Gay Marriage Debate

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Rau said:
But I don’t deny! I just doubt it, hence I answered “maybe”. But, I’m pretty sure 2 men exchanging semen does not have a purpose. So, if homosexuality has a purpose, I’m pretty sure it is to be fulfilled through means other than this!
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I am not sure if that is a reason either. I am not interested either way. Why not Google it and find out what some of the theories are.

If you want a discussion on natural law and homosexuality follow the link It is not something I am interested in.
 
Rau said:
Nor I. Why do you raise it with me?
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To be honest I am not sure but I think it started in post #134. You responded to a former post of mine and then in another post you brought up the semen thing. Confusing isn’t it?
 
ashtonh2001 said:
Well friend we are animals. I was just making a statement based on this whole natural law argument. Natural laws are universal laws of gravity physics etc. To say something goes against natural law in this sense is wrong, it may go against biblical law but homosexuality does not break any natural law.
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I am not an animal. You are not just some animal either. Homosexuality does not fall within natural law. If you properly understood natural law, you would see why your assumption is incorrect.
 
frobert said:
Comparative Biology sciences and comparative Psychology are legitimate areas of study. That homosexuality has being observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a has a purpose. The the CC can not, under any circumstances, accept this, because if they did it would blow a huge whole in the nature theories of St Thomas and others.
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I am sure they are, when observing the fallen state of nature, but this has nothing to do with us or natural law. Homosexuality has a purpose? What is its purpose other than to build barriers between mankind and God?
 
Nacho45 said:
I am sure they are, when observing the fallen state of nature, but this has nothing to do with us or natural law. Homosexuality has a purpose? What is its purpose other than to build barriers between mankind and God?
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That is an extremely impressive observation.

Now would you believe me if I told you the purpose of homosexuality in nature? I don’t think so. So I won’t tell you, but that should not stop you from doing your own research. But I don’t think you will.
 
ashtonh2001 said:
Someone said something about natural law. Homosexuality has been observed extensively by 4oo plus species and has had cases in over 2000.
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I read on this forum or elsewhere online or on the television that sometimes cows mount other cows, which is sign that cow is coming into estrus. It does not follow that the cow is showing lesbianism. But what that be considered homosexual behaviour?

There may be other reasons that a cow would show behaviour like that towards another cow of the same gender.
There are several reasons why dogs engage in mounting behavior beyond the need for procreation. Usually, an un-neutered male dog will mount another male dog as a display of social dominance—in other words, as a way of letting the other dog know who’s boss. While not as frequent, a female dog may mount for the same reason. Less commonly, a male might mount another male because his target has been “feminized” as a result of testicular cancer or through the use of certain drugs. Not surprisingly, the smell of a female dog in heat can instigate a frenzy of mounting behaviors. Even other females who aren’t in heat will mount those who are. Males will mount males who have just been with estrus females if they still bear their scent. Estrus females may mount unwilling or inexperienced males. And males who catch wind of the estrus odor may mount the first thing (or unlucky person) they come in contact with. Interestingly enough, cats are sometimes the surprised—and unhappy—recipients of canine ardor.
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petfinder.com/dogs/dog-problems/stopping-dog-humping/

Isn’t it true that for the behaviours described above among dogs and cows could be seen as portraying homosexual behaviour because of behaviour they are portraying towards another animal of the same gender, but how can it be proven that an animal portraying a certain behaviour towards an animal of the same gender is not because of social dominance for example, but because of a more purely homosexual reason?
 
_Abyssinia said:
I read on this forum or elsewhere online or on the television that sometimes cows mount other cows, which is sign that cow is coming into estrus. It does not follow that the cow is showing lesbianism. But what that be considered homosexual behaviour?

There may be other reasons that a cow would show behaviour like that towards another cow of the same gender.

petfinder.com/dogs/dog-problems/stopping-dog-humping/

Isn’t it true that for the behaviours described above among dogs and cows could be seen as portraying homosexual behaviour because of behaviour they are portraying towards another animal of the same gender, but how can it be proven that an animal portraying a certain behaviour towards an animal of the same gender is not because of social dominance for example, but because of a more purely homosexual reason?
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If you want to take that tack, you have a monumental task of going through a fair amount of the monumental scientific literature on homosexuality in species. Things read on line, especially here on CAF can not be said to be even suggestive of falsifying homosexuality throughout species. Good luck with your task.
 
frobert said:
…Things read on line, especially here on CAF can not be said to be even suggestive of falsifying homosexuality throughout species.
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What relevance for human morality can be found in the behavior of animals?
 
If you desire to see homosexuality in base animal behavior that is your choice. When you begin to compare and equate a human with an animal there is no reasonable expectation of superior thought or behavior. When we see ourselves as apes we should not be surprised when we act accordingly. However there is a greater plan for humanity that supersedes nature and animalistic behavior. We are created in God’s image and become whole when we seek God’s will. If you have a desire for another of the same gender it is part of your will that must be conquered, just like all sin. However, as we are imperfect we will fall into sin and we must always seek to rise above. Anything else is merely an excuse to fail at being what we are supposed to be.
 
Rau said:
What relevance for human morality can be found in the behavior of animals?
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I was responding to a post that said nothing about morality. I am not sure but I think previous posts had to do with nature revelation.

You can start a thread on the morality of animal behavior if that is what you wish to discuss.
 
frobert said:
I was responding to a post that said nothing about morality. I am not sure but I think previous posts had to do with nature revelation.

You can start a thread on the morality of animal behavior if that is what you wish to discuss.
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You raised animal behavior. Obfuscate as much as you like. It speaks volumes.
 
Those of you that think that God does not make mistakes, I agree; however, just like the formation of an embryo can go wrong somewhere along the way and a baby may have no hands or a malformed heart or in the worst situations two heads, do you not think the formation of sexual formation cannot go wrong also while an embryo is forming? If that could be true, why should they not be able to live their life as a homosexual, just as a person with two heads or some lesser malformation live out their life the way they were born. Like I said before, only God knows all and understands how they can to be the way they are not any of us. Do you realized that God loving people once killed their malformed babies, whether they could survive or not.

For some, just some of the posters here, I seriously doubt you have faced such a hard strife in your life and until you have, maybe you should listen more and post less.
 
shelby_sun said:
Those of you that think that God does not make mistakes, I agree; however, just like the formation of an embryo can go wrong somewhere along the way and a baby may have no hands or a malformed heart or in the worst situations two heads, do you not think the formation of sexual formation cannot go wrong also while an embryo is forming? If that could be true, why should they not be able to live their life as a homosexual, just as a person with two heads or some lesser malformation live out their life the way they were born. Like I said before, only God knows all and understands how they can to be the way they are not any of us. Do you realized that God loving people once killed their malformed babies, whether they could survive or not.

For some, just some of the posters here, I seriously doubt you have faced such a hard strife in your life and until you have, maybe you should listen more and post less.
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A homosexual inclination is not a compulsion to engage in sex acts with another person. That desire exists, as it does, analogously, for a heterosexual person. I agree entirely that it is possible that the inclination arises at least in part as you speculate. But this does not create license to engage in genital acts.
 
shelby_sun said:
Those of you that think that God does not make mistakes, I agree; however, just like the formation of an embryo can go wrong somewhere along the way and a baby may have no hands or a malformed heart or in the worst situations two heads, do you not think the formation of sexual formation cannot go wrong also while an embryo is forming? If that could be true, why should they not be able to live their life as a homosexual, just as a person with two heads or some lesser malformation live out their life the way they were born. Like I said before, only God knows all and understands how they can to be the way they are not any of us. Do you realized that God loving people once killed their malformed babies, whether they could survive or not.

For some, just some of the posters here, I seriously doubt you have faced such a hard strife in your life and until you have, maybe you should listen more and post less.
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The analogy is indicative of your contempt and hatred for sons of God?
 
Rau said:
A homosexual inclination is not a compulsion to engage in sex acts with another person. That desire exists, as it does, analogously, for a heterosexual person. I agree entirely that it is possible that the inclination arises at least in part as you speculate. But this does not create license to engage in genital acts.
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Strange how someone can claim knowledge of things they have such distorted views of. I guess you think it is beneath you to do some research when it is easier to condemn out of hand religious teachings and beliefs of individuals, other religions and Christian denominations. My consolation is that I know from my life experiences that distorted views like yours are not held by the majority of Christians and perhaps not even by the majority of those on CAF.
 
frobert said:
Strange how someone can know claim knowledge of things they have such distorted views of. I guess you think it is beneath you to do some research instead of condemning out of hand religious teachings and beliefs of other religions and Christian denominations. My only consolation is that I know from my life experiences that distorted views like yours are not held by the majority of Christians and perhaps not even by those on CAF.
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I’ve expressed my opinions, which are in accord with those of the Catholic Church. If, in doing so, you believe I’ve expressed a distorted view, please point out the distortion. Or do you simply mean my view is not in accord with yours? 🤷
 
frobert said:
The analogy is indicative of your contempt and hatred for sons of God?
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It certainly does not, you just want to be an extremist because you are not getting everyone to believe and concede in everything you say and believe. It happens all the time on these post and only turns people off to what you have to say. By all means go ahead if that is all you have.
 
clintonm said:
If you desire to see homosexuality in base animal behavior that is your choice. When you begin to compare and equate a human with an animal there is no reasonable expectation of superior thought or behavior. When we see ourselves as apes we should not be surprised when we act accordingly. However there is a greater plan for humanity that supersedes nature and animalistic behavior. We are created in God’s image and become whole when we seek God’s will. If you have a desire for another of the same gender it is part of your will that must be conquered, just like all sin. However, as we are imperfect we will fall into sin and we must always seek to rise above. Anything else is merely an excuse to fail at being what we are supposed to be.
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My dear friend I say we are animals that does not deny a god or plan but we evolved like other primates and all organisms on earth. When we share majority DNA with Chimps (while I believe it is coded differently maybe) we cannot say we are not animals. Actually you are wrong to say that my statement would not expect better thought or behavior. Evolution caused our brain size to grow therefore allowing us sentient thought, intense emotion, the ability to empathize etc.
 
frobert said:
If you want to take that tack, you have a monumental task of going through a fair amount of the monumental scientific literature on homosexuality in species. Things read on line, especially here on CAF can not be said to be even suggestive of falsifying homosexuality throughout species. Good luck with your task.
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I have looked at some information online regarding animal behaviour and homosexuality.

I assume, and correct me if I am wrong, but that the behaviour described by cows and dogs in my previous post would be presumed to be evidence of homosexuality amongst animals, but there are reasons why they behave that way described in the previous post. The question is, is there proof of same gender attraction between animals that goes beyond any other explanation of behaviour. I am not a scientist but I don’t see how that could be proven.
 
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