Gallup Poll: U.S. Catholic Hispanic population becoming less religious and shrinking

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I’d urge them to be in the shoes of the 100 victims. If not even spiritual recompense is required, can we call God infinitely just?
 
chero23 said:
As a hispanic from a hispanic city like Dallas, I can tell you from a very personal point of view of why Hispanics are becoming Protestants and/or atheist. Most Hispanics at one point or another have immigrated into this country whether legally or illegally, and a lot of them if not 100% of them came with a Catholic devotion. Unfortunately they got to the USA and they see how things vary and are different than their home countries. Were in a country were 33,000 Christian Denominations exist. A lot leave the Cjurcj bc the Catholic Church does not comply to their demands. They go to denominations that accept divorce, or say premarital sex is ok as long as you repent. Unfortunately many come to this country an try to Americanize themselves and forget about the traditions and history that their is back home. Many of us have seen how a person from a small town goes into a larger town and 90% of those individuals exploit themselves. They have more liberties and options. I think that is what happening to our ethinicity unfortunately.

My family is Mexican, and I know that and pray that God always keeps me a faithful Catholic. Having seen how our Virgin mother appeared to Juan Diego and presented herself in his cloth, I mean it speaks volumes. My girlfriend who is a Seventh Day Adventist says that in her hometown I forgot what year it was, but a volcano hit her hometown. The lava was spilling quickly into the city. Some faithful men put a statue of the Virgin Mary on a table outside hoping she helped. She said that were the table was placed with the Virgin Mary the lava stopped.

Our Church is truth, We were raised and taught to be Catholic, that should be something we take very serioulsy and with pride. A lot of our family members died in our home countries for the freedom our Church. Great example the Cristeros in Mexico. i just think its not our job but our obliglation to defend and fight for what our ancestors believed, cried, bled, and fought for when they fought for our Religion.
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So basically, they leave for the same reason whites, black, and asians historically have - pride, disobedience, and sin.

I a less concerned about Hispanics leaving the Republican party than I am about them leaving the Catholic Church.

If we keep our brothers and sisters in the RCC, it follows that they will follow the party with the strongest commitment to the Church’s teachings on life. Whether or not that is the Republican party or not is up to the RNC. It clearly would mean the Hispanic vote will not go to any democrat on a national level, given their platform and allegiance to every major intrinsic evil the Church warns us against.
 
Frank_Drebin said:
So basically, they leave for the same reason whites, black, and asians historically have - pride, disobedience, and sin.

I a less concerned about Hispanics leaving the Republican party than I am about them leaving the Catholic Church.

If we keep our brothers and sisters in the RCC, it follows that they will follow the party with the strongest commitment to the Church’s teachings on life. Whether or not that is the Republican party or not is up to the RNC. It clearly would mean the Hispanic vote will not go to any democrat on a national level, given their platform and allegiance to every major intrinsic evil the Church warns us against.
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Unfortunately the Democrat party offers HIspanics goodies. Who votes against Santa Claus?

I think what we are seeing with HIspanics, and I don’t like to glob people into groups but there are some parallels between what we see with both HIspanics of Mexican origin and those of Cuban origin. The “first generation” inculcated the values espoused by the Church…strong families, community, marriage, life and the dignity of work.

The second and third generation HIspanic Americans have been marinated in our culture of “sex, drugs and rock n roll.” We are seeing a large increase in out of wedlock births, something not seen in this community. On another thread, it was noted that Hispanics are making up an increasing percentage of abortions. Thus the appeal of the Democrat message of we pay you not to work, not to provide for your child, not to be a responsible member of socity. So much easier than the hard work done by the previous generations.

We would think Republicans offer a positive message of opportunity, strong family, life and community spirit but it falls flat when instant gratification is the other option. The same can be said for the Church which does provide for the poor, the marginalized and the sick…but the Church also ASKS of you and let’s face it, human nature like water moves toward the path of least resistance.

Lisa
 
Lucky7 said:
Eh, in my experience, most priests don’t speak of these things either. So, I tend to think that many of these Hispanics are going to the Evangelical churches to actually hear about sin (!), etc. I think it’s high time for our clergy to speak about the not-so-feel-good topics. Because staying safe isnt increasing our numbers.
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I don’t think that’s a good strategy. Getting people to live in a more upright fashion is good objective, there are more than one strategies for getting there. I think that in many ways, the carrot is more effective than the stick.

With those still coming to Catholic Church, I’d rather talk about how prayer and other thoughts help us get closer to God. I suggest we talk with them about deepening experience of Christ in prayer and during the Liturgy, and in consecrating the heart to God. Meditating on the Jesus Prayer (“Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner”) for a few minutes a day, as our Orthodox brethren of Mt. Athos developed… all these bring the heart to God.

In the absence of changing the heart, exhortations about sin and controlling behavior don’t work. Telling teenagers not to have sex? Well, we’ve seen how that works. If the change isn’t made in the heart, it’s not going to stick.

Using a homily to say “don’t sin or else” seems to me more likely to scare people away who are at risk of leaving the Church. Meeting them where they are, helping them experience the love of God more fully seems to me a much more effective way to turn hearts to Christ.
 
mburn16 said:
The problem I think extends beyond this. This is actually more of a Catholic viewpoint, because it stresses the need to repent. But if you fall into the category who believes that as soon as you accept Jesus as “Lord and Savior”, you’ve gained an irrevocable ticket to Heaven…well, you see the problem.

Like I said, I have a large number of good, non-denom Protestant friends. Now, yes, their evangelism efforts are superior to most I’ve seen within a Catholic church (why do we never send people door to door?)…but its also the “free grace” philosophy. I once posed the question to one of them when we were camping:

Say that I was, for a while, a good, honest, churchgoing christian; that I accepted the power of Christ to forgive and willingly accepted his sacrifice and grace. Now assume that I went out and killed 100 innocent people. Am I still guaranteed salvation, without any further action?

His answer was to pause a moment, think on it, answer “yep”, and roll over inside his sleeping bag and go to bed.

How does the Catholic church combat the appeal of that theology?
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If a person with some common sense, and had heard your friend, wait for a minute to answer your scenerio, and that he was able to respond was “yep” ppl who run across door knockers and they respond to you like that, you should be weary of them. Unfrtunately ppl are not smart, or they know the truth but rather go to a church that abides to their beliefs and not those of what God wants.
 
Frank_Drebin said:
So basically, they leave for the same reason whites, black, and asians historically have - pride, disobedience, and sin.

I a less concerned about Hispanics leaving the Republican party than I am about them leaving the Catholic Church.

If we keep our brothers and sisters in the RCC, it follows that they will follow the party with the strongest commitment to the Church’s teachings on life. Whether or not that is the Republican party or not is up to the RNC. It clearly would mean the Hispanic vote will not go to any democrat on a national level, given their platform and allegiance to every major intrinsic evil the Church warns us against.
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But you see this is the problem, Republicans want borders closed, they want all immigrants sent back. Most hispanics who think straight, family loyalty is the most important thing. If one party tells you Hey Im Pro Life, and against gay marriage, but oh yea, Were going to send a bill through congress so that your family gets send back to their home country, well its obvious that most of them will say, man screw you, my family is more important.

I hear politicians and press say, oh yes the ppl are smart. No there not, this is a thread that shows that ppl are not smart. God gave us a rules, he told us say yes to life, say no to death, say yes to my church and my teachings. But we humans want God rules to bend backwards and forward so it can give us hope and certaintity tp go to heaven.

I just came back from having lunch with my mom and aunt, and I told them, i wish that God can come back soon, not for the world to end, but that he tells us, Ok guys I died on the cross for you, i left rules for you to follow, theirs no alternatives. I left a church which is visible, and a tradition which my apostles told you to follow, why are you so divided. I will restart the clock, and I hope all of you follow my rules.

I just hope that we can believe in him and follow his obedience the way he wants it not the way we want it.
 
Cojuanco said:
I’d urge them to be in the shoes of the 100 victims. If not even spiritual recompense is required, can we call God infinitely just?
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Well, the logic goes something like this:
  1. All humans are flawed, we all sin, and even if someone didn’t, they are stained by original sin.
  2. Mankind is fundamentally incapable of actually “making up” for sin…there can be atonement, but ultimately it is the forgiveness from God (rather than any act we do) that lifts the sin and permits entry to Heaven.
  3. Because there is no “degree” of sin (whereas Catholics believe in mortal/venial sins), no person is, from a theological basis, any more “good” or “just” than another. We are all stained by sin, all in need of God, and all going to hell without him.
  4. Grace was offered freely by God through the sacrifice of Christ, and the simple acceptance of such a gift is the extent of our responsibility (and ability) to get ourselves into Heaven.
  5. Since everyone is in need of Grace, and since none are more in need of grace than others, we can say God is “totally just” because he offers grace to all, and accepts all who seek it through him.
Its a relatively coherent theory, which I understand…even if I can poke holes in it.

And that is what we are up against. A theology that teaches that no level of sin can come between a man who loves God, and God himself. You can see why it is appealing.
 
chero23 said:
But you see this is the problem, Republicans want borders closed, they want all immigrants sent back. Most hispanics who think straight, family loyalty is the most important thing.
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Not exactly, while you’ll find plenty of people who “want the borders closed”, you’ll generally find them on both sides of the Political divide…and often for the same reasons.

Republicans do generally want ILLEGAL immigrants sent back, and in times of high unemployment, may oppose additional immigrant. They also are generally very supportive of the English language and established American culture.

But polls have shown that their primary challenges are economic when it comes to Latinos…not that they want everyone to speak English, but that they don’t want to have the government give out free healthcare.
 
fnr said:
I don’t think that’s a good strategy. Getting people to live in a more upright fashion is good objective, there are more than one strategies for getting there. I think that in many ways, the carrot is more effective than the stick.

With those still coming to Catholic Church, I’d rather talk about how prayer and other thoughts help us get closer to God. I suggest we talk with them about deepening experience of Christ in prayer and during the Liturgy, and in consecrating the heart to God. Meditating on the Jesus Prayer (“Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner”) for a few minutes a day, as our Orthodox brethren of Mt. Athos developed… all these bring the heart to God.

In the absence of changing the heart, exhortations about sin and controlling behavior don’t work. Telling teenagers not to have sex? Well, we’ve seen how that works. If the change isn’t made in the heart, it’s not going to stick.

Using a homily to say “don’t sin or else” seems to me more likely to scare people away who are at risk of leaving the Church. Meeting them where they are, helping them experience the love of God more fully seems to me a much more effective way to turn hearts to Christ.
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But what you are describing can be found at any church. I’m not saying don’t do what you are saying but let’s add in (alot more) talk that is decidedly Catholic.

And talking about sin worked for many hundreds of years. People actuallly listened to the Church! Talking about sin can be done in love and charity (not in a Bible thumping sort of way). I suspect that talk about the hard truths/sin in life is why the Evangelical church is bringing them in by the droves. We could learn a lot from them.
 
mburn16 said:
Not exactly, while you’ll find plenty of people who “want the borders closed”, you’ll generally find them on both sides of the Political divide…and often for the same reasons.

Republicans do generally want ILLEGAL immigrants sent back, and in times of high unemployment, may oppose additional immigrant. They also are generally very supportive of the English language and established American culture.

But polls have shown that their primary challenges are economic when it comes to Latinos…not that they want everyone to speak English, but that they don’t want to have the government give out free healthcare.
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Look mburn, i remember when Bush was president, the Hispanic communtiy was arguing, whose going to work the fields in California and Florida. I think it was Hannity or Limbaugh who said Americans are willing to do that job. They said that American (black and white would do it) I don’t think that they have, not even to this day as we speak. I mean why be ignorant about it. I completely agree, if they came here illegally and some reform (whatever Congress decides to pass) that they have some type of Probation, don’t just give it to them
 
Americans would do the work that illegal aliens do, but they want a decent pay scale for it. As someone once said, “An illegal alien from Mexico will do the same job an American does for alot less, and a Guatemalan or Honduran will work for less than the Mexican” Want to see where that ends ?
 
Seamus_L said:
Americans would do the work that illegal aliens do, but they want a decent pay scale for it. As someone once said, “An illegal alien from Mexico will do the same job an American does for alot less, and a Guatemalan or Honduran will work for less than the Mexican” Want to see where that ends ?
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This isn’t something that is true only in America. Our clinic hosts doctors from many other countries and we learned that particularly in Middle Eastern countries, the natives do not do the mundane or low skilled work. Instead workers are imported (enslaved in some cases) from other countries.

I always wonder why anyone believes human nature is different because of geography or even culture. There is always a strata of functions and workers. That being said, what some of the SOTB workers are doing are the jobs teens used to do back in the day. I grew up in a farming community and most of us did farmwork during the summer. There were no Hispanics in the fields when I grew up. My mother was raised on a farm also and said they would get workers from other states who came through on a yearly basis for the bean harvest or to pick fruit. I don’t know what the pay scale was vis a vis today (in the same dollars) but we worked in the fields for $1.50 per hour and happy to have this work believe me! I suspect were the current SOTB farmworkers to suddenly depart, there would be short term chaos but both the market and the supply of labor would balance itself.

Something tells me that people might start mowing their own lawns again, pulling their own weeds, planting their own flowers and sweeping their own walks. Al that was done long before the flood of undocumented workers and would be done again if they were not here. (Oh and NO I AM NOT SAYING DEPORT THEM ALL)

LIsa
 
I worry about them leaving the republican party and the RCC because this will mean that the democrats will run the country in two generations. There will be no meaningful conservative movement. America will become a socialist state ran by one party.
 
matt1985 said:
There will be no meaningful conservative movement.
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You mean like Limbaugh, Rove, Priebus, Sununu, Coulter, Hannity, Malkin, Trump, Norquist et al? What could possibly go wrong when you have such a movement?

The problem is whenever someone comes along and appears to be able to turn things around, Michael Steel or Chris Christie, for example, they’ll find ways to toss them under the bus.
 
matt1985 said:
I worry about them leaving the republican party and the RCC because this will mean that the democrats will run the country in two generations. There will be no meaningful conservative movement. America will become a socialist state ran by one party.
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I guess I’m more concerned with their Catholic faith. Our society will not survive the destruction of all of the stablizing influences of church, marriage and family, community groups in favor of big government and media propaganda. I fear we are on this path to societal destruction thanks to secular influences (we can call them Democrats :D)

Do we want to see people who no longer have the opportunities that our ancestors had, to come to America without a dime or skills and within a generation or two be part of a thriving and prosperous and stable country?

Catholicism as a structure (by those who actually practice it) results in a life of greater joy and love. There is no charity in government and no mercy in a hierarchy that has a vested interest in keeping a large segment of our population down and dependent.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
I guess I’m more concerned with their Catholic faith. Our society will not survive the destruction of all of the stablizing influences of church, marriage and family, community groups in favor of big government and media propaganda. I fear we are on this path to societal destruction thanks to secular influences (we can call them Democrats :D)
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moi aussi.
 
If I were Hispanic would I want to be with people who look at me and use language like “illegals,” “anchor babies,” “moochers,” “thieves” and “parasites”…

Or would I rather be with people who value my life, recognize my humanity and will treat me with respect.

Not a hard choice.
 
chero23 said:
I wouldn’t just blame Democrats. Everyone has gets a slice of the guilty pie. From the media, to society to the individuals.
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Read the post. The comment regarding Democrats was an aside, tongue in cheek although since Democrats are militantly pro abortion, pro gay marriage, anti family, anti self sufficiency I suggest they have a far larger role in the degradation of society. As Hispanics become less family, marriage, and church influenced, they start exhibiting the self destructive and thus societally destructive behaviors.

This isn’t a new concept. Ancient Greek philosophers noted that one learns loyalty and devotion and responsibility from the family and thus can participate productively in society with that foundation. Destroying the family puts society at risk because the participants never learned basic virtue. Trying to civilize unruly teens and twenty somethings isn’t for the faint of heart. Ask how life is in east L.A.

The self destructive behavior obviously predates the Democrats but they are just the latest standard bearers who champion such activity as “freedom” and “tolerance.”

Lisa
 
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