Garabandal Status?

[Edward_Henry]

Below are the three possible categories promulgated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

1. constat de supernaturalitate (it is established supernatural)
2. constat de non supernaturalitate (it is established not supernatural)
3. non constat de supernaturalitate (it is not established supernatural)

You have placed Garabandal in the second category.

But I understand Garabandal to be in the third category based on Bishop Vilaplana’s letter which uses the phrase “no constaba”.

Big difference.

Thank you for the helpful post.

To Jesus through Mary

 

[EIRCOMNET]

May I ask a couple of questions?

1. When is this supposed to happen?
2. Wouldn’t it have to be soon, as the involved persons are said to live to see it?

Cannot be long coming Joey, the blind apostle is over 80 years of age.

 

[thistle]

The Great Miracle that was to be visible to everyone was supposed to happen during the lifetime of Padre Pio and Pope John Paul II never materialised!

 

[adrift]

Below are the three possible categories promulgated by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

1. constat de supernaturalitate (it is established supernatural)
2. constat de non supernaturalitate (it is established not supernatural)
3. non constat de supernaturalitate (it is not established supernatural)

You have placed Garabandal in the second category.

But I understand Garabandal to be in the third category based on Bishop Vilaplana’s letter which uses the phrase “no constaba”.

Big difference.

My apologies that is what I meant to put.

 

[adrift]

The Great Miracle that was to be visible to everyone was supposed to happen during the lifetime of Padre Pio and Pope John Paul II never materialised!

This is from Yahoo

The people who desperately want to believe in the purported apparitions will continue to do so, no matter what happens. They will always find a way to re-interpret the “prophecy” so that it fits the reality.

Like this quote from one site:
"When Conchita found out Padre Pio died in Sept. 1968, she met his close friend, Father Bernardino Cennamo, at Lourdes, and asked him, ‘How is it that Our Lady told me Padre Pio would see the Miracle and he has died?’ Father Cenammo responded, ‘Padre Pio saw the Miracle before he died. He told me himself.’ "

If a prophecy that a person “will see the Miracle” can be declared fulfilled by saying “he saw it in heaven”, don’t you think they’ll just declare Joey’s blindness cured in heaven, too? I mean, it would hardly be heaven if your were still blind, would it?

There were many predictions that have not come true
Father Pio seeing the miracle, as was a priest who has also died along with Pope Paul VI. It was predicted that there would only be three popes left until the end if time. That would have been John Paul II and like the Mayan Calender the world has not ended. It was reinterpreted to mean something else. Who cares. There is many more red flags. I don’t want to break any rules and I think this thread is on the verge of doing so.

 

[thistle]

This is from Yahoo

There were many predictions that have not come true
Father Pio seeing the miracle, as was a priest who has also died along with Pope Paul VI. It was predicted that there would only be three popes left until the end if time. That would have been John Paul II and like the Mayan Calender the world has not ended. It was reinterpreted to mean something else. Who cares. There is many more red flags. I don’t want to break any rules and I think this thread is on the verge of doing so.

 

[NeedImprovement]

I realize this thread is on thin ice. An earlier Garabandal thread which some contributing members here were participating on has already had to be closed. But according to the information I’ve reviewed on this subject over the years , several parts of what is being paraphrased 2 posts ago may not be totally accurate.

Keeping in mind that we aren’t really given to discussing events of unconfirmed or yet-to-be confirmed purported predictions/prophecies as they pertain to private revelation, perhaps I might allude to one potential inaccuracy indirectly. Although it would be an easy error to make, it conveys a significantly different notion.

For what it’s worth, as far as I recall , (highlights mine) -

. . . Pope Paul VI. It was predicted that there would only be three popes left until the end if time. That would have been John Paul II . . .

according to a documentary I reviewed several times the wording was not “the end of time”, but rather the “end times” - subtle difference in wording ; big difference in concept.

The issue I’m gertting at isn’t whether someone agrees or not with a particular yet-to-be-confirmed-if-ever private revelation, but if we are being permitted to comment on the subject thus far, we owe it to each other to at least make an effort to verify our sources - otherwise we ourselves end up becoming the ones who “reinterpret” and promote reinterpretation of the original.

Case in point :

Almost two months ago, on one of the threads which started up here at the time of the canonization of St. Kateri Tekakwitha , () ,in all the elation, one of our members posted that St. Kateri used to “sleep on a bed of thorns” . Well, living just across the mighty St. Lawrence river from her shrine, I got to wondering what type of thorns these might be - there probably hadn’t been a whole lot of cultivated roses brought over here yet (350 years beforehand).

That left thorns from berry bushes (ouch) and among others, these really mean thorns we have from some trees which give berries here (sharp spiny and easily over 2 inches long and which won’t break - they just bend [if one were to whack a charging bear with a branch adorned with this stuff they’d definitely be able to teach the bear a permanent lesson about U-turns] ). So it wasn’t making a whole lot of sense to me . . . decided to do some research and I even found a formal presentation on (then Blessed) St. Kateri saying she “slept on a bed of thorns.”

I still wondered whom or what that formal presentation was quoting. So I decided it better to keep digging around a little. As it turned out, it was the Anishinabe Spiritual Centre which carried the information most true to the original – taken from the memoirs of Jesuit Fr. Pierre Cholonec – the spiritual director of St. Kateri.

He’d recorded that

Two or three months before her death, Catherine sprinkled her bed with pine needles, lay down on top of them, having only a blanket over her body, and then rolled over the needles during the night.

Now they aren’t the same as thorns, but please don’t get me wrong :I can tell you firsthand that dry pine needles are sharp and can very easily pierce even the toughest skin on the palm of one’s hand.

The point is accuracy in reporting what we read or hear when it comes to the facts. Someone missed the facts and makes a formal report, someone sees the formal report and assuming it’s accurate, reports it to a forum - then a whole bunch of people can be given a distortion of the facts - without any of them ever becoming aware of it.



Wishing all my brothers and sisters here a Blessed grace-filled Christmas.

 

[adrift]

according to a documentary I reviewed several times the wording was not “the end of time”, but rather the “end times” - subtle difference in wording ; big difference in concept…

You are correct that what was said was end of time whatever that means:shrug: but my point was that the prophecies always find a way to **re-interpret **the “prophecy” so that it fits the reality.

 

[thistle]

You are correct that what was said was end of time whatever that means:shrug: but my point was that the prophecies always find a way to **re-interpret **the “prophecy” so that it fits the reality.

You are right. Folks that make prophecies that never come true always have an excuse and say it didn’t actually mean that but it means this.

 

[NeedImprovement]

(lol)
It isn’t just prophecies either, we humans seem to have this knack for rearranging thought patterns to suit our tastes in a variety of ways.

Concerning any “end” at all , I do wonder from time to time , how much good knowing some or any of these things would do me if I were to get pasted by a car later today . . . or if illness were to take me away today or tomorrow.

Our Lord tells us to always be ready. Staying close to his sweet Mother through prayer is never a bad idea then. She is , after all, our Mother too.

This EWTN article Endtimes, Millennium, Rapture isn’t bad - leaves some space for speculation too . . . not sure if it covers everything though.

 

[brumano]

This is from Yahoo

There were many predictions that have not come true
Father Pio seeing the miracle, as was a priest who has also died along with Pope Paul VI. It was predicted that there would only be three popes left until the end if time. That would have been John Paul II and like the Mayan Calender the world has not ended. It was reinterpreted to mean something else. Who cares. There is many more red flags. I don’t want to break any rules and I think this thread is on the verge of doing so.

There have also been many many that have come true, to the letter. I would just have to say though that to put catholic private revellations into the same species as the mayan calender predictions of the end of the world would be totally inappropriate and illogical. How do you know that Padre Pio and Pope Paul Vl did not see these as visions but simply chose not to make that publicly known? Sometimes both sides on this debate miss the fact that some private revellations are just that, they are only for that person or persons and they are only understandable by them.

 

[adrift]

There have also been many many that have come true, to the letter.

I don’t know what you are referring to?

I would just have to say though that to put catholic private revellations into the same species as the mayan calender predictions of the end of the world would be totally inappropriate and illogical.

How so? Private Revelation when not approved is the same as any other prediction. I don’t see why it would be inappropriate or illogical to compare to false revelations.

How do you know that Padre Pio and Pope Paul Vl did not see these as visions but simply chose not to make that publicly known? Sometimes both sides on this debate miss the fact that some private Revelations are just that, they are only for that person or persons and they are only understandable by them.

This actually goes to my assertion that even when they don’t come true there will be some explanation that they actually did. Padre Pio was said to have see the miracle before he died. Such an explanation defies reality. Why would our Blessed Mother point him out as seeing the miracle where he stood when he would die three years at the end of the supposed apparitions before the said miracle took place? She did not know he would be dead? What point would there be to claiming a dead person would see the miracle. Why not say Peter and Paul would see it? Won’t all in heaven know of it? More than likely it was the “seers” who didn’t realize that he would die. It really makes the whole thing ridiculous.

 

[thistle]

There have also been many many that have come true, to the letter. I would just have to say though that to put catholic private revellations into the same species as the mayan calender predictions of the end of the world would be totally inappropriate and illogical. How do you know that Padre Pio and Pope Paul Vl did not see these as visions but simply chose not to make that publicly known? Sometimes both sides on this debate miss the fact that some private revellations are just that, they are only for that person or persons and they are only understandable by them.

The Miracle was predicted to be public for all to see and that it would be during the lifetime of Pope John Paul II and Padre Pio (i.e. they would witness it). The Miracle was not restricted to being witnessed only by them but by all. It did not happen. It was a fraudulent prediction.

 

[mlz]

Has anyone read the book by Dr. Kelly Bowring called "The Secrets, Chastisement and Triumph of the Two Hearts of Jesus and Mary? In it he puts an interesting quote from Pope Urban VIII regarding such heavenly apparitions as these saying “In cases like this, it is better to believer than not to believe, for, if you believe and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because Our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true.” (in regards to all apparitions not condemned and not in any way disagree with doctrine and Church teaching) He also wrote concerning Garabandal this " The Archbishop of Oviedo, Carlos Osoro Sierra, who is Apostolic Administrator of the region of Garabandal (Santander,Spain), said in May 2007 “I respect the apparitions and have known of authentic conversions…I encourage you to continue maintaining this devotion to our Mother.” Dr. Bowring also said in his book "Visionary Conchita was received in a private audience with Pope Paul VI, who said: “Conchita I bless you and with me the whole Church blesses you”. This is an excellent book and worthy to read. He was a speaker at our last Marian Eucharistic Conference. For information go to: www.twoheartspress.com. It has a wealth of information.

mlz

 

[BobCatholic]

I’d love to have this answered.

WHAT message at Garabandal that was not a message in approved Marian Apparitions like Lourdes and Fatima? Why the big deal about Garabandal? What is missing in the approved apparitions that one has to believe in Garabandal?

Something’s got to tickle the ears here.

 

[beehumble]

The Miracle was predicted to be public for all to see and that it would be during the lifetime of Pope John Paul II and Padre Pio (i.e. they would witness it). The Miracle was not restricted to being witnessed only by them but by all. It did not happen. It was a fraudulent prediction.

This is not correct information. It would be nice if those who feel qualified to give opinions on these things would make an effort to learn more about them before commenting, to keep the ‘noise’ level down.

God bless you.

 

[adrift]

The Miracle was predicted to be public for all to see and that it would be during the lifetime of Pope John Paul II and Padre Pio (i.e. they would witness it). The Miracle was not restricted to being witnessed only by them but by all. It did not happen. It was a fraudulent prediction.

This is not correct information. It would be nice if those who feel qualified to give opinions on these things would make an effort to learn more about them before commenting, to keep the ‘noise’ level down.

God bless you.

He made one error and that was the prediction which Pope would see it. The fact that Padre Pio is dead and the miracle has not happened is still acurate. If you can’t attack the facts, attack the person giving them.

 

[thistle]

This is not correct information. It would be nice if those who feel qualified to give opinions on these things would make an effort to learn more about them before commenting, to keep the ‘noise’ level down.

God bless you.

Both Garabandal and Medjugorie are fraudulent.
Church decisions on both have already been made and that is that there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings there.
Everyone should have the humility to accept the Church decisions.

 

[HansTrappist]

Fraudulent? That is a strong word to use. I have heard “strong” language regarding Medjugorje from the local bishop there, but to my knowledge I have never heard such language used with regard to Garabandal, at least not by the Church.

There is a huge difference between saying that an alleged apparition is established not supernatural (constat de non supernaturalitate) and saying that it is not established supernatural (non constat de supernaturalitate). Garabandal falls in the latter category. Garabandal was never established as “not supernatural”. The supernatural was “not established.” Again, big difference although a bit of a tongue twister.

Medjugorje, as I understand it, was determined to be not supernatural and was stated as such in a 1987 letter by Bishop Zanic.

 

[HansTrappist]

Both Garabandal and Medjugorie are fraudulent.
Church decisions on both have already been made and that is that there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings there.
Everyone should have the humility to accept the Church decisions.

Fraudulent? That is a strong word to use. I have heard “strong” language regarding Medjugorje from the local bishop there, but to my knowledge I have never heard such language used with regard to Garabandal, at least not by the Church.

There is a huge difference between saying that an alleged apparition is established not supernatural (constat de non supernaturalitate) and saying that it is not established supernatural (non constat de supernaturalitate). Garabandal falls in the latter category. Garabandal was never established as “not supernatural”. The supernatural was “not established.” Again, big difference although a bit of a tongue twister.

Medjugorje, as I understand it, was determined to be not supernatural and was stated as such in a 1987 letter by Bishop Zanic.