Gay Marriage Debate

[Rau]

I am a cradle Catholic and I was raised with a much more loving God to all his children.

Shelby, is there a Church teaching that you have in mind that, when you were raised reflected a loving God, but now reflects a less loving God? What teaching(s) has/have changed in this way?

 

[frobert]

I believe there is one God, who dwelled among us and established a Church and gave it teaching authority. I find it hard to conceive of how I (or any person who wishes to be identified as Catholic) could hold a belief about that God which is at odds with the teaching of His Church. It would seem untenable for a Catholic to view the Catholic Church as providing just one of many equally valid perspectives on God. Of course, it is entirely reasonable for others to hold exactly that view.

Then we are in agreement. Shelby sun told us she was a cradle Catholic which I took is the same as me saying I was a birth Catholic. Our perspective and beliefs are identical in many ways but differ in some ways.

 

[Nacho45]

If there is one God then no matter what name we give to that God we are speaking about the same God. It is only our human perspective of that God that differs.

Some of our Christian teachings were influenced by pagan philosophers, does that boost or hinder your belief in a Christian God or does it have any effect at all?

There is one God. There are many gods. Confusing God with a false god will create many problems with understanding proper theology. I imagine when people start altering what God has revealed into something He did not reveal, they stop worshiping God and being to worship a false idea of God, which is not the same thing.

 

[frobert]

There is one God. There are many gods. Confusing God with a false god will create many problems with understanding proper theology. I imagine when people start altering what God has revealed into something He did not reveal, they stop worshiping God and being to worship a false idea of God, which is not the same thing.

It’s a matter of perspective. I believe that when Epicurus, a 2nd century pagan, spoke of his devotion to Zeus he was speaking about the true God that he knew from his ability to reason. I believe that Rumi, a 13th century mystic, speaks to the true God in his religious poetry. Today, as in times past, we have many false gods such as the secular gods of: consumerism, might and power, prejudice, some economic theories, greed, etc. One reasons these false gods through the filter of their desires.

 

[shelby_sun]

Shelby, is there a Church teaching that you have in mind that, when you were raised reflected a loving God, but now reflects a less loving God? What teaching(s) has/have changed in this way?

It is all about what one focuses on in the Bible. Some focus on damnation and some on forgiveness.

 

[Rau]

It is all about what one focuses on in the Bible. Some focus on damnation and some on forgiveness.

But that is about individuals. You seemed to be referring to a change in the Church in the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby sun
…I believe God is much bigger than the Catholic Church. I am a cradle Catholic and I was raised with a much more loving God to all his children.

 

[Nacho45]

It’s a matter of perspective.

Only when avoiding reality.

I believe that when Epicurus, a 2nd century pagan, spoke of his devotion to Zeus he was speaking about the true God that he knew from his ability to reason. I believe that Rumi, a 13th century mystic, speaks to the true God in his religious poetry.

You are free to believe anything, as well as they were, but pagans were and are devoted to false gods, not God. Historically, there is a clear and significant difference. This is evident even between Christianity and Islam.

 

[ashtonh2001]

Someone said something about natural law. Homosexuality has been observed extensively by 4oo plus species and has had cases in over 2000.

 

[Rau]

Someone said something about natural law. Homosexuality has been observed extensively by 4oo plus species and has had cases in over 2000.

However, Natural Law has nothing to do with what is observed among other species.

Did you wish to draw a conclusion from the observations of other species?

 

[Nacho45]

Someone said something about natural law. Homosexuality has been observed extensively by 4oo plus species and has had cases in over 2000.

Some species kill and eat their young. Most do not mate with a single other of their species. Some monkeys throw poop at each other and I have seen some dogs eat their own poop. Comparing us to animals does no good.

 

[frobert]

Only when avoiding reality.

When you have a narrow world view you are unable to see beyond your own beliefs. You are limited by your belief system which in this case is faith based.

You are free to believe anything, as well as they were, but pagans were and are devoted to false gods, not God. Historically, there is a clear and significant difference. This is evident even between Christianity and Islam.

Pagans were devoted to God as they knew him. Why else do you think so much of pagan metaphysics made its way into Christianity? Your own religion teaches you that God looks favorably on those who are good.

 

[frobert]

Some species kill and eat their young. Most do not mate with a single other of their species. Some monkeys throw poop at each other and I have seen some dogs eat their own poop. Comparing us to animals does no good.

Comparative Biology sciences and comparative Psychology are legitimate areas of study. That homosexuality has being observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a has a purpose. The the CC can not, under any circumstances, accept this, because if they did it would blow a huge whole in the nature theories of St Thomas and others.

 

[shelby_sun]

But that is about individuals. You seemed to be referring to a change in the Church in the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelby sun
…I believe God is much bigger than the Catholic Church. I am a cradle Catholic and I was raised with a much more loving God to all his children.

It can also be parts of the world or just simply a certain parish. As I have said before I was raised in a Jesuit Parish, similar to what Pope Francis was like when he first became Pope. Now, I would assume with much guidance of those in the Holy City, he has taken a much different tone, a less forgiving one. When you look at our faith with such a close mind to God’s possibilities, it simply becomes a cult where everyone must believe exactly the same thing, for every single situation, all the time.

 

[Rau]

Comparative Biology sciences and comparative Psychology are legitimate areas of study. That homosexuality has being observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a has a purpose. The the CC can not, under any circumstances, accept this, because if they did it would blow a huge whole in the nature theories of St Thomas and others.

A purpose? Maybe, but that does not mean men should exchange semen with other men, for that plainly has no purpose. Or perhaps there is no purpose, and a whatever goes wrong in human development can also go wrong in the development of other animals.

 

[frobert]

A purpose? Maybe, but that does not mean men should exchange semen with other men, for that plainly has no purpose. Or perhaps there is no purpose, and a whatever goes wrong in human development can also go wrong in the development of other animals.

Of course you can deny that a purpose that is CC’s teaching which many Catholics concur with.

Homosexuality has been observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a purpose.

It’s suggestive, not conclusive. Can it be falsified? Give it your best shot.

 

[ashtonh2001]

Some species kill and eat their young. Most do not mate with a single other of their species. Some monkeys throw poop at each other and I have seen some dogs eat their own poop. Comparing us to animals does no good.

Well friend we are animals. I was just making a statement based on this whole natural law argument. Natural laws are universal laws of gravity physics etc. To say something goes against natural law in this sense is wrong, it may go against biblical law but homosexuality does not break any natural law.

 

[ashtonh2001]

Comparative Biology sciences and comparative Psychology are legitimate areas of study. That homosexuality has being observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a has a purpose. The the CC can not, under any circumstances, accept this, because if they did it would blow a huge whole in the nature theories of St Thomas and others.

And isnt that what it is all about, any thing that doesnt line up is said to be false or unimportant, some of you guys sound like baptists in the south denying science and rationality in favor of the writings of people from a less advanced time. This is just referring to the nature theories of Saint Thomas and others not christianity as a whole…

 

[frobert]

And isnt that what it is all about, any thing that doesnt line up is said to be false or unimportant, some of you guys sound like baptists in the south denying science and rationality in favor of the writings of people from a less advanced time. This is just referring to the nature theories of Saint Thomas and others not christianity as a whole…

I take no offense in your opinions but I have no idea on how you got that I think natural law is unimportant from what I wrote.

I mentioned nature theories, but if it is your pleasure to discuss natural law theories in detail there are other threads more appropriate to do so than this one.

 

[Rau]

Of course you can deny that a purpose that is CC’s teaching which many Catholics concur with.

Homosexuality has been observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a purpose.

It’s suggestive, not conclusive. Can it be falsified? Give it your best shot.

But I don’t deny! I just doubt it, hence I answered “maybe”. But, I’m pretty sure 2 men exchanging semen does not have a purpose. So, if homosexuality has a purpose, I’m pretty sure it is to be fulfilled through means other than this!

 

[Rau]

Well friend we are animals. I was just making a statement based on this whole natural law argument. Natural laws are universal laws of gravity physics etc. To say something goes against natural law in this sense is wrong, it may go against biblical law but homosexuality does not break any natural law.

That is not what Natural Law is about. Why don’t you Google it. It has nothing to do with “laws of nature”!