Gay Marriage and Freedom of Religion

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NoMoreGames

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To start of, I’m not being sarcastic. That being said, are those who are against gay marriage also against the freedom of religion? I don’t like how the emails this site sends out places it in the same category as things like abortion, and euthanasia. Those two violate human life, which is universal to all humans. Gay marriage, on the other hand, does not take away life nor limit the rights of others. I’m curious as to why people believe that gay marriage should not be allowed in the country when it falls more so under the category of freedom of religion. 🤷
 
Because gay marriage is NOT life-creating, nor is it life-giving. It’s an affront to the Natural Law. It fits in with abortion and euthenasia…these are all actions towards the culture of death.
 
Tonks40 said:
Because gay marriage is NOT life-creating, nor is it life-giving. It’s an affront to the Natural Law. It fits in with abortion and euthenasia…these are all actions towards the culture of death.
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LOL. No where near the amount of death those Catholics caused in the Inquisition. BTW, Hitler was a Catholic. Just thought I would let you know about that.
 
Tonks40 said:
Because gay marriage is NOT life-creating, nor is it life-giving. It’s an affront to the Natural Law. It fits in with abortion and euthenasia…these are all actions towards the culture of death.
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Maybe under the Catholic view, those are what marriage is, but to some one of a different faith, or no faith at all (as protected by the Bill of Rights) those may not be crucial ingredients. If Muslims overtook the united states and demanded prayer to Allah at all the proper hours, you would be upset, right? Well in this case, those against allowing gay marriage in a legal aspect, not religious, are the Muslims from the example (nothing against Muslims, just the first example that came to mind)

As far as being against the natural law, what are non organic drugs, or machines that keep people breathing after their brains have stop functioning? Everything has to be brought into perspective.

And dkdempsey, if you’re going to be sarcastic and rude, please refrain from speaking. I’m looking for an honest debate.
 
dkdempsey said:
LOL. No where near the amount of death those Catholics caused in the Inquisition. BTW, Hitler was a Catholic. Just thought I would let you know about that.
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You are misguided about the Inquisition. JPII had a team of historians investigate Vatican archives and other records to determine what actually happened during the Inquisition.

It was instituted by the Church to **stop **the execution and torture of heretics by state authorities who viewed heretics as a disruption to peace. There are records of prisoners who would speak blasphemies so that they could be tried in the Inquisition instead of state courts. There were a few rogue priests operating outside of the authority of the Church however they are not reflective of the Inquisition as instituted and maintained by the Church but rather the Spanish Inquisition which was hi-jacked by the Spanish government.

The wild stories about things that happened during the Inquisition were mostly propaganda by anti-Catholic and anti-Spanish protestants.

And so what if Hitler was a baptized Catholic? Obviously he was deranged and completely separated from the Church. In NO way was he reflective of the Church. That point means absolutely nothing.
 
NoMoreGames said:
To start of, I’m not being sarcastic. That being said, are those who are against gay marriage also against the freedom of religion? I don’t like how the emails this site sends out places it in the same category as things like abortion, and euthanasia. Those two violate human life, which is universal to all humans. Gay marriage, on the other hand, does not take away life nor limit the rights of others. I’m curious as to why people believe that gay marriage should not be allowed in the country when it falls more so under the category of freedom of religion. 🤷
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This is in no way a comprehensive answer but I wanted to point out that marriage in general is a societal institution and as such has a tremendous effect on society. It is the fundamental building block of society. To allow homosexual marriage is to allow an alteration to that fundamental structure, to introduce immorality into the foundation of society. It contradicts the nature of marriage and hence contradicts and breaks down the building blocks of society.

Homosexual marriages are not rooted in life-giving and life-long relationships, they are not rooted in the family. They are strictly a dysfunctional means of seeking pleasure and rarely long-lasting. To build one’s society on this is very dangerous… we already know the terrible effects of broken homes on children. Further, the primary place of education for children is the family and with children growing up in and around dysfunctional relationships we’ll certainly a see an increasing trend of dysfunction and broken relationships.

The homosexual lifestyle, while being immoral, is not what is in question… a person is free to pursue the lifestyle (though not encouraged). It is altering this foundation that is in question.

Hope that helps… much more could be said about the slow (and sometimes fast) erosion of freedom of religion for Catholics…
 
I might add that of very high concern is the ease of divorce in society (the no-fault laws)… with divorce being so widely accepted as a right, it makes it very hard to defend traditional marriage. Marriage really has lost meaning in society… 😦
 
Hate to break it to you, but there is no such thing as a homosexual “lifestyle”, nor is there such a thing as a bisexual or lesbian or heterosexual “lifestyle”. People are so varied individually, that there are many lifestyles. Gay people are just as diverse among themselves as compared to many other groups of people.
 
But it’s the catholic position that homosexuality is immoral, not society. All of your arguments to prevent it in this country are still religious, no matter how much you try to make it seem like they are not. It might crumble your perception of society, but not necessarily society itself, since that society is based, in part, on freedom.

And to say that gay marriages are not rooted in family and are therefore chiefly for pleasure is a rash generalization. Gay couples can be long term just like any others.
 
dkdempsey said:
LOL. No where near the amount of death those Catholics caused in the Inquisition. BTW, Hitler was a Catholic. Just thought I would let you know about that.
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And so are you, by virtue of your Baptism, and so was Mother Theresa.

What’s your point?
 
Just ignore the post about the inquisition and hitler, it has nothing to do with the topic.
 
PaulinVA said:
And so are you, by virtue of your Baptism, and so was Mother Theresa.

What’s your point?
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I hope you’re not trying to ruffle my feathers, especially now that I’ve calmed down a bit in the last 10 minutes
 
NoMoreGames said:
But it’s the catholic position that homosexuality is immoral, not society. All of your arguments to prevent it in this country are still religious, no matter how much you try to make it seem like they are not. It might crumble your perception of society, but not necessarily society itself, since that society is based, in part, on freedom.

And to say that gay marriages are not rooted in family and are therefore chiefly for pleasure is a rash generalization. Gay couples can be long term just like any others.
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Well, reality exists independent of what people think and sanity is seeing reality as it is. It either is or isn’t… someone is right and someone is wrong. If we are to have any discussion about any issue, this has to be accepted and if you believe something to be wrong, it’d be insane by definition to support it. There’s nothing wrong with Catholics supporting what they know as truth even if other people disagree… we have freedom of religion too. We know from our religion that homosexuality is wrong based on the end of sexuality, so we don’t support is, much less condone it becoming the foundation of society.

I’ll try, however, to look at this from a natural point of view.

Humans are by nature ordered toward heterosexual relationships. One has only to look physically at the male and female to see this. There may be people born with attractions to the same sex, but still this goes against the physical, natural order as we can easily observe. Heterosexual relationships are capable of carrying on humanity, they are part of the nature of humanity. The complementarity of the sexes is not a religious idea, although it ties in. It is strictly science and human observations.

Marriage is by nature ordered toward providing a stable, life-long and exclusive relationship for carrying on humanity and raising children. This has been shown throughout history and in modern society to be the best way to continue the human race.

While there may be some (and I’d wager a very few) long-term homosexual relationships, the vast majority are not stable (which studies have shown). They certainly can’t be procreative and so must then be for pleasure. Recognizing this sort of “marriage” as a perfectly acceptable unit of society is not conducive to a healthy and well-functioning society.
 
Paladin_V said:
Humans are by nature ordered toward heterosexual relationships. One has only to look physically at the male and female to see this. There may be people born with attractions to the same sex, but still this goes against the physical, natural order as we can easily observe. Heterosexual relationships are capable of carrying on humanity, they are part of the nature of humanity. The complementarity of the sexes is not a religious idea, although it ties in. It is strictly science and human observations…
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Well most humans are naturally ordered to heterosexual relationships. Clearly not all.

And if people are BORN with attractions to the same sex then that is obviously naturaly to them

Yes, they may be complimentary, but this doesn’t account for the fact that non-heterosexuality occurs in several species of the animal kingdom. This also ties in with science and human observations.

The whole world is not going to go gay just because gays and lesbians might marry.
 
dkdempsey said:
And if people are BORN with attractions to the same sex then that is obviously naturaly to them
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This is strange. When a person is born blind is that “natural” to them? Does that mean blindness is how humans were intended to be? Do we understand blindness to be something to be celebrated or treated for correction?
 
fix said:
This is strange. When a person is born blind is that “natural” to them? Does that mean blindness is how humans were intended to be? Do we understand blindness to be something to be celebrated or treated for correction?
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No. Instead we light a candle, say a few Hail Mary’s then ban blind people from getting married.
 
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