Gay Marriage and the End of Christian Civilization

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RCconvert7 said:
The Republican Party will not save Catholic values. They are pro-war, anti-worker, and pro-capitalist. They would like to see unemployment benefits cut off to those in need. There are no jobs out there for these people to get, and tax cuts to the wealthy will not fix that situation. My company is cutting my labor budget while simultaneously increasing stock dividends for shareholders… These are the values that the Republican Party represents. And fiscal conservative interests are growing in the RNC to the detriment of social conservatism. I am anti-abortion, but I am also anti-war, pro-compassion for the poor, and pro-universal healthcare. There is no political party that can “save” Catholic values.
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The Church is also pro-war. So am I when war is the only way.

The GOP is NOT anti-worker, the exact opposite actually, the dems are.

You bet the GOP is pro-capitalist…so am I.

The do not want umemployment benefits cuts for those in need…that is a lie.

The dems hurt the poor, more than help them.

The GOP stands for: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!
 
Los_Angeles said:
That’s a pretty broad brushstroke to say that an entire party is better at lying. This about voting in line with Catholic beliefs, some of which are non-negotiable.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
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yeah, there is no party that will match a religious doctrine. Not in this country. Or not one, anyway, that has a chance of winning anything major.
 
Guantanamo Bay, the Patriot Act, Gay Military Service, Gay Marriage?

All of these deprive either liberties, and the pursuit of happiness.

I mean, I have voted Republican, but they are certainly not the party of American values as they would have us believe.:rolleyes:
 
wisdomseeker said:
I agree with you. plus RNC are no better conservatives than democrats. they just lie better. besides we know the republicans were who got us in this mess. why would we want them back? just find a faithfull Catholic to run for the president.
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Sorry to spoil it… but a “faithful Catholic running for President” is not the answer to anything. First of all, he or she will never be elected by the people.
 
AnimalGal said:
Sorry to spoil it… but a “faithful Catholic running for President” is not the answer to anything. First of all, he or she will never be elected by the people.
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no, the answer is everybody to surrender to the Catholic Church and her teachings. just like before. to much confusion today because we dont have one Faith. as long as people think they dont need the Church, we will be in trouble.
 
Los_Angeles said:
You rasie some valid points, except that abortion is a non-negotiable for Catholic voters. Catholics are not supposed to knowingly vote for a pro-abortion candidate.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
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Most Catholics reject(ed) the idea that not voting for Sarah Palin is sinful.
While Authoritarianism is that Black and White, the Church is more complex, despite some of its people.
 
Phil_Stone said:
Most Catholics reject(ed) the idea that not voting for Sarah Palin is sinful.
While Authoritarianism is that Black and White, the Church is more complex, despite some of its people.
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Not quite accurate. Abortion is an absolute issue. One cannot knowingly advance the cause of abortion without commiting sin.

If a Catholic chose not to vote for Palin, that is not a sin in any way.
 
Kevin42 said:
Guantanamo Bay, the Patriot Act, Gay Military Service, Gay Marriage?

All of these deprive either liberties, and the pursuit of happiness.

I mean, I have voted Republican, but they are certainly not the party of American values as they would have us believe.:rolleyes:
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Gitmo detainees are not Americans.

Name one thing you did before the Patriot Act that you cannot do today (just one).

Gays can serve in the military.

Gays have the same right to marry that straights have.

The GOP is all about: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Yet if you think that comes without rules, than think again…there are always rules.

On the other hand, the left is for: Death, the destruction of the family and the destruction of faith and churches as we know them.

Further: the GOP believes in smaller government, less taxes and a strong military. While the left believes in expanding government, expanding taxes, they hate private business and they hate the military and the notion that USA needs to be strong.
 
I am curious, why your user name?
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I will answer you by private post. 🙂

I hereby resign from this thread. For my purposes, it’s all been said and circled 'round and hashed over pretty well. Such passion on both sides! This is a terrifically important issue, to be sure, and what Father Benedict Groschel said in response to an abortion proponent during a front-lines protest clash applies here. (Paraphrasing: ) “One thing I think we both can agree on, and that’s this: we both care very deeply about this issue.”

See you elsewhere in the forums.
 
irishpatrick said:
Gitmo detainees are not Americans.

Name one thing you did before the Patriot Act that you cannot do today (just one).

Gays can serve in the military.

Gays have the same right to marry that straights have.

The GOP is all about: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Yet if you think that comes without rules, than think again…there are always rules.

On the other hand, the left is for: Death, the destruction of the family and the destruction of faith and churches as we know them.

Further: the GOP believes in smaller government, less taxes and a strong military. While the left believes in expanding government, expanding taxes, they hate private business and they hate the military and the notion that USA needs to be strong.
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  1. Funny, I didn’t realize it was ok to deprive liberty to non-Americans. Seems awfully unjust and therefore anti-Christian.
  2. The Patriot Act is an obstacle to liberty and is unacceptable, even if it does not effect me.
  3. Unless someone finds out they are gay, in which case decorated heroes can be discharged.
  4. As I have said multiple times, I am surprised Catholics would espouse marriages that would lack sex and proper intimacy. I would never do a woman the harm that would come by pursuing a marriage lacking in sex and intimacy, but I am surprised you would recommend such a thing.
I find it interesting that you actually believe that Republicans are good and Democrats are evil. Such black and white views of the world would seem foolish to many people who have any kind of scholarly knowledge of history. Almost as foolish as claiming that Republicans are for small government after what just happened under Republican control.
 
Kevin42 said:
  1. Funny, I didn’t realize it was ok to deprive liberty to non-Americans. Seems awfully unjust and therefore anti-Christian.
==> Not at all. The system in the USA is intended for citizens of the USA. The Church teaches every country has a right to define its own rules and maintain its own sovreingty.
  1. The Patriot Act is an obstacle to liberty and is unacceptable, even if it does not effect me.
==> You could not even name one thing. It is a myth that the PA takes away liberty.
  1. Unless someone finds out they are gay, in which case decorated heroes can be discharged.
==> Don’t ask and don’t tell. Nothing immoral with that. Men that are attracted only to men do not belong serving with men. Simple logic that escapes many. We would not have women bunking with men in the military.
  1. As I have said multiple times, I am surprised Catholics would espouse marriages that would lack sex and proper intimacy. I would never do a woman the harm that would come by pursuing a marriage lacking in sex and intimacy, but I am surprised you would recommend such a thing.
==> I have no clue what this means?

I find it interesting that you actually believe that Republicans are good and Democrats are evil. Such black and white views of the world would seem foolish to many people who have any kind of scholarly knowledge of history. Almost as foolish as claiming that Republicans are for small government after what just happened under Republican control.
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**==> I do not think Republicans are perfect, nor do I think that Democrats are all evil. I do believe that the Republican platform is mainly good, and the Democratic platform is mainly evil. We choose between two imperfect groups, one has a mainly good platform, one has a mainly evil platform…personally I feel the world would be far better off if everyone tried to choose the mainly good side of life, rather than the mainly evil side of life. **

People who formed this nation wanted a very small government, small to no taxation, a complete right to freely live their lives in pursuit of happiness and to practice their faith throughout their lives without any restrictions from the state. All of that has changed today thanks to the left. The Republicans simply want to restore and maintain the basic foundations and principles upon which this nation was founded. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Lincoln once said that the USA was the last best hope of the world. I fear, thanks to the left, that the last best hope is on the verge of dying because the left truly does not know what it is doing. The left wants equality in result in all things and all people, no matter the cost to our freedoms. The right wants liberty for all people, period. This nation cannot have equality for all and liberty for all…it is impossible to have both, so we are forced to choose. I choose liberty, thank you very much…the very liberty that God gives every person.

Thanks for the chat. Have a good night. 🙂
 
Los_Angeles said:
Sorry I disagree.

The problem IS homosexual “marriage”.

From my understanding, it is both an abomination to the Lord and quite simply, illogical from from a logical standpoint.

ALL homosexual couples can produce 0 children. ALL homosexual couples need to rely on heterosexual couples for children.

The people of California had enough reason, sense, and respect for marriage to vote YES on Prop 8.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
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Don’t get me wrong. I am vehemently against same sex marriage. I just don’t see it as The cause of the moral decline of society. I was simply addressing the root issue. If we never solve this problem with the disrespect of marriage, then we will keep having this issue with same sex marriages. With 2-3% of the population with same sex attractions, it is obvious that most of the support comes from straight people. How would same sex marriage even be considered if people really had an appreciation for marriage.
 
Great Article!
God Bless!
Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn

Click Here ZENIT: Same-Sex Marriage Battle

…Political

Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association, accused Judge Walker of making a political statement in his decision. Writing in the opinion pages of the Aug. 13 edition of the Los Angeles Times, Wildmon referred to the argument that marriage being restricted to heterosexuals is similar to the ban in the past on persons of different races being able to marry.

In reply to this, Wildmon quoted an undated statement by Colin L. Powell, who said: “Skin color is a benign, nonbehavioral characteristic. Sexual orientation is perhaps the most profound of human behavioral characteristics. Comparison of the two is a convenient but invalid argument.”

Regarding Judge Walker’s affirmation that opposition to same-sex marriage is only based on religious or moral considerations, Wildmon argued that this is clearly a case of a judge imposing mere personal opinions. This is a clear case of judicial tyranny, something that the founding fathers had warned against…

…Reasonable arguments

Muehlenberg, secretary of the Family Council of Victoria, set forth a series of reasons, none of them based on religious grounds.
  1. It negates what marriage is. Marriage is not just a social construct, but a cultural universal. Marriage is the basis for family formation and is not simply a way of legitimizing sex. Evolutionary biologists acknowledge that male-female bonding in lasting pairs was the critical step in human evolution and is something built into us by nature.
  2. The percentage of homosexuals who want to marry is very small and in places where it has already been legalized there have been relatively few same-sex marriages. It has been legal in the Netherlands since 2001 and only about 4% of homosexuals married during the first five years after legalization.
  3. There is another agenda here. A fundamental goal of the homosexual lobby is the complete social and public endorsement of them. Being able to marry is like having a stamp of approval from governments and society. It also changes the institution of the family and essentially redefines marriage out of existence.
  4. Not all relationships are alike. Homosexual relationships are much more unstable and promiscuous than heterosexual ones. Research has also found that among married homosexual couples the rate of divorce is much higher than for heterosexual couples.
  5. Claims of discrimination and denial of rights are spurious. People are entitled to the benefits of marriage if they meet the requirements. Just as family members and minors cannot marry, so too homosexuals cannot. Social goods are denied to all sorts of people and that is how life operates. Societies discriminate in favor of heterosexual unions because of the social good derived from them. Homosexuals are seeking to re-write the rules to get all the benefits, while avoiding the obligations.
  6. The arguments used to justify legal same-sex marriage could be used to legalize incest, polygamy or any number of sexual combinations.
  7. It is not good for children. In most cases a child will do better with a mother and a father. As well children need role models as they are growing up. Children should be given priority, and not used as political footballs.
These arguments, amply documented in the book, show clearly just how wrong-headed was Judge Walker’s decision.
 
DawnInTexas said:
  1. Claims of discrimination and denial of rights are spurious. People are entitled to the benefits of marriage if they meet the requirements. Just as family members and minors cannot marry, so too homosexuals cannot. Social goods are denied to all sorts of people and that is how life operates. Societies discriminate in favor of heterosexual unions because of the social good derived from them. Homosexuals are seeking to re-write the rules to get all the benefits, while avoiding the obligations.
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The court case addressed these issues. If you read the ruling, you will see how they failed to justify the exclusion based on gender alone.
  1. It is not good for children.
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This is demonstrably false. The case addressed this. There was no evidence presented that should that children in gay households are harmed, any more than children on hetero households suffer problems the same way. That children in single households overall fare worse in some social indicators does not mean that single-parenthood CAUSES these things, nor is it a reason IN LAW that heteros are prevented from divorcing or that single persons are prevented from having children. In other words, it is no basis in law for denying persons the right to parent nor to marry nor to divorce. It is legally irrelevant.
These arguments, amply documented in the book, show clearly just how wrong-headed was Judge Walker’s decision.
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The defendants presented no evidence of harm from gay marriage in the court case.
 
larkin31 said:
The court case addressed these issues. If you read the ruling, you will see how they failed to justify the exclusion based on gender alone.

This is demonstrably false. The case addressed this. There was no evidence presented that should that children in gay households are harmed, any more than children on hetero households suffer problems the same way. That children in single households overall fare worse in some social indicators does not mean that single-parenthood CAUSES these things, nor is it a reason IN LAW that heteros are prevented from divorcing or that single persons are prevented from having children. In other words, it is no basis in law for denying persons the right to parent nor to marry nor to divorce. It is legally irrelevant.

The defendants presented no evidence of harm from gay marriage in the court case.
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A homosexual judge with an agenda is hardly a sound resource. He really should have recused himself from the case because his emotional attachment to the case was entirely too high.

There is ZERO doubt that children fare better with a mother and father, than they do with any other arrangement. Fact.
 
larkin31 said:
… This is demonstrably false. The case addressed this. There was no evidence presented that should that children in gay households are harmed, any more than children on hetero households suffer problems the same way. That children in single households overall fare worse in some social indicators does not mean that single-parenthood CAUSES these things, nor is it a reason IN LAW that heteros are prevented from divorcing or that single persons are prevented from having children. In other words, it is no basis in law for denying persons the right to parent nor to marry nor to divorce. It is legally irrelevant. …
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Obviously, you aren’t married with children.

It doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to know that men and women are different. In our household, my husband is the breadwinner. I am the homemaker. I also am the disciplinarian-he gives in. We form a balance in the household.

When a child hurts themself, they run to me. I am the nurturer. No man, even my husband will ever feel what I do for my children, I carried them within my body for 9 months.

God is so good. He made us different-to balance each other out. I am the emotional one-my husband, the Rock.

God created man-put him to sleep, removed a rib and created woman from man. Saw that it was good, and rested.

God Bless the Family.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
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