Gay Marriage Debate

[clintonm]

My dear friend I say we are animals that does not deny a god or plan but we evolved like other primates and all organisms on earth. When we share majority DNA with Chimps (while I believe it is coded differently maybe) we cannot say we are not animals. Actually you are wrong to say that my statement would not expect better thought or behavior. Evolution caused our brain size to grow therefore allowing us sentient thought, intense emotion, the ability to empathize etc.

Reason and Faith are gifts from God. The mechanism of evolving a frontal lobe for cognitive reasoning does not preclude the gifts from God that animals do not possess. God gives us a soul, animals do not possess a soul. Animals act soley on instinct. Humanity is expected to act with reason and thought. When we abandon reason and thought to become animals we deny what it means to be human. To compare our behavior with animals, to draw comparison and equivalence between humanity and animals is a way of suggesting that we are nothing more than animals. I am not an animal, I am created in the image of God, I possess certain aspects that are gifted to me from God such as my reason and my spirit.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I have looked at some information online regarding animal behaviour and homosexuality.

I assume, and correct me if I am wrong, but that the behaviour described by cows and dogs in my previous post would be presumed to be evidence of homosexuality amongst animals, but there are reasons why they behave that way described in the previous post. The question is, is there proof of same gender attraction between animals that goes beyond any other explanation of behaviour. I am not a scientist but I don’t see how that could be proven.

I am not a scientist either, Abyssinia, but I agree with you…I don’t see how that could be proven.

The point was made:

Originally Posted by frobert View Post

** Homosexuality has been observed and documented across numerous species strongly suggests that it has a purpose**.

It’s suggestive, not conclusive.

We have all seen the “animals do it” argument from the gay activists. They are promoting acceptance by claiming that homosexuality is rampant within the animal kingdom, therefore it must be accepted as “natural”. This has been debunked over and over.

While it is true that thousands of species do “hump” one another. I cannot understand why any self respecting homosexual would want to lower their form of sexual expression (love?) to the behavior of animals.

But here is a new twist to the argument…

frobert suggests that there exists a PURPOSE for this behavior.

Now this could be a real plus for the gay activist community. If science can find a purpose for animal homosexual behavior they will be a step closer to demanding acceptance of human homosexual behavior as normal.

frobert is cautious. He admits that this is “suggestive, not conclusive.” But you can be sure that right now there are hundreds of gay veterinarians, biologists, and dog groomers studying the behavior of every cat, rat, elephant and unicorn to find this "purpose".

The trouble is …the purpose actually exists but it is not what the gay community would need to prove “their purpose”.

According to Raoul, my dog whisperer, : “A dog mounts other dogs, people, cats, pillows or what have you, because they are horny idiots.” He should know. He trains dogs.
He goes on: "These are animals, they don’t care what the hell they try to mount as long as they can mount something. They do this because they are dogs, displaying similar intelligences as some humans do after a night of drinking. Didn’t you ever wonder where, why and how that saying came about, ’ He’s a real dog ’ ? "

So what is the purpose?

Every “expert” has an idea. Some say the purpose is to dominate. Some agree with Raoul and some say it relieves stress. Charles Darwin said it had to do with pleasure. Raoul agrees: “Yeah…it feels good…that’s the purpose.”

Let’s say we find a deeper purpose. Maybe animal homosexual behavior is done to reduce population. Food sources drying up…over population of a certain species…and they revert to homosexuality to reduce the birth rate. That COULD be a legitimate “purpose”.

So relating that theory to the human race we can say that homosexuals engage in homosexual sex for the purpose of controlling the human population.

This could be a very good thing.

You see, liberals support abortion and are very tolerant towards gays and their lifestyle. The vast majority of gays are liberal. So if we have homosexuals reducing the population via their sexual conduct and straight liberals aborting their unborn…soon there will be fewer gays and liberals. Now there is a real PURPOSE.

 

[andrewstx]

Why the debate? Homosexuals have no interest in faithful monogamous marriage to begin with. Not making this up. I speak from experience.

I have SSA, and this is the first time I have admitted it at risk to myself. I tried the homosexual life for a short time to my great regret. I have been chaste for years now.

What gays are interested in, nearly solely is the next orgasm and very little else. All or most all is trivial to them, they have no interest in relationships at all. In fact a commonly heard expression is “I have had him, now time to move on”.

Their interests are physical only. If you are not skinny, hairless, and interested in drugs, the next conquest in an endless chain, and killing yourself with stinking suicidal stink sticks (ie ciggarettes), you should not even try.

I absolutely HATE the homosexual life. And I am glad I got out of it as quick as I could.

Got to admit, though I am not effeminate at all. People in many parishes will treat you like dirt. Just because you are not married and have children. It really becomes depressing.

“Gay marriage” please don’t make me laugh.

I did not choose SSA, and I can do nothing to become married to a woman. But please don’t hate or avoid me because of it either.

 

[Nacho45]

That is an extremely impressive observation.

Now would you believe me if I told you the purpose of homosexuality in nature? I don’t think so. So I won’t tell you, but that should not stop you from doing your own research. But I don’t think you will.

No? Very well. I likely would not agree, but it’s interesting someone now thinks there is a viable purpose, but won’t share for scrutiny.

 

[Nacho45]

I read on this forum or elsewhere online or on the television that sometimes cows mount other cows, which is sign that cow is coming into estrus. It does not follow that the cow is showing lesbianism. But what that be considered homosexual behaviour?

There may be other reasons that a cow would show behaviour like that towards another cow of the same gender.

petfinder.com/dogs/dog-problems/stopping-dog-humping/

Isn’t it true that for the behaviours described above among dogs and cows could be seen as portraying homosexual behaviour because of behaviour they are portraying towards another animal of the same gender, but how can it be proven that an animal portraying a certain behaviour towards an animal of the same gender is not because of social dominance for example, but because of a more purely homosexual reason?

It wouldn’t fit into a preconceived paradigm in a feverish attempt to prove something which is not true.

 

[SMGS127]

Why the debate? Homosexuals have no interest in faithful monogamous marriage to begin with. Not making this up. I speak from experience.

I have SSA, and this is the first time I have admitted it at risk to myself. I tried the homosexual life for a short time to my great regret. I have been chaste for years now.

What gays are interested in, nearly solely is the next orgasm and very little else. All or most all is trivial to them, they have no interest in relationships at all. In fact a commonly heard expression is “I have had him, now time to move on”.

Their interests are physical only. If you are not skinny, hairless, and interested in drugs, the next conquest in an endless chain, and killing yourself with stinking suicidal stink sticks (ie ciggarettes), you should not even try.

I absolutely HATE the homosexual life. And I am glad I got out of it as quick as I could.

Got to admit, though I am not effeminate at all. People in many parishes will treat you like dirt. Just because you are not married and have children. It really becomes depressing.

“Gay marriage” please don’t make me laugh.

I did not choose SSA, and I can do nothing to become married to a woman. But please don’t hate or avoid me because of it either.

Where on Earth do you live?

I’ve been in LGBT communities in multiple states for over 5 years before becoming Catholic; I have never once seen anything you’re describing outside of gross nightclubs. Are you sure you’re talking about gays in general and not the nightclub scene? The nightclub scene is pretty bad, which is why most gay people avoid it…(and why most straight people avoid their own nightclub scene).

pewsocialtrends.org/2013/06/13/a-survey-of-lgbt-americans/5/#chapter-4-marriage-and-parenting

56% of gay men and 54% of lesbians reported wanting to be married some day, while 4% of gay men and 6% of lesbians reported already being married.

 

[andrewstx]

I live near the NM-Texas border, and “gay” bars are the only thing homosexual to exist in this area.

BUT I have been in places like SF, Kansas City and Dallas where these social clubs exist and it is the same all over.

When you say ‘married’ you can not mean closed relationship faithful ‘marriage’. I know such a couple in the Bay Area who were even ‘married’ in SF city hall. They sleep apart and have since even before the ‘marriage’, they too are looking only for the next orgasm with a new face and a new p*****.

 

[Nacho45]

A homosexual inclination is not a compulsion to engage in sex acts with another person. That desire exists, as it does, analogously, for a heterosexual person. I agree entirely that it is possible that the inclination arises at least in part as you speculate. But this does not create license to engage in genital acts.

Indeed! There are many inclinations all people have, myself included, but I do my very best to not follow those inclinations to a fleshly result because they are simply wrong. There is no excuse and we are all held accountable for the choices we make. Seeking out an imaginary reason to quiet the voices of reason and make us feel better about our sin is not productive and in the end causes serious damage to us.

 

[Nacho45]

My dear friend I say we are animals that does not deny a god or plan but we evolved like other primates and all organisms on earth. When we share majority DNA with Chimps (while I believe it is coded differently maybe) we cannot say we are not animals. Actually you are wrong to say that my statement would not expect better thought or behavior. Evolution caused our brain size to grow therefore allowing us sentient thought, intense emotion, the ability to empathize etc.

We are actually closer of orangutans than chimps. We also are 94% identical to rats and plants have a more complicated code than animals. What’s does it all mean? Nothing.

 

[Nacho45]

Where on Earth do you live?

I’ve been in LGBT communities in multiple states for over 5 years before becoming Catholic; I have never once seen anything you’re describing outside of gross nightclubs. Are you sure you’re talking about gays in general and not the nightclub scene? The nightclub scene is pretty bad, which is why most gay people avoid it…(and why most straight people avoid their own nightclub scene).

pewsocialtrends.org/2013/06/13/a-survey-of-lgbt-americans/5/#chapter-4-marriage-and-parenting

56% of gay men and 54% of lesbians reported wanting to be married some day, while 4% of gay men and 6% of lesbians reported already being married.

His experience is not rare. I have spoken to several homosexuals, even those who are actively living that lifestyle, and they express the same experiences. One in particular with whom I am very close despises that world and speaks vehemently against it.

 

[SMGS127]

I live near the NM-Texas border, and “gay” bars are the only thing homosexual to exist in this area.

BUT I have been in places like SF, Kansas City and Dallas where these social clubs exist and it is the same all over.

When you say ‘married’ you can not mean closed relationship faithful ‘marriage’. I know such a couple in the Bay Area who were even ‘married’ in SF city hall. They sleep apart and have since even before the ‘marriage’, they too are looking only for the next orgasm with a new face and a new p*****.

.

You went to the Oak Lawn area (but NOT the gay bars at Cedar Springs) in Dallas, and you saw this? Literally the only thing I recognized from your post was the tobacco usage. That is unfortunately extraordinarily pervasive in the community due to the stress of being gay in America.

And yes, by married, I mean gays and lesbians who have committed monogamously to each other. I have known many, many, many couples who have gotten legally married and who are very committed to each other. I have not known a single one who has gotten married for any other reason.

Again, are you sure you weren’t just led by a bad crowd? You sound like you experienced the life of one of my friends from high school, who jumped around with the same gang of people to all of the “white” parties for sex and drugs.

Also, what do you mean by “social clubs?” This is what I’m not understanding. If you mean support groups, I was in Dallas for years and never saw this anywhere (although I did hear about it happening at a singular gay nightclub that women weren’t allowed in, and that my “white party” friend attended frequently).

His experience is not rare. I have spoken to several homosexuals, even those who are actively living that lifestyle, and they express the same experiences. One in particular with whom I am very close despises that world and speaks vehemently against it.

Yes, I despise those communities too. But they’re not a huge proportion of the gay community; I’d say they probably make the same percentage as the “sex, drugs, and rock” heterosexual crowd. It’s all about what communities, clubs, groups, etc. you go to. Andrew sounds like he was unfortunately led by a dangerous group of people.

I mean, as (assumedly) a heterosexual, wouldn’t you expect different straight clubs & bars to have different reputations for what to expect there? Some are known for hookups & drugs (those clubs with the dance floor taking up 90% of the club), others are known for committed dating (casual bars), others are known for casual friends (stuff like Buffalo Wild Wings).

 

[Nacho45]

.

You went to the Oak Lawn area (but NOT the gay bars at Cedar Springs) in Dallas, and you saw this? Literally the only thing I recognized from your post was the tobacco usage. That is unfortunately extraordinarily pervasive in the community due to the stress of being gay in America.

And yes, by married, I mean gays and lesbians who have committed monogamously to each other. I have known many, many, many couples who have gotten legally married and who are very committed to each other. I have not known a single one who has gotten married for any other reason.

Again, are you sure you weren’t just led by a bad crowd? You sound like you experienced the life of one of my friends from high school, who jumped around with the same gang of people to all of the “white” parties for sex and drugs.

Also, what do you mean by “social clubs?” This is what I’m not understanding. If you mean support groups, I was in Dallas for years and never saw this anywhere (although I did hear about it happening at a singular gay nightclub that women weren’t allowed in, and that my “white party” friend attended frequently).

Yes, I despise those communities too. But they’re not a huge proportion of the gay community; I’d say they probably make the same percentage as the “sex, drugs, and rock” heterosexual crowd. It’s all about what communities, clubs, groups, etc. you go to. Andrew sounds like he was unfortunately led by a dangerous group of people.

I mean, as (assumedly) a heterosexual, wouldn’t you expect different straight clubs & bars to have different reputations for what to expect there? Some are known for hookups & drugs (those clubs with the dance floor taking up 90% of the club), others are known for committed dating (casual bars), others are known for casual friends (stuff like Buffalo Wild Wings).

I can only speak to that which was told to me. They are from various places from across the country and internationally. It seems that type of community is more prevalent than people want to be known. That or they each lied to me, which seems unlikely.

 

[SMGS127]

I can only speak to that which was told to me. They are from various places from across the country and internationally. It seems that type of community is more prevalent than people want to be known. That or they each lied to me, which seems unlikely.

Nothing in your post indicated anything about prevalence. The sex and drugs crowd is KNOWN to almost every gay person, just as almost every straight person knows OF a heterosexual sex and drugs crowd. That doesn’t mean it’s prevalent.

 

[Nacho45]

Nothing in your post indicated anything about prevalence. The sex and drugs crowd is KNOWN to almost every gay person, just as almost every straight person knows OF a heterosexual sex and drugs crowd. That doesn’t mean it’s prevalent.

You are assuming these folks were part of the drugs and sex crowd.

 

[andrewstx]

Nothing in your post indicated anything about prevalence. The sex and drugs crowd is KNOWN to almost every gay person, just as almost every straight person knows OF a heterosexual sex and drugs crowd. That doesn’t mean it’s prevalent.

I spent much more time in the Bay Area, San Francisco than the ‘gayborhood’ of Dallas. With men I ‘met’ on the computer.

When you live in a small town you do what you THINK you have to. I was sorely mistaken by the ‘gay’ world, but not for long.

I was in two bars in the Cedar Springs area, neither of them had dance floors. The hidden door and the Dallas Eagle where their were no women.

Drugs were everywhere especially marijuana which was taken for granted as normal. And of course cigaretttes. Not normal for me. I actually witnessed men having relations right there in the Eagle!

And of course the ‘gay paradise’ of SF was even worse.

NO THANKS!

I still insist that homosexuals are interested in only one thing, the next conquest. I think based on evidence that they are selfish, stereotyping, and not interested in anyone but their own selves. Rejected by their own families, by each other and by themselves they die lonely, bitter deaths.

 

[SMGS127]

I spent much more time in the Bay Area, San Francisco than the ‘gayborhood’ of Dallas. With men I ‘met’ on the computer.

When you live in a small town you do what you THINK you have to. I was sorely mistaken by the ‘gay’ world, but not for long.

I was in two bars in the Cedar Springs area, neither of them had dance floors. The hidden door and the Dallas Eagle where their were no women.

Drugs were everywhere especially marijuana which was taken for granted as normal. And of course cigaretttes. Not normal for me. I actually witnessed men having relations right there in the Eagle!

Well yeah, the Cedar Springs area is the sex and drug area of the Gayborhood…hence why I specifically asked if you’d been anywhere other than that street.

And of course the ‘gay paradise’ of SF was even worse.

I wouldn’t know, but if it’s indicative from your experiences in Dallas, I’d say you were misled by those you trusted. Hopefully you can understand that men you met online are going to be very different from most gays?

I still insist that homosexuals are interested in only one thing, the next conquest. I think based on evidence that they are selfish, stereotyping, and not interested in anyone but their own selves. Rejected by their own families, by each other and by themselves they die lonely, bitter deaths.

I’m sorry you feel that way. As a lesbian myself, I would never seek that ever, and I know very, very few people like that from my days in the gay community. Behavior like that is attacked constantly in the real gay & lesbian community; Shane on The L Word is a prime example of this, where her promiscuity and inability to settle are portrayed as extremely negative qualities of her character. It saddens me that your only experience of the community was the hard drug scene; this is not indicative of most gays .

 

[andrewstx]

Well yeah, the Cedar Springs area is the sex and drug area of the Gayborhood…hence why I specifically asked if you’d been anywhere other than that street.

I wouldn’t know, but if it’s indicative from your experiences in Dallas, I’d say you were misled by those you trusted. Hopefully you can understand that men you met online are going to be very different from most gays?

I’m sorry you feel that way. As a lesbian myself, I would never seek that ever, and I know very, very few people like that from my days in the gay community. Behavior like that is attacked constantly in the real gay & lesbian community; Shane on The L Word is a prime example of this, where her promiscuity and inability to settle are portrayed as extremely negative qualities of her character. It saddens me that your only experience of the community was the hard drug scene; this is not indicative of most gays .

I am aware that women are more spiritual and less inclined to be physically oriented than men.

But I would think you would be happy for me, since I am chaste and living as the church says I should.

I just don’t understand why you would try and lure me back into an immoral life, and a miserable life.

To put it bluntly I have no further interest in leading a sinful and immoral life.

 

[Rau]

…
I still insist that homosexuals are interested in only one thing, the next conquest. I think based on evidence that they are selfish, stereotyping, and not interested in anyone but their own selves. Rejected by their own families, by each other and by themselves they die lonely, bitter deaths.

I’m not sure whether you are referring to all who experience an exclusive same sex attraction, or just those who are participants in same sex sexual relations. But either way, that’s quite a generalisation and held with extraordinary conviction!

Do you exclude from your description persons who have lived long and monogamous homosexual relationships, like the former Australian High Court judge and one-time president of the International Commission of Jurists, Justice Michael Kirby, who has had a single partner since 1969?

And, surely you exclude those persons who struggle with homosexual attractions and strive to live a chaste life?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

SMGS,

I think you might want to consider whether the gay male crowd really has anything to do with the lesbian crowd. I say this, in part, because of an experience I had about two months ago, which I hesitate to relate, but here goes…

As you know, I’m committed to be faithful to my marriage, and to avoid sexual sin. In an effort to do this, I have put strict filters on my computer, and done various other things to make the near occasion of sin very far away. But we can’t entirely remove the possibility of sin, and this is where my recent story comes in…

I live in a large metropolitan area – you know which one, but I’m going to keep it unspoken right now. Years ago, I visited a local gay bookstore a number of times, not for any wholesome reason whatsoever, but simply out of sinful curiosity. The bookstore is right in the middle of the “downtown” area of a prominent suburb, in a location where it couldn’t possibly be missed. The store markets itself as mainstream and accessible, and doesn’t even have a sign that children should not enter. It’s really the most logical place for a young person interested in homosexuality to step inside, if they’re curious about being gay.

Despite all this, one large portion of the store is set aside for gay porn magazines. (And of course, the rest of the store is a feast of R-rated flesh, too). To my shame, this is the portion of the store I was headed toward when I stupidly visited the place two months ago.

But here’s the disturbing part. When I walked up to the magazines, there were two older men there, browsing. Shortly after I stopped to pick up a magazine, the two men started grabbing their crotches, and then doing more – directly in the sight of the man who worked at the store. I was a bit taken aback, and high-tailed it out of there. (I’d been coming for sin, sure, but not to be sexually harassed!).

For my part, I just don’t see how this experience cannot reflect very badly on ordinary gay men. At the very least, no one has put a stop to this, and the store is right in the middle of the largest gay community in my metro area. I just don’t understand it. Perhaps it is just a matter of good gay men remaining silent, but I’m afraid it speaks to something more sinister.

I’ll tell you this: if I were “out and proud”, I sure as hell would be unbelievably embarrassed by the things that the gay male community considers acceptable. Maybe it’s just the older generation of gay men that is the problem – but whatever it is, there is a problem.

 

[SMGS127]

I am aware that women are more spiritual and less inclined to be physically oriented than men.

But I would think you would be happy for me, since I am chaste and living as the church says I should.

I am very happy for you!!! Don’t take my posts the wrong way!

I just don’t understand why you would try and lure me back into an immoral life, and a miserable life.

I’m not trying to convince you to go after men again; that is the absolute last thing I want. I assent to Church teaching that same-sex sexual activity is sinful.

To put it bluntly I have no further interest in leading a sinful and immoral life.

Good for you!

I was just trying to point out that most actively gay people do not experience what you experienced. You were led into the worst part of the gay community and kept there. I actually know the bar you told me about in Dallas (which is why I asked hopefully if you had been in the Gayberhood outside Cedar Springs), and I’ve heard horrible things about it, but it isn’t what most people experience.

I just don’t want you to have an unfair negative attitude towards those who are actively gay, because you experienced the worst of the worst of the community (similar to a straight person visiting a hardcore BDSM club and thinking that it represented all heterosexual activity).