Gay Marriage Debate

[shelby_sun]

Guess who else condemns peoples’ behavior? JESUS!

Jesus was clear that while he spoke of great mercy, forgiveness and salvation, mankind should be freed of sin through our own endeavors. What did he tell the woman caught in adultery? Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. What did he tell the woman at the well? You have been with seven men, and none of them is your husband. What did he tell the Scribes and Pharisees? O brood of vipers, O ye hard of heart.

Our Lord had strong words for sinners, there is no doubt of that. The Gospel is a message of repentance. We all work in preparation for the Final Judgement, which will be presided by JESUS, Our Lord and King. The Gospel of Marriage is a Gospel of Love, it reflects the eternal love of the Holy Trinity, not depraved and debased lust such as is present in homosexual relations or other infertile sodomy.

Our Lord entrusted the Keys of Heaven to His Church. She is entrusted with the power and authority to interpret the Word of God, which she does, unfailingly until the end of days, and so we can know with absolute surety that homosexual acts are an abomination unto the Lord.

Well you just said Jesus condemns then you said Jesus told the women neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. Which not condemning but guiding.It is all how you chose to read it and you seem to want to be condemning.

Sorry but the church has failed int he past. They once condoned the ownership pf slaves. The Church grows as time goes on learning what God wants from us. You can not think the church and what it teaches is exactly like when it started. That is just naive.

Many heterosexual acts are abominations also. Do you speak in such a dramatic way about those acts.

 

[theCrow]

Guess who else condemns peoples’ behavior? JESUS!

She is entrusted with the power and authority to interpret the Word of God, which she does, unfailingly until the end of days, and so we can know with absolute surety that homosexual acts are an abomination unto the Lord.

You do realize this is EXACTLY the illogical reasoning that the Westboro church uses to justify their hatred towards gay people.

I ask you, what if 2 celibate homosexuals are holding hands or just holding or kissing each other. Are these acts an abomination? I believe God is Love and therefore ALL acts of love are pure and good. This is why the culture is changing. We realize we have gay brothers and sisters, and whom they fall in love is not an “abomination unto the Lord.”

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

But, this redefinition of marriage is simply an expansion of marriage, Within the expanded definition, the State will be continued by the majority who will continue to choose heterosexual union. It does absolutely nothing to impede the continuation of the State.

An expansion of marriage…I shudder to think of that connotation. Where will “expansion” end? Would it next include child marriages to pedophiles?

This is dangerous ground.

The state has the authority to enact the “rules of the road” to protect drivers. But it has no authority or power to change the laws of physics so that accidents will be less destructive.

The state assesses the pre-existing factors that influence safe driving – the age when most persons can handle the responsibility of driving, the effect of alcohol on drivers, the best way to construct roadways, maximum safe speeds – in order to create rules that best accord with these pre-existing realities.

The same should be true of marriage

 

[BklynTony]

I think you raise a very interesting point. I too believe that love of neighbor is above all what God want of us. Yet even Jesus , though He did not speak per se of Homosexuality, he did not turn a blind eye to the covenant of Marriage. It was Jesus that overruled Moses on Divorce. Jesus was adamant about a Man and a woman becoming one for all of their natural days on earth. He was not shy about making this a commandment for us to adhere to. Jesus say it was never the Fathers Plan for a man to divorce his spouse. Homosexuality is not of God’s plan and though He loves us all , in what ever state our lives are in at the moment, we are not walking with God but away from him and his divine plan. It is not God’s love for us that must be proven…but our love for God. And we do this by submitting to his will and ultimate plan to be with him for all eternity.
Hate the sin…love the sinner !

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

LET US SAY…

Two lesbians having been together for several years, get “married” in Hollywood California.
Later they complete the RCIA process and are welcomed into the Catholic Church. They are good parishioners and regularly attend Mass. Although they openly proclaim their homosexuality… they state that they are living together in chastity.
They sigh up for the next Married Couple’s Retreat and are told that they cannot attend because they are not a married couple…
They claim that the state of California says they are a married couple and they want to go on the retreat.

What do you suppose will happen when this is leaked to CNN?

 

[theCrow]

LET US SAY…

Two lesbians having been together for several years, get “married” in Hollywood California.
Later they complete the RCIA process and are welcomed into the Catholic Church. They are good parishioners and regularly attend Mass. Although they openly proclaim their homosexuality… they state that they are living together in chastity.
They sigh up for the next Married Couple’s Retreat and are told that they cannot attend because they are not a married couple…
They claim that the state of California says they are a married couple and they want to go on the retreat.

What do you suppose will happen when this is leaked to CNN?

Let us say…

this is a really bad “what if” kind of scenario. A “separate but equal” type of debate, eh?

First you say they are "welcomed into the Catholic Church and are good parishioners. They state they are living together in chastity. Legally they are married, but of course in the eyes of the church, there marriage is an abomination unto God…

Let me ask you, what do you think should happen? Should they be able to go on the retreat? Who are you to judge.

Of course, CNN would go crazy, just as this forum/foxnews would get into quite the uproar. What a loaded question. Please answer what you think should happen.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Let us say…

this is a really bad “what if” kind of scenario. A “separate but equal” type of debate, eh?

First you say they are "welcomed into the Catholic Church and are good parishioners. They state they are living together in chastity. Legally they are married, but of course in the eyes of the church, there marriage is an abomination unto God…

Let me ask you, what do you think should happen? Should they be able to go on the retreat? Who are you to judge.

Of course, CNN would go crazy, just as this forum/foxnews would get into quite the uproar. What a loaded question. Please answer what you think should happen.

I think it is an excellent question and the scenario it quite possible.

I have a pretty good idea of what will happen and I, of course, have an opinion of what should happen. (It was MY question after all) …But, come on now, Crow, I don’t want to spoil the discussion and give away the ending…YOU post an answer…if you dare…I asked first.

 

[Elizium23]

You do realize this is EXACTLY the illogical reasoning that the Westboro church uses to justify their hatred towards gay people.

I ask you, what if 2 celibate homosexuals are holding hands or just holding or kissing each other. Are these acts an abomination? I believe God is Love and therefore ALL acts of love are pure and good. This is why the culture is changing. We realize we have gay brothers and sisters, and whom they fall in love is not an “abomination unto the Lord.”

No, the Westboro “church” is not a Church and not even an ecclesial community, it’s a gaggle of lawyers looking for lawsuits. Their logic is: picket events and incite violence. Then sue the perpetrators of assault.

If two homosexuals are holding hands, holding each other, or kissing, then they are not celibate. They have not committed an abomination but they are in sin, and a near occasion to mortal sin.

The culture is changing because it has a death wish. The culture is morally corrupt and God’s plan is to have it destroy itself. It will do so neatly, just as others have throughout history. The Church will endure and remain until the End of Days.

 

[shelby_sun]

I think it is an excellent question and the scenario it quite possible.

I have a pretty good idea of what will happen and I, of course, have an opinion of what should happen. (It was MY question after all) …But, come on now, Crow, I don’t want to spoil the discussion and give away the ending…YOU post an answer…if you dare…I asked first.

Seriously? Did you just dare him? How old are you? Of course you have your opinion, but it doesn’t mean you are right.

We had a wonderful male gay couple living across the street from us, whether they were chaste was none of our business, just like my sex life was none of theirs. They were extremely pleasant, helping the elder widows, talking to neighbors, helping anyone who need it.

The very strict Catholics next door didn’t even acknowledge they existed and they stopped speaking to us because we associated with these men. Without thinking twice I would throw the so called God loving Catholics out of our neighborhood and keep the gay couple. They had more goodness, class, and decency then the one sitting in a Catholic church every Sunday. Apparently, more than you also.

 

[Nacho45]

Seriously? Did you just dare him? How old are you? Of course you have your opinion, but it doesn’t mean you are right.

We had a wonderful male gay couple living across the street from us, whether they were chaste was none of our business, just like my sex life was none of theirs. They were extremely pleasant, helping the elder widows, talking to neighbors, helping anyone who need it.

The very strict Catholics next door didn’t even acknowledge they existed and they stopped speaking to us because we associated with these men. Without thinking twice I would throw the so called God loving Catholics out of our neighborhood and keep the gay couple. They had more goodness, class, and decency then the one sitting in a Catholic church every Sunday. Apparently, more than you also.

Who is being judgemental now?

Perhaps they stopped talking with you because they realize you do not see this as what it really is, sin. Perhaps they didn’t speak to the homosexuals across the street because they did not want to get into a confrontation with them when the subject was mentioned because they knew they would speak a clear truth. Perhaps they realized their own weaknesses and chose to avoid direct offense and focus on their personal lives, as you seem to suggest everyone should do. Or, maybe they are just picky about who they associate with to prevent scandal. Who knows? I don’t.

 

[Nacho45]

Let us say…

**this is a really bad “what if” kind of scenario. ** A “separate but equal” type of debate, eh?

First you say they are "welcomed into the Catholic Church and are good parishioners. They state they are living together in chastity. Legally they are married, but of course in the eyes of the church, there marriage is an abomination unto God…

Let me ask you, what do you think should happen? Should they be able to go on the retreat? Who are you to judge.

Of course, CNN would go crazy, just as this forum/foxnews would get into quite the uproar. What a loaded question. Please answer what you think should happen.

I disagree. I find it not only a plausable scenario, but a likely scenario we are certain to find in the near future.

The secular world which lives deep in their sins will rally against the Church for doing what is right. The Church will stand its ground and refuse to conform to a fallen world.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Seriously? Did you just dare him? How old are you? Of course you have your opinion, but it doesn’t mean you are right.

No, Shelby. I didn’t dare him. I was just pointing out simple etiquette. “You don’t answer a question with a question”.

How old am I?

I am old enough to use the computer without my parent’s permission.

and…

What do you mean…I am not right???

 

[shelby_sun]

Who is being judgemental now?

Perhaps they stopped talking with you because they realize you do not see this as what it really is, sin. Perhaps they didn’t speak to the homosexuals across the street because they did not want to get into a confrontation with them when the subject was mentioned because they knew they would speak a clear truth. Perhaps they realized their own weaknesses and chose to avoid direct offense and focus on their personal lives, as you seem to suggest everyone should do. Or, maybe they are just picky about who they associate with to prevent scandal. Who knows? I don’t.

That’s right you don’t know, but seeing as we have lived next to our neighbors for over 12 years and know many of the same people, I think I do know. Ironically, there is another male gay couple moving right next door to them. Maybe God is challenging them to treat others as they would like to be treated; however, they never seemed to so them before. They missed that Golden Rule.

 

[shelby_sun]

No, Shelby. I didn’t dare him. I was just pointing out simple etiquette. “You don’t answer a question with a question”.

How old am I?

I am old enough to use the computer without my parent’s permission.

and…

What do you mean…I am not right???

Well, you are quite the “rule” follower. I am not sure every culture follows your simple etiquette.

You may be right or I may be right, or neither of us maybe right. My point was that only God knows what is right and what the full truth is and we has living human beings cannot fully know it, see it or understand it.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Well, you are quite the “rule” follower. I am not sure every culture follows your simple etiquette.

I am sure there are some uncivilized cultures out there that do not follow any etiquette at all.

You may be right or I may be right, or neither of us maybe right. My point was that only God knows what is right and what the full truth is and we has living human beings cannot fully know it, see it or understand it.

God has clearly reviled what is right and what it wrong…where have you been?

 

[shelby_sun]

I am sure there are some uncivilized cultures out there that do not follow any etiquette at all.

God has clearly reviled what is right and what it wrong…where have you been?

Are you really so arrogant and disrespectful to God to think you know and understand everything God knows? God has reveal what he knows to flawed human beings. Maybe you should be the next Pope.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Are you really so arrogant and disrespectful to God to think you know and understand everything God knows? God has reveal what he knows to flawed human beings. Maybe you should be the next Pope.

No. I am not being disrespectful to God. Thanks to him I KNOW what is right and what is wrong.

God made me in His image and likeness…I don’t see any flaws…

You wouldn’t like it if I became the next Pope. I’m not looking for the job, but I am always open to God’s will.

 

[shelby_sun]

No. I am not being disrespectful to God. Thanks to him I KNOW what is right and what is wrong.

God made me in His image and likeness…I don’t see any flaws…

You wouldn’t like it if I became the next Pope. I’m not looking for the job, but I am always open to God’s will.

Well good for you!

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I disagree. I find it not only a plausable scenario, but a likely scenario we are certain to find in the near future.

The secular world which lives deep in their sins will rally against the Church for doing what is right. The Church will stand its ground and refuse to conform to a fallen world.

 

[BklynTony]

LET US SAY…

Two lesbians having been together for several years, get “married” in Hollywood California.
Later they complete the RCIA process and are welcomed into the Catholic Church. They are good parishioners and regularly attend Mass. Although they openly proclaim their homosexuality… they state that they are living together in chastity.
They sigh up for the next Married Couple’s Retreat and are told that they cannot attend because they are not a married couple…
They claim that the state of California says they are a married couple and they want to go on the retreat.

What do you suppose will happen when this is leaked to CNN?

Does not matter. State Laws and observances does not necessarily apply to out Faith and beliefs. Marriage Encounter is not a civil matter but a Religious retreat and renewal. One cannot renew what never was before.