"Gay 'marriage' doesnt hurt society"

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Religious freedom is taught, and is generally encouraged. It’s something that’s encouraged in society, and most children will be presented with new world views on a regular basis. Certainly where I live they teach ‘Religious Education’ which is essentially teaching children religious freedom. I also don’t believe it would lead to the teaching of gay rights in state schools. Why would it? And what on Earth would they be taught, anyway?

For the record, you’ve worded this quite oddly, as if homosexuality is a religion, which is quite funny.
OP Crimson Thorn’s wording makes sense except to atheists who do not acknowledge the light of religion. Although it is doubtful you would appreciate the reasoning, the bottom line is that homosexual sex is idolatry. Eloquently explained here.
Possibly, although many people already believe that now. It’s also true, to an extent, as we can change the definition of marriage at our own will. It’s only those who have some kind of spiritual or religious connection to marriage who believe otherwise, and in that case homosexual marriages are not really marriages to them. So what’s the problem?
I suppose we will have to wait for the day you open yourself to a spiritual or religious connection. The problem is confusion, unending and unresolved, tower-of-babel-like, the source of which is unholy.

According to your own view of morality and your own definitions of what is appropriate. Is it fair to force others to conform to Christian standards?
The important question we ask is which situation would men and women rather have for the world and children of the future, the encouragement of healthy and socially beneficial married heterosexual pairing, or the unhealthy, socially non-beneficial ‘married’ homosexual pairing of same sexes.
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The attack on Marriage, which is a Sacrament instituted by Christ, is not a sign of a stable society, but one of a society that is devolving. The only question remaining is: “into what?”
 
The important question we ask is which situation would men and women rather have for the world and children of the future, the encouragement of healthy and socially beneficial married heterosexual pairing, or the unhealthy, socially non-beneficial ‘married’ homosexual pairing of same sexes.
But it is socially beneficial. Life-long stable coupling is healthy and beneficial to the couple and to society. Having an ‘ideal’ and pattern, such as marriage, to follow is beneficial to both gay and straight alike. Lack of social support and recognition is unhealthy. Being told that one’s relationship is lesser than that of someone else even though it is identical in every way except in the ability to produce children is non-beneficial.
The attack on Marriage, which is a Sacrament instituted by Christ, is not a sign of a stable society, but one of a society that is devolving. The only question remaining is: “into what?”
From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
 
But it is socially beneficial. Life-long stable coupling is healthy and beneficial to the couple and to society. Having an ‘ideal’ and pattern, such as marriage, to follow is beneficial to both gay and straight alike. Lack of social support and recognition is unhealthy. Being told that one’s relationship is lesser than that of someone else even though it is identical in every way except in the ability to produce children is non-beneficial.
Its totally not identical in any way though.

For marriage to be valid it must:

Be consummated
Be unitive
Be open to life

SSM doesnt fulfill any of those, nor is it even capable of it. It is intrinsically the opposite of the above criteria. Therefore it isnt marriage. They should call theirs something else under their own criteria, but its not marriage. All they care about is the rights, so they should be ok with that.
From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
By giving the illusion that it is equal, it detracts from real marriage and blurs the lines. If we had a program that allowed Bestiality marriages, Polygamous Marriages, Incestous Marriages and also Gay Marriage under the same roof, would they be happy with that? Id say not, theyd feel as though the others detract from what they think is a marriage and cheapens the overall value. Theyd hate to be lumped in with the rest because the others being seen as equal to theirs would make it less viable. And thats what theyre doing to us.
 
From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
The devil is always in the details. “ME” (odd acronym, huh?) is about redefining God’s Sacrament of Marriage according to radically different ideas - ideas which have never produced a stable society, and can neither produce nor promote a stable society. All such efforts are an attempt to normalize abnormal behavior at the expense of society in general. ME forces changes in language, thinking, perception, definitions, legal practices, and many other aspects of a stable society. Forces. Think about that. What is fair about being forced?

Any male, regardless of sexual preference, can marry a woman. Any female, regardless of sexual preference, can marry a man. This applies to both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

That seems to have been overlooked. Never mind the fiscal cliff, we are rushing headlong toward the societal cliff.
 
But it is socially beneficial. Life-long stable coupling is healthy and beneficial to the couple and to society. Having an ‘ideal’ and pattern, such as marriage, to follow is beneficial to both gay and straight alike. Lack of social support and recognition is unhealthy. Being told that one’s relationship is lesser than that of someone else even though it is identical in every way except in the ability to produce children is non-beneficial.
This is simply not true. SSM is NOT “identical in every way” in fact it’s completely different. There is no complimentary nature in SSM, there is no Natural Law that would indicate humans are ordered toward SSM, from a biological point of view it is a dead end, children conceived unnaturally or adopted in a same sex pairing will be, by definition, denied a mother or a father…SUPREMELY selfish.

Further as Abyssinia noted previously, the LEGAL ramifications are devastating. Small businesses have been and will be sued for refusal to accept homosexual couples as equivalent to heterosexual married couples. Children will be forced to learn about issues that are unnecessary to their education.
From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
This too is utter baloney. Marriage, completely redefined, would not “be the same” for straight couples. If there is no point of reference the word “marriage” becomes anything the parties want it to be. We’ve already seen how no fault divorce has redefined marriage. No one thinks this is a positive result. Why demand the vast majority of normal couples accommodate a small minority’s selfish desires to not have their feelings hurt because we don’t see apples as oranges?

Lisa
 
But it is socially beneficial. Life-long stable coupling is healthy and beneficial to the couple and to society. Having an ‘ideal’ and pattern, such as marriage, to follow is beneficial to both gay and straight alike. Lack of social support and recognition is unhealthy. Being told that one’s relationship is lesser than that of someone else even though it is identical in every way except in the ability to produce children is non-beneficial.

From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
You argue against yourself here. “Identical” cannot have an exception to truly be identical.
 
Or so says my uncle.

What I explained was that gay marriage hurts society in many ways, being:

-Children being taught “gay rights” in public school (why not teach them religious freedom in general too then?)

-Future generations growing up with the idea that marriage can be anything, opening the gates to further future problems

-The imposing of the gay agenda onto Christians and the forcing of us to conform to their definition

-Only adds to the the further underpopulation of the world (hes a scientist and he insists that the earth is already overpopulated)

-The further desensitization and degradation of societys mentalities, whether gay or straight since its more than just gays who support gay marriage

Am I leaving anything out? And correct me if Im wrong at all too. Thanks.
  1. A propaganda plan is currently in place to change young hearts and minds, and it appears, any damage done is either not considered or seen as inconsequential.
amazon.com/King-Linda-Haan/dp/1582460612

amazon.com/Daddy-Papa-Me-Lesl%C3%A9a-Newman/dp/1582462623/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356566938&sr=1-2&keywords=daddy+poppa+me
  1. It’s called Diversity Day but it’s definitely tilted toward homosexuals persons. Plans are being made to take it further than its current form where little kids are exposed to their teacher’s partner.
amazon.com/Beyond-Diversity-Day-Curriculum-Sexualities/dp/0742520331/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356567060&sr=1-1&keywords=beyond+diversity+day

This is called Indoctrination.
  1. As one in authority in the Church said, 'This is not about tolerance but full acceptance."
    Not of gays as they are, which we all should accept, but gay sexual behavior under whatever label you choose. Of course, the strategy there is to also be vague by withholding certain words and replacing them with others:
Commitment Ceremony
Domestic Partnership
Civil Union
  1. There was a little meeting held this year where pedophiles quietly changed their name to “minor-attracted persons.” They hope to have some (name removed by moderator)ut into changes in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that is used by the American Psychiatric Association.
The military invents vague and neutral terms that tell us little or nothing. Examples:
Casualties
Depopulate
Neutralize

Which all sounds better than we killed a lot of people and some of our people got killed too.

That is Desensitization at work.
  1. Depopulation? That’s nonsense. Gays who have been engaging in sexual behavior in the past will continue in the future, regardless of the classification they are under.
This is a social engineering experiment. The Church tells us it is contrary to biology, right reason and the natural order. The only way we’re going to get a healthy next generation will be by lawfully uniting one man and one woman in a committed lifetime relationship. This is an attempt to infringe on the rights of parents by having their children force-fed this propaganda at schools at taxpayer expense.

But don’t worry about it. Just keep repeating the truth. And prayer does work.

Peace,
Ed
 
But it is socially beneficial. Life-long stable coupling is healthy and beneficial to the couple and to society. Having an ‘ideal’ and pattern, such as marriage, to follow is beneficial to both gay and straight alike. Lack of social support and recognition is unhealthy. Being told that one’s relationship is lesser than that of someone else even though it is identical in every way except in the ability to produce children is non-beneficial.

From what I know about the average marriage equality advocate, marriage would remain the same as it always was for straight couples. No marriages would be attacked or invalidated.
“marriage equality”

Man + Man
Woman + Woman does not equal
Man + Woman

Allow me to quote from the Editorial page of The Detroit News, the champion of all liberal ‘causes,’ regardless.

Under the title, “Founders assumed a moral people,” the Editorial Page Editor, Nolan Finley, writes, in part, and in closing: “We can’t have the country envisioned by the Founders when they wrote the Constitution unless we again become the self-reliant, responsible, moral people that document was written for.”

The Detroit News, Sunday, October 24, 2010, page 31A.

Peace,
Ed
 
By giving the illusion that it is equal, it detracts from real marriage and blurs the lines. If we had a program that allowed Bestiality marriages, Polygamous Marriages, Incestous Marriages and also Gay Marriage under the same roof, would they be happy with that?
Gay marriage isn’t bestiality, incest, nor polygamy. One shouldn’t conflate them.
The devil is always in the details. “ME” (odd acronym, huh?) is about redefining God’s Sacrament of Marriage according to radically different ideas - ideas which have never produced a stable society, and can neither produce nor promote a stable society.
There are many things that promote a stable society, marriage is but one of them. How are two non-related, consenting adults of legal age making a commitment to each other in marriage less stable than not doing so? Married is more stable than unmarried.
You argue against yourself here. “Identical” cannot have an exception to truly be identical.
That’s why I used the word except. There are more similarities than differences, therefore it is simpler (and completely acceptable) to list the one difference using the word ‘except’ than list all the commonalities and omit the difference.
 
Gay marriage isn’t bestiality, incest, nor polygamy. One shouldn’t conflate them.
Yes, but here’s the rub: changing marriage to mean anything people want it to mean is not good.

People who support gay marriage generally do not support polygamy or marriage to children or animals.

But they cannot provide good reasons why.

These people are lucky, because there is currently no big cultural push from people who wish to do so.

But if there was, what would they say? How could they argue not to change marriage again?

I understand that gay marriage is not bestiality or pedophilia. But if people want to legalize one and not the other, they have to realize it is pretty arbitrary.
 
Gay marriage isn’t bestiality, incest, nor polygamy. One shouldn’t conflate them.

There are many things that promote a stable society, marriage is but one of them. How are two non-related, consenting adults of legal age making a commitment to each other in marriage less stable than not doing so? Married is more stable than unmarried.

That’s why I used the word except. There are more similarities than differences, therefore it is simpler (and completely acceptable) to list the one difference using the word ‘except’ than list all the commonalities and omit the difference.
Yes but you see your entire argument speaks against itself. First you claim SSM is identical to traditional man/woman marriage. When that theory is blown up you qualify your terminology but then you lose that part of the argument.

Further then you launch into a bunch of assumptions about SSM that makes it different than some of the other alternative lifestyles such as incest, bestiality or plural marriage. The whole theory is that it’s all about love and being able to marry whom (or what) you love. But if you open marriage to two homosexuals, why is it any different than opening up the term to cover any sort of commitment of any group of people? Why only two people for this version of marriage? Why must they be unrelated? You see, you keep trying to put a square peg into a round hole and when it cannot fit, you complain that the round hole doesn’t have the necessary corners.

There is no consistent, rational argument for SSM. There are a bunch of vocal individuals who want what they want. That’s all. No one is stopping two individuals from making a commitment to each other. Just don’t pretend it’s something it is not.

Lisa
 
Quick quiz. Only one answer is allowed.

How do we get the next generation of human beings?

A) Man + Man

B) Woman + Woman

C) Man + Woman

Your answer represents 100% of your grade.

On a related note. Through TV reports and other means, we are led to believe that love is the issue. That there is a one to one relationship between gay marriage and heterosexual marriage. On TV, I saw two older women walk out after they got married somewhere. One of them said, “We’re equal now.”

We are also led to believe that gay persons who have waited years to get ‘married’ are indeed committed. Just give them the right to do so. But, there’s a problem.

abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/04/same-sex-couples-fight-to-divorce/

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2164783/One-gay-couples-married-New-York-set-to-divorced.html

Peace,
Ed
 
There are many things that promote a stable society, marriage is but one of them. How are two non-related, consenting adults of legal age making a commitment to each other in marriage less stable than not doing so? Married is more stable than unmarried.
Go into the industrial area of your town or city. Find a machine shop. Even an apprentice there can tell you what a marriage is. It is the mating of two complementary manufactured parts. Marriage was instituted by God. The ME movement seeks to usurp God’s authority over what God Himself has declared to be good and holy. There is one that hates all that is good and holy, and I guarantee you that he is behind the ME movement since before its inception. Those in the ME movement do not even know that they are sock puppets - let alone who is the unseen hand that manipulates them.

The ME movement is not about fairness, or societal equality, it is about destroying all that is good and holy, replacing it with that which is disordered and temporary. It will confuse and corrupt future generations (as it has the current generation), obscuring their natural sexuality in favor of unnatural, anti-evolutionary sexuality.
 
Or so says my uncle.

What I explained was that gay marriage hurts society in many ways, being:

-Children being taught “gay rights” in public school (why not teach them religious freedom in general too then?)

-Future generations growing up with the idea that marriage can be anything, opening the gates to further future problems

-The imposing of the gay agenda onto Christians and the forcing of us to conform to their definition

-Only adds to the the further underpopulation of the world (hes a scientist and he insists that the earth is already overpopulated)

-The further desensitization and degradation of societys mentalities, whether gay or straight since its more than just gays who support gay marriage

Am I leaving anything out? And correct me if Im wrong at all too. Thanks.
Actually, the issue does not hurt society at all. However, it hurts what you think society should be. And that is a world of difference. Naturally, you will have to keep the issue alive, to fight for what you think is “right”. The truth is that even a sizable percenatge of catholics disagrees with you. You should be aware that the fight is already lost, (just remember the fight against divorce) and all you will achieve is to further marginalize your position. Just think about it. 🤷
 
Yes, but here’s the rub: changing marriage to mean anything people want it to mean is not good.
That’s right. And no mainstream group wants to make it anything people want it to mean.
People who support gay marriage generally do not support polygamy or marriage to children or animals.

But they cannot provide good reasons why.
For starters, children and animals cannot enter into legal contracts. They never have, they never will. With respect to arguments against polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia traditional marriage’s dignity and strength is more than its compelling argument against those practices.
Yes but you see your entire argument speaks against itself. First you claim SSM is identical to traditional man/woman marriage. When that theory is blown up you qualify your terminology but then you lose that part of the argument…

There is no consistent, rational argument for SSM. There are a bunch of vocal individuals who want what they want. That’s all. No one is stopping two individuals from making a commitment to each other. Just don’t pretend it’s something it is not.
I find it interesting that there are challenges to qualifying what I say and challenges that I haven’t qualified enough. I don’t support free-for-all, wild marriages. I feel no need to defend against them as I do not see them as an imminent threat. It is true that no one is stopping two individuals from making a commitment to each other. However, the issue to some is that society and the state pretends it’s not something that it actually is. Please note that I did not use the word church or religion in my last sentence.
 
Actually, the issue does not hurt society at all. However, it hurts what you think society should be. And that is a world of difference. Naturally, you will have to keep the issue alive, to fight for what you think is “right”. The truth is that even a sizable percenatge of catholics disagrees with you. You should be aware that the fight is already lost, (just remember the fight against divorce) and all you will achieve is to further marginalize your position. Just think about it. 🤷
Uh no you are not correct. It is not what WE think society should be but what GOD ordained as society where human beings live in a state that is good. You make the mistake of worshipping the false god of public opinion (your chosen public) or those who disagree with the Church because they have fallen for the glamour of evil.

You are correct that the fight against easy divorce was lost. And how’s that workin out? Do we think that society is improved with broken homes, 72% of black babies born out of wedlock, huge increases in child abuse, abortion, and dysfunctional families.

Did it occur to you that the REASON God ordered society and human relations in a certain way was to “have life abundantly” rather than have a cheap imitation that sacrifices adults and children to the god of transient pleasures.

Lisa
 
That’s right. And no mainstream group wants to make it anything people want it to mean.

For starters, children and animals cannot enter into legal contracts. They never have, they never will. With respect to arguments against polygamy, bestiality, and pedophilia traditional marriage’s dignity and strength is more than its compelling argument against those practices.

I find it interesting that there are challenges to qualifying what I say and challenges that I haven’t qualified enough. I don’t support free-for-all, wild marriages. I feel no need to defend against them as I do not see them as an imminent threat. It is true that no one is stopping two individuals from making a commitment to each other. However, the issue to some is that society and the state pretends it’s not something that it actually is. Please note that I did not use the word church or religion in my last sentence.
You keep qualifying your answer to the limits YOU prescribe. What makes you think your limited view of “marriage” is any more legitimate than others promoting alternative lifestyles as marriage? You see when you self reference instead of looking to God or if you are not a believer, Natural Law…BIOLOGY anyone…you destroy the power of your own argument. Who died and made YOU king of the world to decide that plural marriage or group marriage or marriage between relatives or marriage between adults and children is any less normal than your personal crusade for SSM?

Again, nothing is stopping two (or three or ten) adults from entering into mutually beneficial contracts regarding finances, or children, or inheritances or property ownership or many of the other transactions engaged in. The demands to call non-traditional relationships “marriage” are simply a selfish desire to force everyone to pretend that Bob and Jim or Suzy and Sally have a relationship that is equivalent to a man and a woman. It’s not and calling it the same doesn’t make it so.

Lisa
 
They claim its equivalent to interracial marriage, so they want to teach how at a point in US history people were bigoted against it etc yadda yadda.
‘They’? Homosexuals are individuals, with their own minds. They don’t operate under a hive mind, and they’re not all telepathically linked. They each have their own view on certain situations, and I rather doubt that ‘they’ want this to happen. At any rate, I can’t see it happening, no matter who asks for it. It’s a silly idea.

Besides, it’s been opposed throughout most of Europe and beyond for centuries, so there’d be a lot of ground to cover.
This would hold more ground if homosexuals just called it something different. After all, its the rights theyre after not what its called. Secondly, by using the word Marriage that is dragging the religious aspect of it into this.
I agree with the first point you’ve made here. I myself do not understand why so many homosexuals want marriages in countries where they have the equivalent under a different name. Of course, religious folk don’t own marriage. It’s not a strictly religious institution.
Correct, we also dont have to pretend its something that its not. This is what all the heat is over. They dont understand that in order to make Oj you need oranges and they keep bringing apples. Theu yhould make Apple Juice instead, but they want us to accept that its equivalent to Orange Juice, when its self evident that it isnt.
Yeah, but I’ve already told you that I don’t see marriage as anything other than a legal arrangement, so I can’t really empathise with you there. As far as I’m concerned, we can change the definition at our own will. Having said that, since you feel so strongly about that while practising homosexuals, who generally aren’t religious, don’t, it does make me wonder why the majority won’t settle for marriage under a different name.
By not adding to it, theyre using resources and allowing populations to decline. Much like heterosexual couples who contracept. And dont forget its not just gays, its the infectious mentality that has spread that is dangerous.
Populations are still rising. I’m sure that I need not remind you that the majority of people on the Earth are heterosexual, and even though contraception is being used most people still want to have children and are still having them.
i’ve read in an unbiased study that the world is currently populated at 9 billion and perfectly capable of sustaining 37 billion. Id post the link but Im writing this thru my phone.
I said that I don’t believe in overpopulation, though I’d love to see this study. Just out of curiosity.
And thats not what were asking anyone to do. The term has a standard regardless of it being secular or religious it has an objective meaning.
I don’t agree, on the basis that marriage is not a physical entity but a man-made concept created purely for legal purposes. The definition has not always been the same. Even centuries ago, the definition of marriage would be remarkably different depending on where you were. All throughout history, some countries and cultures may have accepted polygamy, or interracial marriage, while others may not have. The age at which a person can marry remain different across nations even today.
If the DMV denies a drivers license to a blind man, should the blind man conform to the laws or should the DMV conform to the blind mans will and endanger the rest and even him? No one is forcing the blind man to drive.
That’s a bad analogy, since in such a case there is a very valid reason to deny the blind man a driving license. You’ve tried to link this concept of someone acquiring a driver’s license to the idea of marriage having an objective definition, and I don’t really see how the two situations are even similar.

You made a very valid point about homosexuals not being happy with marriage under a different name, though. I don’t really understand why an irreligious person would care about what their partnership is called.
 
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