis 19, two angels in disguise visit the city of Sodom and are offered hospitality and shelter by Lot. During the night, the men of Sodom demand that Lot hand over his guests for homosexual intercourse. Lot refuses, and the angels blind the men of Sodom. Lot and his household escape, and the town is destroyed by fire “because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord” (Gen. 19:13).
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Throughout history, Jewish and Christian scholars have recognized that one of the chief sins involved in God’s destruction of Sodom was its people’s homosexual behavior. But today, certain homosexual activists promote the idea that the sin of Sodom was merely a lack of hospitality. Although inhospitality is a sin, it is clearly the homosexual behavior of the Sodomites that is singled out for special criticism in the account of their city’s destruction. We must look to Scripture’s own interpretation of the sin of Sodom.
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catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality
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Though it was mentioned why a sermon did not mention homosexuality in particular, I note often it seems sermons seem to address broader issues.
Unfortunately, he didn’t come right out and say that the sin involved was homosexuality. - Post #9
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From what I understand, the sin would have to involve “homosexual acts” so I think by this alone, we see this is a sensitive subject. “The sin involved was homosexuality”, yes, I suppose it would involve it just as promiscuous acts can involve heterosexuality.
 
KrazyKat said:
Two threads on the same subject, interesting. With all that goes on within and without the church everyday why such an interest in homosexuals ? What is it about perversion that catches the mind so often ?

World Youth Day was awesome ! Our God is a Mighty God !

Let us stop blaming the Catholic Church for every evil that exists !!
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The reality is the Catholic vote and Catholic politicians have been at the heart of keeping abortion legal in this country since 1972. The Protestant vote went 57-42 against Obama and the Catholic vote was 50-48 for Obama. The major supporters of abortion on demand have been Democratic Catholics like Kennedy and Pelosi. They are also beginning to do what they can to get gay marriage legalized. Perhaps the problem is the Catholic Church has not done anything to discipline politicians who vote against the Church’s position so the laity feel they have the right to be in favor of abortion and gay marriage as well.
 
JamesCollins said:
The reality is the Catholic vote and Catholic politicians have been at the heart of keeping abortion legal in this country since 1972. The Protestant vote went 57-42 against Obama and the Catholic vote was 50-48 for Obama. The major supporters of abortion on demand have been Democratic Catholics like Kennedy and Pelosi. They are also beginning to do what they can to get gay marriage legalized. Perhaps the problem is the Catholic Church has not done anything to discipline politicians who vote against the Church’s position so the laity feel they have the right to be in favor of abortion and gay marriage as well.
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Good post, I kind of see it this way, as to “Discipline”, I see it again as how Evangelicals make a conscious choice as to what religion they choose, Baptist and so on. Even the WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod is very conservative in their doctrines, I’ve read them online. Though many are born Lutheran obviously.

But yes, I have likewise seen figures by how Evangelicals vote and it is something to think, “I wish Catholics voted like that.”

Still, another part of the Catholic dilemma is demographics.

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedImages/Topics/Issues/Politics_and_Elections/exitpoll-1.png

pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx

This tells us a bit more.
 
JamesCollins said:
The reality is the Catholic vote and Catholic politicians have been at the heart of keeping abortion legal in this country since 1972. The Protestant vote went 57-42 against Obama and the Catholic vote was 50-48 for Obama. The major supporters of abortion on demand have been Democratic Catholics like Kennedy and Pelosi. They are also beginning to do what they can to get gay marriage legalized. Perhaps the problem is the Catholic Church has not done anything to discipline politicians who vote against the Church’s position so the laity feel they have the right to be in favor of abortion and gay marriage as well.
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Perhaps you are right. I do not understand why individual Catholics are so easily led astray.
 
BroomWagon said:
Good post, I kind of see it this way, as to “Discipline”, I see it again as how Evangelicals make a conscious choice as to what religion they choose, Baptist and so on. Even the WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod is very conservative in their doctrines, I’ve read them online. Though many are born Lutheran obviously.

But yes, I have likewise seen figures by how Evangelicals vote and it is something to think, “I wish Catholics voted like that.”

Still, another part of the Catholic dilemma is demographics.

pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted-2012-Preliminary-Exit-Poll-Analysis.aspx

This tells us a bit more.
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It looks to me like if the White Catholic vote had been the same as the White Protestant vote there is no way we would have elected a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage politician.
 
I also note, Conservative Politicians and I think these people in general do a good job,

Sarah Palin, '08 Veep candidate, raised Catholic I believe. Now Protestant I think.
Ted Cruz, Baptist, has Italian and Cuban heritage.
Scott Walker, Evangelist.
Mike Lee, unsure, hails from Utah, Protestant or Mormon.
Rick Perry, Evangelist
Rand Paul, I assume, some sort of Protestant, very pro-life.

So for Conservatives, I often wonder who are the top Catholic Politicians, some:

Paul Ryan, on some issues, I strongly agree, others a bit disappointed.
I would think Rubio is Catholic, I don’t know for certain.
John Boehner is Catholic. Though, yes, some would hedge on using the Conservative word for him.
John McCain, probably Catholic.
Susannah Martinez, Governor New Mexico, probably Catholic, again, I don’t know for sure

And:

Gov. Chris Christie, pro-life, vetoed gay marriage bill though some people still have some problems with him, I’m not a fan of the Hurricane Sandy episode.

But we must be reasonable as well, no politician is going to be perfect though I think Ted Cruz is ideal in about everything.
Also, I’d like to say, though I admire many of these Evangelical Politicians, I’m also weary of where we can go down a road and have too much “fire and brimstone” as characterizes some Protestant denominations or at least, individual Churches. In this, it is good to have one main Holy Universal Church.
 
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