gay defense

[mkingdomlvr]

So where did the Legion of Decency go? If that was an arm of the Church, why did they fade away?

Why didn’t the Church fight the legalization of Porn? Or did they?

 

[St_Francis]

…So, yes. The Church had nothing good to say about divorce. Pope John Paul II wrote about the problems caused by that type of feminism that distorts the true meaning of the relationship between the sexes.

One other thing I need to point out. In the 1960s and early 1970s, most people, including Catholics, had a lot of respect for authority and the government. When some experts came on TV saying good things about questionable lifestyles, I think too many of us were willing to listen. It didn’t sound all that bad at first. Most of us were not looking for excuses to do immoral things. But as the 1970s turned into the 1980s, we began to notice more of our neighbors and coworkers divorcing. Hollywood began doing movies and TV shows where divorce became just ‘something that happens.’ So-called experts began putting out books with titles like How To Have a Healthy Divorce. I was confused. It was wrong. I was led to believe most of these divorces had to happen…

Yes, it would seem that there was a lot of misinformation and “spin” back then as there is now. I think that the difference is that we now recognize it for what it is; we are aware that there are people out there who are trying to re-make our society (and have succeeded in a number of areas).

There were people talking about this stuff: the popes were decrying modernism in the 1800s, for example; the problem is that some of the most heard lost a lot of legitimacy because of the McCarthy situation and because some of them pulled Jews into it and that was seen as totally wrong, esp after WW2. So people slid away from that area and relied on experts. I myself remember that in the 1960s people were saying it’s better for two people to divorce than to raise their children in an acrimonious marriage–but, hello!!! that excludes what the two people ought to do which is to *grow up *and pull themselves together. Staying with someone “for the sake of the children” was seen as stupid; feminism was telling women they could have it all and that we were all alike except for socially-imposed differences; and the government was there to help everyone pick up the pieces.

Now we look back and say, Whoa!!! That was a big mistake! The experts were not telling the truth; people gave bad arguments; we opened the door to a lot of bad things. Our children are having sex at enormous rates; the rate of illegitimacy is ten times what it was; abortion is not rare as it was promised to be; and our children are killing themselves at three times the rate they were back then.

Voices were raised back then, but they were drowned out by the experts and the intelligensia who scorned and mocked those who were concerned as ignorant, male, power-hungry, superstitious… we didn’t have homophobic *then. *

 

[edwest2]

Yes, it would seem that there was a lot of misinformation and “spin” back then as there is now. I think that the difference is that we now recognize it for what it is; we are aware that there are people out there who are trying to re-make our society (and have succeeded in a number of areas).

There were people talking about this stuff: the popes were decrying modernism in the 1800s, for example; the problem is that some of the most heard lost a lot of legitimacy because of the McCarthy situation and because some of them pulled Jews into it and that was seen as totally wrong, esp after WW2. So people slid away from that area and relied on experts. I myself remember that in the 1960s people were saying it’s better for two people to divorce than to raise their children in an acrimonious marriage–but, hello!!! that excludes what the two people ought to do which is to *grow up *and pull themselves together. Staying with someone “for the sake of the children” was seen as stupid; feminism was telling women they could have it all and that we were all alike except for socially-imposed differences; and the government was there to help everyone pick up the pieces.

Now we look back and say, Whoa!!! That was a big mistake! The experts were not telling the truth; people gave bad arguments; we opened the door to a lot of bad things. Our children are having sex at enormous rates; the rate of illegitimacy is ten times what it was; abortion is not rare as it was promised to be; and our children are killing themselves at three times the rate they were back then.

Voices were raised back then, but they were drowned out by the experts and the intelligensia who scorned and mocked those who were concerned as ignorant, male, power-hungry, superstitious… we didn’t have homophobic *then. *

I want to love and respect people, but the Church recognized those people who told falsehoods boldly. The Hippies and radicals were bold about tearing everything down. And everything they wanted in the 1960s came to pass.

Free love! Sex with anyone.

Smoke dope! They are still trying to legalize marijuana today.

“I don’t need no piece of paper to live with my old lady.” I heard that from a Hippie friend of mine.

He also told me that two people who fornicate were committing “natural acts.”

Once again, the “sexual revolution” was about sex. Topless go-go bars. It’s legal so it must be OK.

Yes, too many of us thought the wrong things, listened to the wrong people and did some things wrong. Is the media, today, talking about the epidemic of STDs among teenagers? Rarely.

When sex became separated from true, committed love, families were torn apart. Too many young people aren’t getting married because they saw their parents get divorced. I meet way too many people who have 2 or 3 divorces under their belt. The quickest way to be poor in this country is by being a single mother.

And now, another group wants something else to be legal that is against natural law.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

So where did the Legion of Decency go? If that was an arm of the Church, why did they fade away?

Why didn’t the Church fight the legalization of Porn? Or did they?

The Legion was being bombarded by Hollywood, artists and intellectuals. All I heard through the late 1960s and 70s was you can’t censor anything. You need to show everything. And all Hollywood did over the last 40 years was push the envelope, break down barriers and destroy taboos based on common decency. Even comic books had to have a Comics Code Authority in the 1950s and 1960s. By the 1970s, that was fading away too.

The push was on to stop censorship of any kind. Lawyers were employed by the porn industry. Experts and intellectuals argued that you can’t even define pornography. Even today, a few radicals offer the nonsense argument that internet content should not be filtered because ‘what if I wanted to look up something about breast cancer and I couldn’t find it?’

A lot of money was spent in courts to get the ‘freedom’ to put porn everywhere.

The Legion of Decency was absorbed into the Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Peace,
Ed

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The Legion was being bombarded by Hollywood, artists and intellectuals. All I heard through the late 1960s and 70s was you can’t censor anything. You need to show everything. And all Hollywood did over the last 40 years was push the envelope, break down barriers and destroy taboos based on common decency. Even comic books had to have a Comics Code Authority in the 1950s and 1960s. By the 1970s, that was fading away too.

The push was on to stop censorship of any kind. Lawyers were employed by the porn industry. Experts and intellectuals argued that you can’t even define pornography. Even today, a few radicals offer the nonsense argument that internet content should not be filtered because ‘what if I wanted to look up something about breast cancer and I couldn’t find it?’

A lot of money was spent in courts to get the ‘freedom’ to put porn everywhere.

The Legion of Decency was absorbed into the Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Peace,
Ed

I wouldn’t think that the courts would be able to stop a Church organization from speaking their mind.

Frankly, I don’t really believe in censorship either. I am responsible to choose what is right and wrong for myself. I can see how a Legion of Decency would be helpful to Catholics in making those choices though.

 

[edwest2]

I wouldn’t think that the courts would be able to stop a Church organization from speaking their mind.

Frankly, I don’t really believe in censorship either. I am responsible to choose what is right and wrong for myself. I can see how a Legion of Decency would be helpful to Catholics in making those choices though.

Why don’t you believe in censorship? From 1933 to 1973, the Legion published a list of movies, some of which were condemned. It was considered a sin to see them.

What the courts did was give pornographers the ability to put various types of pornography in gas stations and supermarkets. The issue being discussed here is being pushed through by the courts even though Church organizations have spoken up about it.

Peace,
Ed

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Why don’t you believe in censorship? From 1933 to 1973, the Legion published a list of movies, some of which were condemned. It was considered a sin to see them.

What the courts did was give pornographers the ability to put various types of pornography in gas stations and supermarkets. The issue being discussed here is being pushed through by the courts even though Church organizations have spoken up about it.

Peace,
Ed

Because I believe in Free Speech, even if the speech in question is offensive. I also believe in the channel changer, the off button and keeping my $$ in my wallet.

I am my own censor, I am responsible to know what is right and to choose to do it. I believe that all the Catholic education and the foundation of faith I received as a child was preparation to do that.

At the time the movie list you refer to ended, the only movies I was going to see were Disney films, and my parents were my censors. As an adult, I read the reviews and the information available to me, and make the best decision I can. Our diocesan paper back in NJ used to print capsuled movie descriptions that were very helpful.

 

[j2c99]

If one is inclined to homosexual behavior, then one should remain chaste in actions. The same applies to the heterosexual with premarital sexual relations… remain chaste. I’m a college guy and not so old fuddy duddy, so please remember this is not me oppressing you. I’m trying to help you towards salvation.

The part that all gays will never agree with is Natural Law, which is not even Church doctrine, but the law that is inherent in all humans since the beginning of time. The natural partner for a male is a female, in ALL species. It sounds like the same tired out boring argument that homosexuals don’t want to hear, but is it not their fault for not thinking logically? Logically, a male and female make offspring. Not same sex partners of any specie. Loving and caring actions, if you want to make them toward other homosexuals, can happen but must be removed from a physical pleasure sexual environment because it is not procreative, just as much as premarital sex (most times with contraception in use as well) is wrong and masturbation is wrong. Both are not open to life in the marriage method prescribed by God.

I WILL pray for you, OP, because I do in fact love you as I would love any other brother/sister in Christ. We are all God’s children, whether we want to accept it or not. Thinking God doesn’t exist doesn’t make that happen.

 

[GeorgeSword]

To say that it is okay would be something done out of spite. Scripture clearly tells us it is not, and so if we care anything about gays we must tell them the truth.

 

[edwest2]

Good point. Homosexual activity is no different that other sexual sins; no better and no worse. I do agree that many Christians place an inordinate emphasis on the sin of homosexual activity. However, this may be due to the fact “gay rights” advocates more vociferous than adultery-rights groups. The bottom line is that Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and most other religions and cultural tradiciones view sexual activity only acceptable within bonds of marriage. I realize there some caveats to my statement, but they are minor.

“inordinate emphasis”? How long has the gay marriage issue been around? Honestly. When people post here that they can’t understand why Catholics should emphasize this, aren’t they paying attention to all of the activity promoting gay marriage going on right now? Come on, people.

On another note. I dated a bisexual young lady who gave herself to Christ. I am certain no one could tell when we went to Church.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site.

I should just say this before anything else, it’s because of politics.

Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

Welcome to the forum. First of all, if anyone has treated you with hatred, that is wrong. If a parent throws their child out for being gay, that is wrong.

You have to understand why, for instance, that priest said “I’ll pray for you”. It’s not because gays aren’t people, that they don’t deserve understanding or that they shouldn’t get any compassion, no, it’s the opposite. The priest would hear what your friend said and realise your friend’s soul was in danger, because urges like that can be difficult to resist. That priest and I want as many people as possible, including you and your friend, to have eternal life. He was praying for your friend not in spite of compassion, but because of compassion.

If we didn’t preach the catholic church’s official teaching on this, we wouldn’t be helping anyone, we’d be letting them lose their soul without saying a word. Nothing can be crueler than that. For instance, I have a problem with pride. If everyone said it was fine and let me go being excessively prideful, that wouldn’t be much of a help to me at all. Them praying for me and teaching me is a service I can’t ever repay.

 

[vmalocha]

So you are saying that the church and those that represent the church and the members of the church should ACCEPT something that God has revealed to be displeasing to Him?

Please explain how that would work?

:tiphat: I completely agree. And the response that was given to you was totally expected. My problem is that someone is posting about how we should tolerate their views but they cannot tolerate your response or opinion. That is just horrible. Why did you even post biandblessed?! I do love my brother and I do love you because that is what God wants. However I feel you are provocing a situation that is unfair. The liberal view is always ok to talk about however when it comes to a conservative view we have to eat our words. IF YOU POST THEN ACCEPT THE RESPONSE OR REFRAIN FROM POSTING. THIS IS A FORUM!!!

 

[captainmike]

I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. It seems that here, and in some parishes, homosexual issues get a lot more discussion than other sins.

completely disagree with this. don’t recall ever hearing a sermon in which homosexuality was mentioned. the reason it’s mentioned here is because people who claim to be gay keep bringing it up. only reason the vatican has to mention it from time to time is because leftists keep trying to impose gay marriage on a nation that does not want it.

 

[YipYupYep]

Completely disagree with this. Don’t recall ever hearing a sermon in which homosexuality was mentioned. The reason it’s mentioned here is because people who claim to be gay keep bringing it up. Only reason the Vatican has to mention it from time to time is because leftists keep trying to impose gay marriage on a nation that does not want it.

I think your right on with than. Very true

 

[vmalocha]

completely disagree with this. don’t recall ever hearing a sermon in which homosexuality was mentioned. the reason it’s mentioned here is because people who claim to be gay keep bringing it up. only reason the vatican has to mention it from time to time is because leftists keep trying to impose gay marriage on a nation that does not want it.

I absolutely agree. From monks from St. Meinrad Indiana to Parish priest, the only comment that is ever said is not to judge and to remember they are your brother or sister and to love them. The homesexual commits are from my personal views.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Lately I have been wondering why the gay issue seems to be such a big topic on this site. Coming out is one of the hardest things to do. You start to wonder what will happen to the friendships you have made, will people look at you differently, will they even talk to you anymore? If you still live at home are you going to be kicked out because of traditionalist parents that think your way of living is sinful? Is your mother going to cry because she somehow ‘messed up’ raising you? What about your siblings? Your younger brother that always looked up to you, is he going to hate you when he understands?
your mind starts swirling with all of these questions before you have even told anyone.
Just when you feel sick to your stomach and you need a place to go a place that understands, a place where you feel welcome anytime, anyday, a place that can provide a bit of comfort when all else fails. You go to chruch. You wish to seek some sort of comfort but even the church fails you.

I know the Catholic stance on homosexuality please don’t recite it. We are people too. I had a friend in college that when to a church seeking some understanding, some compassion from the one place that she always felt welcome. The priest listened, gave her a lecture about homosexuality and said “I’ll pray for you”. That is when she lost her faith.

We are not looking to be prayed for, just understood and accepted.
I don’t go to church anymore because I don’t feel welcome. Nobody at my church knows of my sexuality but I feel out of place, like a daisy among tulips. So please, before you go on long rants about grave sins and start quoteing things your the ones that make me feel unwelcome. I’m not trying to be mean, honestly, I don’t want to offend but some of the comments I read make me a bit uneasy about every attending church again.

I’m an unmarried heterosexual male catholic. I find myself celibate largely indeed exclusively because the Church disapproves of sex outside marriage. I don’t expect the Church to tell me its OK to have carnal knowledge of women I desire…and believe me I DO desire.

You may be surprised to learnwe ALL want things we canot have. Quite frankly my frined a bit less self pity and a bit more acceptance that we are called carry crosses at times would benefit both you and I and all of us.

 

[Christopher68]

Because I believe in Free Speech, even if the speech in question is offensive. I also believe in the channel changer, the off button and keeping my $$ in my wallet.

I am my own censor, I am responsible to know what is right and to choose to do it. I believe that all the Catholic education and the foundation of faith I received as a child was preparation to do that.

My thoughts as well.